Fritz's Fav Fictional Figures Faction Fest - Game over

[Sarcastro]

Role fishing is trying to find out someone else's role. You wanted him to claim, and thus know his role. Thus, you were role fishing.

No, it's not. It's really really really not. Please stop saying it is, because it's not.

Actually, no, let's say it is. Asking for a claim is now rolefishing. Well guess what?

By that definition, rolefishing is no longer scummy!

You cannot change the meaning of something and then assert things about the new meaning based solely on observations about the old meaning. That's like asserting that computers are alive because "computer" used to refer to a person who computed things.

You're clearly just arguing this bizarre definition because you can't think of a real reason for why my behaviour is scummy.

You're smarter than this, Yagami. If there's no reason for scum to be more likely to do something than town,

it's not a scumtell

.

[Mastermind of Sin]

By the way, YagamiLight is totally wrong that asking someone to claim is rolefishing, at least somewhat. Rolefishing is what Sarc said it was. Trying to subtly get hints about their role without actually getting them to claim. Asking someone to claim is "rolefishing" by definition, but it doesn't fall under the "rolefishing" scumtell that YagamiLight is trying to apply to Sarc here.

[Sarcastro]

Hey, MoS, how about you show your support by helping me lynch Blight?

[YagamiLight]

I'm not saying role-fishing is scummy, especially based on the definition I always thought of. It's how and when your role fish that determines if it's scummy to me. Asking for a claim so with so few votes is a scummy form of rolefishing imo, because, as I've said, I only see reason for scum to do so.

[Blight]

What do you mean why don't people do it? It is done, scum role fish to find power roles.

Yes, they do. The only problem is that

I wasn't rolefishing

.

Just for the record, I never rolefish as scum (or town, obviously). My personal philosophy for playing scum is to always act as much like I would as town as is possible (with obvious exceptions, such as hammering townies in LyLo). I defy you to find a single example of me rolefishing. Yes, I know, it's not really proof of anything, but I figured I should tell you all the same.

The only reason I seem to be repeating myself is because you don't seem to get it. Like Yagami said, you

were

role-fishing. Call me stupid or retarded all you'd like, but continuously denying something that you

obviously

did is just making you look dumb, not me.

There's a difference between adding more reasons that someone you're voting is scummy and inventing justifications for a previous vote. I'm doing the former; you're doing the latter.

You didn't give

any

reason when you voted for me. On the other hand, I gave

three

reasons when I voted for you...but you still think I voted for you before giving a reason?

Second off, the whole post seemed more like you defending yourself than creating an arguement against me. Actually, the majority of your more thought out posts seem to be when you're defending yourself rather than building a case against someone else.

No, really? I seemed like I was defending myself? Maybe that's because I

was

. But part of my defense includes pointing out that all of your attacks are self-serving nonsense.

My point is you haven't made any substance-filled post unless you're defending yourself. All, or at least most, of your votes against someone have lacked any explanation other than bandwagoning. I'm not surprised at this point that you missed the point, though.

Thirdly, when did I mischaracterize you? You

were

fishing for a claim. Whether you call it "role-fishing" or "blatantly demanding a claim" doesn't matter. You wanted me to claim. You never made it clear why I was scum, and you even admitted that. And you have been jumping on any and every BW. So, I ask again, how did I mischaracterize you?

Okay, I'm not going over this again, because you're just being wilfully stupid at this point. I've explained what I was doing multiple times, and you're just ignoring me. Go read my posts. If you don't believe me, fine, but don't act like I haven't addressed this multiple times.

Sigh, let me quote it again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

And again, in case you missed it the last couple times.

Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim.

How am I putting words in your mouth, again?

Oh sweet zombie Jesus, there are so many sarcastic barbs that come to mind. How about this: you're putting words in my mouth

by interpreting the sentence in an absolutely retarded way

. At this point, I'm pretty sure you just have poor reading comprehension, so obviously this doesn't make you scummier.

Let me try to explain what I meant. Actually, that's difficult, because I don't think I can simplify it any more. How about this: "Blight is scum. Therefore, we should lynch him. In fact, we should lynch him quickly. In addition, because he is scum, he will need to think of a fakeclaim. If we had lynched him faster, he would not have had as much time to think of a fakeclaim. At this point, because he has already had a large amount of time to think of a fakeclaim, we should simply try to lynch him as fast as possible to try to prevent him from having any more time to think of one."

Is that sufficiently simplified for you? Now can you please explain how in the hell you managed to get "[Blight] should be lynched because [he's] not thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough" from that?

LMAO. You can be "sarcastic" all you want. The meaning of that post was clear. It's as clear as "why hasn't Blight claimed yet". Unfortunately, somehow to you it's open to interpretations.

I've already given you reasons why it's scummy and not pro-town. Truth is, we don't know why you'd want me to claim so early. It's just a big WIFOM arguement waiting to happen. But, I just don't see any reason for a pro-town player to want someone to claim so early.

And, yeah, you asked me why I haven't claimed yet. Now you're just getting nit-picky. The phrase still implies that you want me to claim, and you've even said that you "demanded that I claim". I know you're going to say that I'm putting words in your mouth again, so I'll save you the time and just bring up this quote now.

No, actually, you haven't explained why it's scummy, whereas I think I've given a pretty persuasive argument for it being a null tell. Neither you nor Yagami have given any sort of logical reason for why, as scum, I would perpetrate this insane plan you two have dreamed up for me.

If you think I'm scum, obviously you know I'm not going to be pressured to claim at three votes. The only reason I could think someone would claim so early is if they were a newbish townie trying to prove you wrong. And that's why scum would push for a claim at 3 votes, not town.

Maybe you realize that my join date says 2007 and you figured I'd be stupid enough to let it slip. Maybe you thought three votes would be enough to pressure me.

Two times I explained why it's scummy and not pro-town. You've yet to give a good reason why it's a null-tell. And, no; the fact that you supposedly do it in every game isn't good enough.

And no, Blight, I wouldn't say that you're putting words in my mouth when you actually quote things I said. See, because those are my words. You're obviously capable of quoting me, you just need to learn that when you make up the quotes, you can't attribute them to me.

LMAO. Please show me one time when I made up any of your quotes. You can't go back to saying those weren't your words because they

were

.

Seriously, Blight, you lose. Your attacks are pure nonsense. Apparently quoting me and repeating the same bullshit I've already torn apart is an effective strategy in your mind, but I strongly doubt that many people here feel the same way.

You haven't torn apart anything or won anything. Quit being so full of yourself. LOL

The reason I'm not lynched yet is because you haven't proven or disproven anything. You've just prattled on with nonsense, trying to claim you haven't said half the things you've said, and then follow up with "why hasn't Blight been lynched yet". I honestly don't know how this strategy hasn't worked for you yet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not saying role-fishing is scummy, especially based on the definition I always thought of. It's how and when your role fish that determines if it's scummy to me. Asking for a claim so with so few votes is a scummy form of rolefishing imo, because, as I've said, I only see reason for scum to do so.

No. Asking for a claim with so few votes is dumb for scum. I view it as a null tell in and of itself because it's just a mark of a person who wants to be belligerent towards a person they suspect. I've used this tactic before. The question is whether or not belligerence is in character for the player in question. The claim request is not scummy.

[Sarcastro]

So what, you've given up? Because all I see is you insulting me and making blatantly false statements. I'm sick of all this quoting, so I'm going to try to keep this short and concise.

You have not adequately explained why my talk of claims was scummy. Don't assert that you have unless you can show me a quote of you answering the same questions I asked to Yagami. Do not try to redefine the questions unless you give a reason for why mine are unfair.

LMAO. You can be "sarcastic" all you want. The meaning of that post was clear. It's as clear as "why hasn't Blight claimed yet". Unfortunately, somehow to you it's open to interpretations.

...

LMAO. Please show me one time when I made up any of your quotes. You can't go back to saying those weren't your words because they

were

.

What's wrong with you? Are you saying that you're more qualified to say what I meant by "Seriously, guys, can we lynch Blight already? We've already given him way too much time to think of a fakeclaim"? Are you saying that I originally meant it the way you're saying and am now lying about what it means? Your interpretation of it is absolutely nonsensical, and now you're just stubbornly refusing to face fact. No, it is not open to interpretation. It means exactly what I said it means.

You misquoted me as saying "[Blight] should be lynched because [he's] not thinking up a fakeclaim fast enough". That is pretty clearly a case of putting words in my mouth. Do you think you can just say "LMAO" and "LOL" enough times and it'll go away?

Not only are you being scummy, you've now moved into "blatantly and intentionally obnoxious". Your attacks on me are pure bullshit. You better have a bloody good claim, because I'd consider lynching you as a confirmed innocent right now.

Please die.

[YagamiLight]

Okay, sarc, your argument for it being a null tell is that you would act this way regardless if what side you are on right? If not, please quote your reasoning. I think we can end our little argument over this (in your favor most likely) if you do so. I'll post a whole explanation either later tonight, or tomorrow morning after I'm done.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Okay, sarc, your argument for it being a null tell is that you would act this way regardless if what side you are on right? If not, please quote your reasoning. I think we can end our little argument over this (in your favor most likely) if you do so. I'll post a whole explanation either later tonight, or tomorrow morning after I'm done.

I'm the one who said it was a null tell, not Sarc. Just sayin'

[Sarcastro]

No, I also said it was a null tell, which it is.

[YagamiLight]

So, what's your reason? Because I'm fairly sure I've given my reasons for thinking it's scummy, and then noticed this.

No, actually, you haven't explained why it's scummy, whereas I think I've given a pretty persuasive argument for it being a null tell. Neither you nor Yagami have given any sort of logical reason for why, as scum, I would perpetrate this insane plan you two have dreamed up for me.

I don't see a persuasive argument (I don't see much of a reason posted to begin with). Right now it seems more like you are just saying it's a null tell, no reasons, so can I get your posted reasons? This is the reason I found, and I would like to know if you actually posted other reasons.

Why are you voting for me, Yagami? Would you like to explain why scum would be more likely to ask for a claim at three votes, for any reason either conscious or subconscious? You can't just vote for someone based on what, the fact that you think asking for a claim right now is bad play? Why would I do it as scum? What do I gain? This isn't proof that I'm not scum, obviously, but it's pretty clearly a null tell. I'm going to act like this whether I'm scum or town, so you're better off actually looking for real tells.

[Sarcastro]

Yes, Yagami, that's pretty much my reason, though that's not the entire thing - all the questions I asked you about how you could consider it a scumtell are part of it. Saying it's a scumtell requires an unreasonable amount of assumptions and pretty much requires me to have no idea what I'm doing, which I assure you is not the case. I suppose you could say it's a town tell, but I don't think there's really any evidence for that, either, and I'm certainly not making that claim.

Unless someone answers all my questions in explaining why I would do that as scum, it remains a null tell.

I really wish we could get over all of this and just lynch Blight. This game is way more fun when I get to post one- or two-sentence posts demanding lynches.

[Skruffs]

Is this one of those 'that's too scummy to be scummy' arguments? For the record, people defending themselves by saying 'if I were scum, why would I do this', aren't really defendng themselves at all. It seems to indicate sarc considered if it would be scummy or not and then did it after deciding it would be.
In short, only mos's suggestion that it's a null tell matters-and even then, not really, what with him being evilly scumtastic.



Sooooooo


Sarc, why did you do something that you figured would be a null tell, instead of something you figured would be a town tell?
Also, I think the reason you are drawing so much attention is because blight has been 'talking' all game, whereas you've been keeping your opinions hidden.

[Glork]

Glork, out of curiousity, what do you think of what Sarc's done here? Your last post seems kind of like throwing fuel on the fire, but not really a true accusation. I just ask this because I've known you to spend some time in games throwing about baseless accusations. Sarc seems to have taken such behavior to a much higher level, but it is still very similar.

As I've said before, I find Sarc to be reasonably protown. However, his insinuation that there's no basis for him to behave this way as scum is false, so I felt obligated to point out a reason. (Incidentally, I'll note that Sarc has ignored my post altogether.)

Anyway, you're right in that I do spend time in some games throwing my weight around. I've done it both as town and as scum before, and as scum the motivation is sometimes exactly what I just posted -- by making blatantly unreasonable accusations, I can hide behind the "I'm looking for reactions" playstyle and I can hide the fact that I'm not actually contributing anything to the discussion.

While Sarc's earlier play (and, more importantly, the attitude others had held towards him) made me believe him to be protown, I'm not going to lock myself into that opinion and I'm not going to let Sarc play "since Player X can't prove it, it can't be true."

[Mastermind of Sin]

Is this one of those 'that's too scummy to be scummy' arguments? For the record, people defending themselves by saying 'if I were scum, why would I do this', aren't really defendng themselves at all. It seems to indicate sarc considered if it would be scummy or not and then did it after deciding it would be.
In short, only mos's suggestion that it's a null tell matters-and even then, not really, what with him being evilly scumtastic.



Sooooooo


Sarc, why did you do something that you figured would be a null tell, instead of something you figured would be a town tell?
Also, I think the reason you are drawing so much attention is because blight has been 'talking' all game, whereas you've been keeping your opinions hidden.

It's nice to know you've stubbornly decided to keep calling me scum without having a case for it.

[Sarcastro]

Sarc, why did you do something that you figured would be a null tell, instead of something you figured would be a town tell?

What? That makes no sense, Skruffs. People do tons of things that are null tells. In fact 99% of everything people do during mafia games are null tells. You can't possibly suggest that I should only ever do things that are town tells (besides, if I could do things that are town tells at will, why wouldn't I do them as scum, thereby destroying their status as town tells?).

[(Incidentally, I'll note that Sarc has ignored my post altogether.)

That's because I thought you were kidding. How on earth would I

know

when originally mentioning Blight claiming that it would later turn into some giant overblown issue? If I could see the future, Glork, I'd come up with better strategies than that.

Here's a question for everyone not voting for Blight: why the hell aren't you doing so? He's practically confessed to being scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sarc, what do you think of Skruffs' assertion that I am scum?

[Sarcastro]

If you're pro-town, you can prove it by helping me lynch Blight.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Sarcastro

That's enough of that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That actually made me rofl.

[ibaesha]

Unvote, Vote: Sarcastro

That's enough of that.

Yeah...

I'm pondering.

[Glork]

Like I said... using it to skirt real contributions.

[Sarcastro]

I liked Glork more when he was bussing Blight.

[Sarcastro]

Like I said... using it to skirt real contributions.

Yeah, because you've just been a goddamn bastion of contribution, right?

Why don't you start off by explaining why you decided to move your vote off of guaranteed scum onto the obviously pro-town player who caught him?

[Glork]

I should also point out that this seems to completely have fallen by the wayside. It's now looking like it was a mere feint to relieve the pressure building on him so that he could go back to playing the Bull-Headed Irrational.


Maybe Sarc's the SK I was musing about earlier.