Outwitted - Mini 1254 (Game Over)

[Yosarian2]

LLD, what do you do on odd Nights?

I did want to see if CES specifically was a pro-town power role targeting anyone night zero, because last game I played with him he made a scummy-nominated brilliant doc fakeclaim, and I wanted to be able to at least catch him in a lie if he faked a doctor claim this game.

...

That was CrashTextDummy.

I pretty much always claim VT as scum, so yeah, not the best move.

[Yosarian2]

LLD, what do you do on odd Nights?

I did want to see if CES specifically was a pro-town power role targeting anyone night zero, because last game I played with him he made a scummy-nominated brilliant doc fakeclaim, and I wanted to be able to at least catch him in a lie if he faked a doctor claim this game.

...

That was CrashTextDummy.

I pretty much always claim VT as scum, so yeah, not the best move.

(sigh) Sorry for getting you confused. You're right.

Oh well, dosn't really matter at this point.

PPE: Huh, where'd the double post come from? Did I somehow submit that before I finished typing it? Odd

[Yosarian2]

Yos is confirmed town by virtue of him misunderstanding the kill mechanics anyhow.

hmm? what am I misunderstanding?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Mafia's kill cards are factional. They have 55 points worth, not 165.

[Yosarian2]

Mafia's kill cards are factional. They have 55 points worth, not 165.

...

(re-reads mod post again)

Wow, kick ass. I guess that "steal points" ability is factional as well?

Ok, sweet, we may not be as totally screwed as I thought we were.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Marble is scum, Yos.

I got sidetracked by other distractions, and I'm sorry. I should have remained focused on marble once I had him in my sights.

Let's lynch his scummy ass.

[Llamarble]

What?

Me and Andy are confirmed town, or at least I assume we will both be once the town mass-claims. LLD is going to be nearly confirmed town tonight. Why would you say "Yos or Andy is scum"?

So you think the town power is:
Cop
Doctor
Tracker
Even vig
Bulletproof innocent child
You've been playing forever and that doesn't set off some kind of alarm bell for you?

Also LLD, WHY do you think I'm scum?
"Marble's scum especially if Andrius is town" and "Marble's scum if Andrius is scum" and not liking NK musings are pretty much all I found. I'll explain my thought process for you anywhere you like.

[Yosarian2]

What?

Me and Andy are confirmed town, or at least I assume we will both be once the town mass-claims. LLD is going to be nearly confirmed town tonight. Why would you say "Yos or Andy is scum"?

So you think the town power is:
Cop
Doctor
Tracker
Even vig
Bulletproof innocent child
You've been playing forever and that doesn't set off some kind of alarm bell for you?

(shrug) We know, for a fact, that the town has 2 info roles, a doctor, and a bulletproof. And we know that one of the info roles was a cop.

The only part of that list that we didn't already more-or-less know since before the first post of the game was made was the vig. Note that if she fails to kill tonight for whatever reason and is still alive tommorow, she'll move way back up on the suspect list, but I think it's more likely she'll be confirmed tonight. Either way, we'll have information about her alignment tommorow.

I don't really get why your questioning the setup now, when it's basically the setup the mod told us we had before the game started.

Anyway, I don't mind if we do a mass claim, so long as we have all the VT's and the bulletproof claim "I am either a vanilla townie or a bulletproof"; I don't really expect there to be any more power roles other then the bulletproof. We really don't want to out the bulletproof today, but so long as we avoid that, it's fine.

[Llamarble]

"You know this setup has: at least two investigative roles, at least one protective role, a single mafia team, no third parties, at least one town bulletproof (role PM below), and at least one Townie."
Only the bulletproof is confirmed town. Investigative and protective roles were explicitly not modconfirmed as town.

[Yosarian2]

"You know this setup has: at least two investigative roles, at least one protective role, a single mafia team, no third parties, at least one town bulletproof (role PM below), and at least one Townie."
Only the bulletproof is confirmed town. Investigative and protective roles were explicitly not modconfirmed as town.

Yeah, I know, we already had this discussion with me and lld. I still don't buy it.

Anyway, if the setup has about double the amount of power that town usually has, but all the roles are limited shot roles that also fail 50% of the time, it doesn't necessarily seem unbalanced to me. A lot would depend on details we don't know, like the exact mechanism of how the cop's role worked. (I assume it was point-based somehow, since everything else in the game is, but how, and what does the cop have to "beat"?)

[Fate]

Know something we dont, Marble?

[Llamarble]

I know how to pay attention to setup stuff.
Does that count?

Could you clarify

that the two investigate roles, the one protective role, the bulletproof, and the townie are all pro-town roles? Thank you.

No.

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Fate, as much as I agree with the Zang lynch on policy, I'm not seeing much town benefit to mass claiming tomorrow rather than today, except for the potential LLD shot.

If Zang is scum he will claim a protective role or an information role, OBVIOUSLY. That goes without saying. If he's town, he'll claim his role, obviously.

So we're left with four scenarios if we wagon Zang.

1) He claims information/protective role. Woo. We're then left in the quandary of having a 50/50, with the added WIFOM that NEITHER might be scum.
2) He claims bulletproof. We can't lynch a claimed bulletproof without a counterclaim. OBVIOUSLY
3) He claims VT. Do we lynch or not?
4) He claims something completely different. Do we lynch or not?

All that I see happening is a buttload of WIFOM.

The worst part of mass claim tomorrow is that I don't see a SINGLE FUCKING REASON for it. Scum get a whole extra night kill without knowing, what? All the town power roles? Unless the scumteam is LLD/Yos/Andrius (SPOILER ITS NOT) then they know at least ONE of them, if not two or even three (:roll:).

This is being fucking lazy right here, right now.

[Yosarian2]

I know I just said this, but I'm not sure if anyone paid attention, me, so let me repeat myself. If we are doing a mass claim, then we need to do it in a way that doesn't out the confirmed-innocent bulletproof, for multiple reasons. (Simplest way is just to have everyone say "I'm either a VT or a bulletproof"). So long as we do that, I'm all for it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

"You know this setup has: at least two investigative roles, at least one protective role, a single mafia team, no third parties, at least one town bulletproof (role PM below), and at least one Townie."
Only the bulletproof is confirmed town. Investigative and protective roles were explicitly not modconfirmed as town.

That's still implicit, not explicit, marble. (Not to mention bulletproofs tend to have their alignment specified more often, just like someone might say "I'm a town roleblocker".)

I don't see any problems balancewise. We also don't know what Zor has put in to balance things (e.g. Mafia Roleblocker, Miller).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Grey, I shoot tonight.

This game was a night start, so tonight is night 2 (an even night).

[Llamarble]

Also LLD, WHY do you think I'm scum?
"Marble's scum especially if Andrius is town" and "Marble's scum if Andrius is scum" and not liking NK musings are pretty much all I found. I'll explain my thought process for you anywhere you like.

I AWAIT.

Also CES you're confused. The explicit modconfirmation of not confirmation was the other post I quoted for Fate in 461. Not that it matters.

I CLAIM BULLETPROOF OR TOWNIE.
LURCONIS GO NEXT.
VOTE: Lurconis

VCA says Fate and Spyspy have both probably been on a scum's L-1 wagon.

[Lurconis]

I will go in a minute but no one else claim I am working on a post.

[Lurconis]

Fake Claims

This will list 2 or 3 roles that are on the potential abilities list that are not in the game.

The benefit of scum receiving these was two fold. It allowed them a fake claim and it also allowed them to try and guess what power roles may be in the game to possibly draw out a counter claim.

I weighed the pros and cons of this all day and as the discussion keeps moving toward massclaim I decided to go ahead and out myself to scum. I am a town tracker Yos is lying. I originally thought it was possible to have to town trackers as yos said at least, that was why I was somewhat prodding him last night about what he meant by certain things. He ended up saying one thing that is in direct contradiction to my role pm.

On the other hand, if I track a town power role who's doing something and spend any points at all, then I see what they're doing.

I actually had that clarified with Zoraster during night 0 and was told I have to outbid town power roles to track them. His lying about this made me realize he was scum that was why i kept my vote on him.

I wanted to go ahead and counter claim once I noticed people were going for a massclaim. I don't want any other possible town PR's to out themselves when there is no need.

I attempted to track Darox night 0 but failed to track him or he didn't go anywhere this does not make him town or scum it makes him vt or someone I didn't outbid be it town or scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also CES you're confused. The explicit modconfirmation of not confirmation was the other post I quoted for Fate in 461. Not that it matters.

Zor didn't explicitly confirm anything. He basically indicated he wouldn't answer the question.

P-edit: wasn't expecting that

[GreyICE]

HAHAHA

YES

YES

YES

FATE WE CAN DO THIS

DEATH TO THE YOSARIAN

GO GO GO

[Andrius]

we have a CC up ins?

Vote: yosarian2

this should be easy.
we lynch one
if he doesn't flip scum
lld shoots that mofo tonight

if he does flip scum then i should coordinate with lld as to make sure we dont target the same ppl

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There's plenty of motive for Lurcscum to counterclaim here (and scum have daytalk, so), but the claim feels really legitimate.

Unvote, vote: Yos2

[Andrius]

yeah but even if he is (and there's no reason to risk a CC here) then we've got CONTINGENCY PLAN
so
we're in good shape

[Llamarble]

HAHAHA WOW.
VOTE: Yos

And yeah, the counterclaimant is much more likely town D1.