Mini 517: Tree Stump Mafia: Game Over

[Adele]

Are you saying that if Quagmire had turned up town yesterday, you'd think me a townie, (therefore, that my play makes sense in a townie), or that given my behaviour yesterday it's implausible that Quagmire could've been town?

You might think this is a false dichotomy. I disagree. Not all dichotomies are false, and I think this is a true dichotomy. If I'm in error, then please correct me.

Is MoS scummy or what???

That's not a false dichotomy, it's a legitimate question.

You see, I wanted to give him a chance to answer my question before condemning him. Maybe there was something

else

in that post he thought was a fallacy, or maybe he was just mistaken (turns out he wasn't, but the point is, you jumped on him

first

opportunity you got).

In fact, scotmany I'll make you a deal: if you stump right now, and turn up town, I will immediately stump myself.

I find it difficult to believe that d3sisted thought there was

any

chance of scotmany taking him up on that (why would he?). D3sisted, did you think scotmany would do as you asked or was there an ulterior motive to your offer?

I'm not happy with DGB at all right now. I'd withheld judgement on max to a large extent because I didn't feel I'd seen enough of him. The DGB comes in and plays more to an agenda than the needs of the game, refusing to consider any factors to explain the phenomena that she has identified other than the explanation she decided on 10 minutes into playing the game. Right now she looks like she

wants

me to be scum - or wants others to think I am.

if I'm to vote anyone at this juncture, I'll:

vote: DrippingGoofball

- I'm really not at all happy with her contribution so far.
And no, Goof, this isn't an omgus.

on that note, where's silver? I'd hoped she'd stick around. An objective take on all this'd be helpful at this point.

[SilverPhoenix]

I am still here. My views on DGB are almost in line with Adele's. The statement that troubled me the most is this:

Unfortunately for the scum, Goofball barged in and cracked the game, haha.

I don't give respected players the right to make mistakes, or for them to use their experience as a form of absolute truth. That statement implies absoluteness, and I do not think that it is protown at all to not consider all of the options. The same could be said for scot initially as well, which was the basis of my argument against him. So I see DGB and scot doing the same thing: proclaiming their argument as absolute truth. And I do not believe them whatsoever.

[DrippingGoofball]

You see, I wanted to give him a chance to answer my question before condemning him. Maybe there was something

else

in that post he thought was a fallacy, or maybe he was just mistaken (turns out he wasn't, but the point is, you jumped on him

first

opportunity you got).

Are you saying you asked MoS some sort of trick question? Are you saying that I am defending MoS? Are you simultaneously saying I am jumping on MoS?

I'm not happy with DGB at all right now.

You'll never be happy with me.

The DGB comes in and plays more to an agenda than the needs of the game, refusing to consider any factors to explain the phenomena that she has identified other than the explanation she decided on 10 minutes into playing the game. Right now she looks like she

wants

me to be scum - or wants others to think I am.

So Quagmire has an an agenda, and I have an agenda, too? Why are you making yourself look like an agenda magnet? You're the farthest thing from a nuisance player. I saw the phenomena that I saw, and it's something I look for. I am efficient.

vote: DrippingGoofball

That one was predictable

[DrippingGoofball]

I don't give respected players the right to make mistakes...

Lucky for me, I am not a respected player. I don't flake, I participate a great deal, I try to be funny, but that doesn't mean that my judgment and opinions are respected in games. They pretty much never are. Nonetheless - Quag's behavior and Adele's response to it scream scum to me. That's my opinion.

[Thok]

Official Vote Count

d3sisted (2): (JDodge, scotmany12)
scotmany12 (2): (d3sisted, Korlash)
DrippingGoofball (2): (Aimee, Adele)
Korlash (1): (Mith)
Adele (1): (DrippingGoofball)
JDodge (0):
Aimee (0):
Mith (0):
Mastermind of Sin (0):

Not voting (1): (Mastermind of Sin)

[Aimee]

Um, because I don't necessarily view you as scum korlash. I'm following my gut on you, and right now I'm viewing you as a stubborn and misguided town. In fact, you are playing quite aggressive, and most of the time(at least through my experiences) the most aggressive players turn out to be town.

This is stupid... I'm not quite sure how you can argue that a

playstyle

is scummy.

I'm not sure what I think about Korlash's freely admitting he is bussing.

I need to re-read the DGB/Adele thing.

[SilverPhoenix]

It was just the tone that struck me as haughty. I was kind of saying that in response to Adele's "fan-girlish" response-thing and your tone. And you might have been sarcastic about it, but you still said it.

[SilverPhoenix]

I'm not quite sure how you can argue that a playstyle is scummy.

Hmm....I have a hard time agreeing with that. Yes, scummieness is not completely dependent on playstyle, but we do judge people based on their actions, and henceforth their playstyle. I don't think anyone can honestly say that they play the same way for all roles.

[Korlash]

I don't think anyone can honestly say that they play the same way for all roles.

I more or less do... I am always loud, for the most part unhelpful, and try to make a lot of jokes. Town, mafia, doc, vanilla, doesn't really matter to me...

But alas.. I cannot speak for the others...

[SilverPhoenix]

I cannot speak for the others...

Most

others. Although I have made the exact same mistakes in the past two games I've played in. XP

[d3sisted]

Korlash, I do not believe for a second that you play the exact same in every game, every alignment, every role.

[Korlash]

Oh i do... I act like an idiot, stay more or less off topic, make over half of my posts pointless.. and throw in a bit of jokes.. i admit this game I acted a bit differently because I got pissed off during day one...

But yeah... I at least TRY to act the same...

I figure if I play every game as if I were town, even if I am scum, I can hopefully come off as pro-town...

Then again I have yet to actually be over half the roles (i.e. Doc, cop, tracker, RB, etc) so I guess my claim is a bit premature eh... I still plan on acting the same no matter what...

[Adele]

I'm not quite sure how you can argue that a playstyle is scummy.

Hmm....I have a hard time agreeing with that. Yes, scummieness is not completely dependent on playstyle, but we do judge people based on their actions, and henceforth their playstyle. I don't think anyone can honestly say that they play the same way for all roles.

I 100% agree. I mean, that's

why

quag claimed as he did. And Seol's always telling me, no matter how I try, I'll always have tells. It's just how it is.

[mith]

Players

try

to act the same whatever their alignment for the most part, but rarely do they actually manage to do so.

I find it kinda funny that you claimed you do, and then had to admit you acted differently in this game.

Korlash's "if we had to waste all our stumps i would love to see..." doesn't read genuine to me at all. Listing himself might feel more pro-town if not for the fact that d3sisted had just done something similar, and he took it quite a bit further with the "love" wording. Further, he seems to be suggesting that it would be a

good thing

, or at least an acceptable thing, if we were to have four townies stump because it would prove them innocent - which is pretty silly, since we would then be in a lynch-or-lose situation.

Korlash, could you give a

brief

(one or two paragraph) explanation of why you find scotmany12 more suspicious than JDodge?

In other news, I agree with Adele's "I'm not happy with DGB", but I don't find her particularly scummy at the moment either. Partly because I found Max's jump on the Quagwagon the most townish, partly because it seems more a playstyle thing.

On the flip side, I am happy with Adele's content, but something about her wording still rubs me wrong. Just little things, mostly gut feeling, but if I have more time later I might see if I can put together a list of them and analyze it.

For reference (both yours and mine), my list at the moment looks something like:

Korlash
JDodge
Adele

Aimee
Mastermind of Sin
scotmany12

DrippingGoofball
d3sisted

[mith]

(That first bit was to Korlash, sorry. Forgot to preview.)

[Korlash]

Oh sure.. First off when i posted my huge thing JD answered me, Scot man laughed and said it was funny how much I "Contradicted" myself.

Also when you look at my two "new" lists where I spell out my issues I have more listed for Scot then I do for JD.

So plain and simple, for the most part I feel scot tried to ignore me earlier plus I find more about him scummy.

Korlash's "if we had to waste all our stumps i would love to see..." doesn't read genuine to me at all. Listing himself might feel more pro-town if not for the fact that d3sisted had just done something similar, and he took it quite a bit further with the "love" wording. Further, he seems to be suggesting that it would be a good thing, or at least an acceptable thing, if we were to have four townies stump because it would prove them innocent - which is pretty silly, since we would then be in a lynch-or-lose situation.

I'm not saying it would be a good thing, but if the day went on for another bagillion years we would eventually HAVE to either lynch scum or have stumped one or two people yes? And if we say HAD to pick townies that we all went after, thus forcing them to stump, I would like to get the people I think are scum rather then the people I think are town. OF course everyone of us should feel that way I think.

Also whats your point with the D3sisted comment? I had already more or less said I had almost done the same thing earlier. No duh I'm going to still have the same feelings.

I find it kinda funny that you claimed you do, and then had to admit you acted differently in this game.

I know... I haven't had enough time for jokes T_T

Wait... wait... Two men walk into a bar... The third one ducks! =D

...

Oh you guys are lame...

[mith]

If you would like to get the people

you

think are scum, why did you list yourself?

[SilverPhoenix]

[quote="mith]If you would like to get the people you think are scum, why did you list yourself?[/quote]
It is something that he has done the entire game. I believe he has voted himself at least twice, and when I asked him in D1 why, he basically sounded like a random reason. It might be a tactic to confuse us, but I can't be sure (I'm confused lol ).

[d3sisted]

Scotmany, why are you purposefully ignoring my proposal?
You do know what happened to the last guy who refused to stump, right?

[JDodge]

Scotmany, why are you purposefully ignoring my proposal?
You do know what happened to the last guy who refused to stump, right?

This is why you are scum

[d3sisted]

stop defending your partner so blatantly, it's embarassing...

[scotmany12]

Why would I stump when I only have two votes on me? That would be ludicrous, and I'm not going to stump because someone I believe to be scum told me to. And why should I stump if I have a chance on getting you lynched? If it ends up me having to stump, so be it, but I will not do it prematurely.

[JDodge]

Scotmany, why are you purposefully ignoring my proposal?
You do know what happened to the last guy who refused to stump, right?

you're threatening a lynch on the basis of refusal to stump of someone with two votes.

this is why you're scum

[DrippingGoofball]

this is why you're scum

Explain to me why he's scum, and not just town playing badly.

[d3sisted]

If you really believe I am scum, why don't you take up my offer and stump yourself to out me? The only reason is that you know theres a greater than 50% chance of me coming up town, in which case you're just voting me off baseless arguments and fallacies.