1025 Tarot Mafia (Over!)

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry; having a differing opinion on someone's alignment is not scummy. Try again.

OK, why is Jarti scum.
Convince me.

I asked him why he wanted Kise to kill me; his next post ignores me in favor of a shift on UncertainKitten. When I voted him to get him to respond, he said that I was using the "scum have only one card" theory as a setup, something you've also accused me of.

Not true.

The mod never said how many cards everybody has; I was the first person to say anything about people having two cards. When Ythill pointed this out,

THEN

I talked about scum having only one card, and then only as something that I hoped wasn't true. "I hope that scum does not have only one card" =/= "scum has only one card", and anybody believing otherwise is guilty of reverse wishful thinking.

I'm sorry, but I still don't consider Jarti to have given a legitimate case on me.

I hope this isn't the case for Jarti being scum.

Your hopes are dashed, then.

I never seriously entertained the possibility of scum have one card apiece other than wishing otherwise. Pay closer attention to my posts.

Did you seriously believe you were a potential nightkill target?
Because you basically said that if scum aren't the people with one card, they were liable to shoot you cause they knew you had two.[/quote]
No, I said the opposite. In the specific scenario of one card per scum, then I felt that my chances of dying were upped somewhat. Forced to assume two or more cards per scum, it's a pretty solid no, though.

X = realizing that nobody is a vanilla townie.

So
"Before i thought there were vanilla townies, so Ani was rolefishing. Then I realized there weren't vanilla townies, so Ani wasn't rolefishing"
Explain how ani was rolefishing, please, I still don't understand.

Let's look at the post:

The first thing we should do, for anyone who actually knows anything about Tarot Cards, is to compile a list of "liklely a Power Role" "likley scum" and "likley VT".

He asked us for what cards are potentially power roles. In a game with vanilla townies, that'd be asking the town to give scum information they wouldn't need, something against my "don't help scum" philosophy. I don't recall

EVER

seeing town rolefish that early in Day 1.

[MacavityLock]

@Mac:

My read on you is based on you excusing my lack of reads in the early game

Misinterpretation of what I said, though again, I understand how you could have gotten there.

your selective attack on Switz

How is it selective? I found a tell, and I voted it. That tell wasn't "discussing the 1 card=scum theory", it was "making the 1 card=scum seem plausible", which didn't apply to either you or SC.

your defense following my instruction to Kise to dayvig you (rather than my vote)

The fact that you were continuing the attack meant that it was time for me to respond.

and your slippery wierdness following my conversation with DTM involving investigations.

What do you mean by "slippery weirdness"? I think that requesting getting investigated as you did (though you say it was not entirely a serious request) is anti-town at best, and I called you out on it.

Also, I still haven't received that cookie... instead, I got an ad populum excuse.

Let me repeat, you found a question, not an accusation. Check it again if you like and amazingly, you'll find a question mark. If you think it was a loaded question, whatever, but it was a serious question to me and I expected an answer. Now find a post where I accuse you of being scum, and you'll get the cookie. Also, where is ad populem in my posting?

You have still not answered why "it doesn't matter what alignment [Switz] is".

[magnus_orion]

In the specific scenario of one card per scum, then I felt that my chances of dying were upped somewhat. Forced to assume two or more cards per scum, it's a pretty solid no, though.

If that's the case... could you elaborate on the reasoning behind this for me... I don't quite follow.

Your hopes are dashed, then.

ugh. Hypocrisy is a town-tell......

unvote

He asked us for what cards are potentially power roles. In a game with vanilla townies, that'd be asking the town to give scum information they wouldn't need, something against my "don't help scum" philosophy. I don't recall EVER seeing town rolefish that early in Day 1.

Could you define your use of the term "rolefishing" for me?

hmmm mac is town. Don't lynch him. But Kise still gives me scum vibes from before
I'm going to

vote: kise

.
Let's lynch kise.

[xRECKONERx]

m_o wanting to lynch a lurker is pretty damn ridiculous.

Vote: magnus_orion

Slot was scummy before. Slot is still scummy. LYNCH.

[StrangerCoug]

In the specific scenario of one card per scum, then I felt that my chances of dying were upped somewhat. Forced to assume two or more cards per scum, it's a pretty solid no, though.

If that's the case... could you elaborate on the reasoning behind this for me... I don't quite follow.

Ultimately, paranoia. Assuming the cards are about equal in power, I would be more powerful than the Mafia in the former event and thus a plausible danger.

He asked us for what cards are potentially power roles. In a game with vanilla townies, that'd be asking the town to give scum information they wouldn't need, something against my "don't help scum" philosophy. I don't recall EVER seeing town rolefish that early in Day 1.

Could you define your use of the term "rolefishing" for me?

I thought I used the term according to the standard definition. Unnecessarily trying to determine what power role someone has.

[DTMaster]

Mod can you give an extension of 1 week?

. My analysis burns me out.

[magnus_orion]

@Reck:
Huh?
I never said it was cause he was lurking.
It's not. Lurking isn't a scum-tell.
I'll post a case later. I'm busy reading philosophy textbook atm.

I thought I used the term according to the standard definition. Unnecessarily trying to determine what power role someone has.

unless people claim their cards... I don't see how this fits the definition of role fishing.

[Socrates]

I would love to see where the magic onion gets his town read on the bigmac from.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought I used the term according to the standard definition. Unnecessarily trying to determine what power role someone has.

unless people claim their cards... I don't see how this fits the definition of role fishing.

That by itself doesn't; however, animorpherv1 asked us our theories of which cards

ARE

powers.

[MacavityLock]

And I'd love to know where your scum read of me comes from.

Tell me, what is his opinion on anyone other than Switz? I can't tell from his posts.

I've provided some opinions (e.g. see Capn, Yth), but especially in the early stages of a game, I'm a question asker, as both town and scum.

Also, his Switz suspicion feels calculated, though I would need more time and a better vocabulary than I have to explain why with any sort of clarity.

Vaguest suspicion ever.

[Prox]

extwnsion of week would bw great

My refocus on this thread begins q
within 38 hours.

[StrangerCoug]

Tipsy, Prox?

[Socrates]

And I'd love to know where your scum read of me comes from.

Tell me, what is his opinion on anyone other than Switz? I can't tell from his posts.

I've provided some opinions (e.g. see Capn, Yth), but especially in the early stages of a game, I'm a question asker, as both town and scum.

Also, his Switz suspicion feels calculated, though I would need more time and a better vocabulary than I have to explain why with any sort of clarity.

Vaguest suspicion ever.

My impression has been that most of your posting has been defending yourself to Ythill, and continuing your push on Switz, with only a few token posts here and there even talking to the other players. Your Capn suspicion was mentioned in all of 2 posts and you haven't really displayed any interest in following up on it, only giving the limpest of support for such a stance only when the Switz wagon is finally dieing down.

Yea, it's vague. I can endeavor to make it clearer, but I don't know if it worth the effort. I'll do that tonight.

[magnus_orion]

I thought I used the term according to the standard definition. Unnecessarily trying to determine what power role someone has.

unless people claim their cards... I don't see how this fits the definition of role fishing.

That by itself doesn't; however, animorpherv1 asked us our theories of which cards

ARE

powers.

right. And?
I still don't see where it connects those cards with the individuals.
For example: I think XXXXX card is a power role doesn't tell me who has XXXXX card.

I would love to see where the magic onion gets his town read on the bigmac from.

'cause selectivity is a town-tell.
Its the same reason hypocrisy is a town-tell.
Because scum usually think about their posts "how will this affect my standing in the town?" and things along those lines, they have at least one more level of introspection than town when posting. Because of that, generally, a lacking in introspectiveness is indicative of a townie alignment. Selectivity, hypocrisy, scum are very careful to avoid these things. Town, sure of their alignment, aren't so careful, and since they are looking for scum on in this game they are more likely to make such a mistake, since, frankly, gut plays a larger role that most people care to admit. Though selectivity is less of a town-tell than hypocrisy, since people are more likely to try to judge others using some kind of equality towards everyone. But its still a town-tell.
To put it in the twisted way of trying to make everything neat and tidy,
What is the intent behind this selectivity?

Do you guys think he selectively excluded SC and Ythil because he's trying to protect his scumbuddies? Or is it more likely because he doesn't think they're scum? If so, he must either be busing, or town. If you were scum, do you have an obligation to attack another individual? No, not usually. So why would you pick an individual and use an accusation such that they appear to be specifically chosen using some hidden agenda?

Speaking of hypocrisy = town, Socrates is town. But we already knew that from ani.

Now I'm going to get to my case against kise next post.

[magnus_orion]

Oh Kise hasn't posted a lot. Oh well, I still have a scum read on him from this post.

Scumread = Nobody Special, and for a very special reason. His supposed agreeing with you and vote towards ani contradict. I suspect he's skimming (perhaps even skipping) through the posts and trying to tack on plausible wagon on a player [animorpherv] who could be explored more, though I'll come forth and announce that ani is my town read so I could care less about "exploring" him. Ani IS town simply for confessing that he expects to be lynched due to his cards/abilities being viewed non-town. This is a first for me, so stop me if this is a repeated gambit or something similar, but I

refuse

to believe ani is scum that was placed in a situation (by Kitten) where he had to conditionally confess to cards/abilities that may not be welcomed warmly.

Back to NS: by the looks of things, his [unjust] reason for voting ani is that he agrees with you, Ythill, though the context of your comments towards ani are

not suggestive

of ani being scum because of his.... NONSENSE. Don't worry. NS will get what's his once dram returns.

I don't see the scum intent in the contradiction. I see kisescum going after a confused townie. Kise, why do (did?) you think NS is scum cause of this contradictory nature?

Only scummy thing I have, now that SC has started to appear more pro-town.

I should start to interrogate people I don't have good reads on... and go over their posts.
Proxy, Mitsuru. What are your opinions of Kise?

[StrangerCoug]

I thought I used the term according to the standard definition. Unnecessarily trying to determine what power role someone has.

unless people claim their cards... I don't see how this fits the definition of role fishing.

That by itself doesn't; however, animorpherv1 asked us our theories of which cards

ARE

powers.

right. And?
I still don't see where it connects those cards with the individuals.
For example: I think XXXXX card is a power role doesn't tell me who has XXXXX card.

OK, you win. I think you've given a thorough explanation of why attacking animorpherv1 for rolefishing was a bad idea.

[magnus_orion]

.... But...
you didn't say...
nngh...
OK, yeah, this is SC-town.

[Switz]

@Ythill: My role will not allow me to simultaneously block myself and "protect" DTM. Should I do the latter then?

[Socrates]

Fuck. I am going to be V/La for labor day weekend, which I completely forgot about when I replaced into this game. That isn't fair to you guys, especially so close to deadline. I am going to look into making sure I can get an internet connection.

[Ythill]

Do you guys think he selectively excluded SC and Ythil because he's trying to protect his scumbuddies?

Nope. I think he selectively attacked Switz because both were called scum in the early game and he felt the need to distance, either because Switz is a buddy or Mac was pretending he is. Do you really believe that stuff about how scum always act a certain way?

@Mac:

I'm not going to fill the thread with noise. You asked for a case and you got it. It's not like you're ever going to agree with me and you certainly haven't cleared yourself IMO. If I was going to say why Switz alignment doesn't matter, I already would have.

@Reck:

I don't know what you mean by safe but... yes, please vote Mac.

@Switz:

Yes, please "protect" DTM. I'm going to hold my hand and hope I don't get NKed. BTW, if you're budding to me, it's working.

@Socrates:

It's fair as long as you leave your vote on Mac.

[MacavityLock]

OK, well, it looks like idiots and scum are probably going to follow Yth off a cliff. Just for funsies, everybody who is voting for me, please post your #2 lynch choice. Everyone who votes me after this post, please also provide your #2 lynch choice in the same post that you vote for me.

[Ythill]

Planning a stunning claim, eh? I'd be up for a magnus lynch second to you.

Are you calling Reck scum or an idiot? Just curious.

[MacavityLock]

Please stop putting words in my mouth, Yth.

Reck has been on the taking-no-initiative scummy side of things for a while now.

[Ythill]

Oh wait a minute. That was a softclaim, wasn't it? I have a guess as to what that card does, and suddenly your second lynch question makes a lot more sense...

Do you understand what I'm talking about?

[Ythill]

Please stop putting words in my mouth, Yth.

I'm not. You said scum/idiots were going to follow me but the only person I've asked to vote for you is Reck. I was just using the words that

actually came out of your

mouth

keyboard

to incite a vote from him. But maybe that was foolish? Heh.