Street Racers: Las Vegas (Game over!)

[Guyett]

Damn it. Wake screws up my game even when getting modkilled.

Plan A: Get ETL lynched
Plan B: Obviously tank the lynch (which my buddies didn't see at the end) because I was getting lynched anyway. Get lynched as close to deadline as possible to make every deadline short as fuck, as scum can continue dallying around, forcing dumb deadline lynches.

Communicate Plan B through the use of a coded jester message to ika.

Wake gets modkilled... no one asks about jester message.


*Titus pulls hair out and watches minimally.

Wake is an ass anyway

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why did you go after me anyway?

[Titus]

Convienence. I was just meaning to sow doubt but to keep with meta, I had to go with the full monte and it allowed my allies to establish town cover.

[Titus]

Damn it. Wake screws up my game even when getting modkilled.

Plan A: Get ETL lynched
Plan B: Obviously tank the lynch (which my buddies didn't see at the end) because I was getting lynched anyway. Get lynched as close to deadline as possible to make every deadline short as fuck, as scum can continue dallying around, forcing dumb deadline lynches.

Communicate Plan B through the use of a coded jester message to ika.

Wake gets modkilled... no one asks about jester message.


*Titus pulls hair out and watches minimally.

Wake is an ass anyway

No I like him as a person and he's fun to play with. This game was just frustrating on sooo many levels.

[displaced]

I read in another thread that he was under the impression he was posting securely offsite so might just be unlucky rather than an ass?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why did you go after me anyway?

To make me think you guys were just power bussing each other, obv.

[thezmon221]

I felt I made a very legitimate case in my last day.

Then again, I had a few points I should have addressed, though didn't.

I read in another thread that he was under the impression he was posting securely offsite so might just be unlucky rather than an ass?

He shouldn't have done it anyway. I speak from unfortunate experience.

[Titus]

Why did you go after me anyway?

To make me think you guys were just power bussing each other, obv.

Nah, I rarely do things to deliberately confuse a player I hadn't got inside the head of yet. I'm good, but I'm not that good.

[Brian Skies]

And Brian, I don't see how it's the scum's responsibility to break a cycle of correct play that ends in no actions.

I don't see it either. It was optimal play for both teams and I already knew this (I even admitted I did it in an EpicMafia game). But I'm not going to insinuate my true feelings when my goal is to strongarm the last scum into making a night kill, especially when I have the leverage to do so.

Honestly, you were just on the wrong end of StrangerCoug's 3 Day/Night cycle policy. Had we started on a No Kill, the town would have been forced to make a lynch.

I actually remember making a post about this and what I was doing, but I think the tigers ate it.

Regarding the No Kill/No Lynch thing, I don't really care what the policy is as long as it's consistent and stated in some way from the mod. But calling it a draw or double-loss seems the most fair to me.

It's just so demoralizing to spend all that time and effort when I don't think there was actually anything I could do to win the game.

I think you were doing okay. I don't think GG was ever really in that terrible of a position, people were just being paranoid because of the way the game is designed (there were some things that were scummy but nothing you couldn't have talked your way out of). I just thought your final plan was a little off and if it were me, I would have tried to mislynch me and give the hammer to Jmo (which was pretty much how I was expecting it to play out and I was worried about whether or not I'd be able to convince the last town not to hammer me). Although AP saying I did jack shit all game hurts my feelings a bit (especially considering how much time and effort I actually spent reading this game and formulating my super-awesome townreads), I do agree with him that you jumped the gun in Lylo and it seemed really off to me (among other things that were on my checklist to look at before hammering in Lylo).

[Brian Skies]

The reason's simple.
Town wincon is to eliminate all threats to the town.
If the mafia refuse to kill consistently, they're refusing to be a threat. And because they're actively choosing not to be a threat, the town has fulfilled its wincon: the mafia's no longer a threat, even if still existing.
The mafia wincon is to control 50% of the town. By consistently not killing, the mafia are not playing towards that. They're putting no effort into fulfilling it.

Thus, the justification for mafia losing and town winning.

Although I agree with what Mastin is saying, I still think the conclusion implies a draw or double-loss at best. Neither side wins out because the town hasn't fulfilled its wincon (they haven't eliminated it's threat) and the mafia haven't taken control of the town. It's a happily ever after, but one where the town doesn't achieve the justice it was looking for and the mafia were thwarted from their dastardly plan.

I get the idea, and I have no problem with how it played out in this game. But no killing was the correct play for me and suggesting that it should be disallowed or frowned upon is silly.

There is nothing wrong with the way you played and frowning upon it would be ridiculous. But you have to remember that I was also playing to win.

To put it simply, you were trying to game the system and I was gaming it too!

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, thanks for the game StrangerCoug and I thought it was really good modding (the town just shot themselves in the foot early on and felt the repercussions of underestimating banked deadlines).

And the town did a great job battling through the early apathy and finding the scum-team. Not to mention the gems in this game that really made me laugh.

Sorry for my early play and I hope I was able to make up for it.

GG everyone, sorry for some unavoidable absence in the endgame there, I'd like to think Brian and I would've hammered it out earlier if that wasnt the case.

Maybe. I had no intention of lynching you and I secretly wanted to see you eat a bullet at the end until I saw you switch focus onto Sthar (which made me really sad).

If there is one thing I'm good at, its making believable claims.

I don't know. Your retract onto the BP was the most believable part but you were obviously not a gunsmith and I'm surprised no one caught onto that on Day 2. Seeing you carry out "I'm a gunsmith but not really a 'gunsmith'" from Day 3 onwards was just painful and annoying to watch for me. Regardless, very well played by you and Sthar8.

I'm curious though, why did you decide to retract your claim when you did? I have a theory about it, but I don't know if it's right.

Oh man this would have been a storm for the ages.

I'm actually kind of sad this never happened. It could have been Anything Goes revisited (but with GREAT JUSTICE!!!).

I still don't get why everyone thought Thez was scum lol.

50% I really just wanted to lynch Thez for reasons I don't understand myself.
30% Flowcharts and not wanting to hear bullshit from Bro/PA if Thez really was the last scum.
10% Displaced was being really persuasive and pulling out the same things I was looking at with regards to Thez.
10% Fuck ponies and fake gladiates.

I also may or may not been playing most of this game a day behind in terms of information because of the short deadlines. Like, somebody would mention something in the thread, and I would be like "Da fuq? When did this happen?"

I felt I made a very legitimate case in my last day.

It was really good and I quite enjoyed looking through it before hammering Sthar8.

I read in another thread that he was under the impression he was posting securely offsite so might just be unlucky rather than an ass?

This might be the case. But I really think Wake really has good intentions in his games and he just gets a bad rap for it because people just don't understand where he's coming from.

Like, I remember his gambit in Nobody Special's large normal. It was really weird, but I could see where he was coming from despite all the people hating on him for it.

[Yates]

I won? I WON??!!! Woo hoo! I WON!!!!!

[Natirasha]

Wake's a real nice guy on the occasions I've talked to him privately.

Strictly from a game design point of view, a happily ever after scenario should end in a draw. Like , I don't know how you cab actually defend any other decision on that. Its the equivalent of both teams just taking off their gear and walking away in the middle of a ballgame.

[notscience]

worst vig shots na

[PeregrineV]

The reason's simple.
Town wincon is to eliminate all threats to the town.
If the mafia refuse to kill consistently, they're refusing to be a threat. And because they're actively choosing not to be a threat, the town has fulfilled its wincon: the mafia's no longer a threat, even if still existing.
The mafia wincon is to control 50% of the town. By consistently not killing, the mafia are not playing towards that. They're putting no effort into fulfilling it.

Thus, the justification for mafia losing and town winning.

But the mafia can be a threat in the day phase...

Except the day is the town's weapon. The town doesn't need to lynch when there's no longer a threat. The town doesn't need to use the day if the scum don't use their weapon.

In a traditional flavor sense, the town is responding to the threat of the mafia with their lynches. They're not happy-go-lucky lynchers from the get-go randomly. It's always the mafia striking first, during the night (pregame or N0 or occasionally a rare N1 night-start), rather than the town. If the mafia choose not to kill, they're effectively choosing not to exist.

This I agree with. Without the nightkills, there is no need to lynch.

[Wake1]

Damn it. Wake screws up my game even when getting modkilled.

Plan A: Get ETL lynched
Plan B: Obviously tank the lynch (which my buddies didn't see at the end) because I was getting lynched anyway. Get lynched as close to deadline as possible to make every deadline short as fuck, as scum can continue dallying around, forcing dumb deadline lynches.

Communicate Plan B through the use of a coded jester message to ika.

Wake gets modkilled... no one asks about jester message.


*Titus pulls hair out and watches minimally.

Wake is an ass anyway

There's no need for that kind of juvenile crap. You should get to know who I really am over at USMB before judging me (Mr. Flay gave permission to mention political messageoard in passing. I understand these games can get very stressful and frustrating. I think how people behave under the pressure these games can bring doesn't do any justice to how people in general behave. You may not know this, but I am a very kind, respectful, and patient person usually.

Damn it. Wake screws up my game even when getting modkilled.

Plan A: Get ETL lynched
Plan B: Obviously tank the lynch (which my buddies didn't see at the end) because I was getting lynched anyway. Get lynched as close to deadline as possible to make every deadline short as fuck, as scum can continue dallying around, forcing dumb deadline lynches.

Communicate Plan B through the use of a coded jester message to ika.

Wake gets modkilled... no one asks about jester message.


*Titus pulls hair out and watches minimally.

Wake is an ass anyway

No I like him as a person and he's fun to play with. This game was just frustrating on sooo many levels.

TRUE. I've been gone to my other place, USMB, to take a break from Mafia to keep from blowing up or lashing out. It helps.

Anyhow, thanks for the game StrangerCoug and I thought it was really good modding (the town just shot themselves in the foot early on and felt the repercussions of underestimating banked deadlines).

And the town did a great job battling through the early apathy and finding the scum-team. Not to mention the gems in this game that really made me laugh.

Sorry for my early play and I hope I was able to make up for it.

GG everyone, sorry for some unavoidable absence in the endgame there, I'd like to think Brian and I would've hammered it out earlier if that wasnt the case.

Maybe. I had no intention of lynching you and I secretly wanted to see you eat a bullet at the end until I saw you switch focus onto Sthar (which made me really sad).

If there is one thing I'm good at, its making believable claims.

I don't know. Your retract onto the BP was the most believable part but you were obviously not a gunsmith and I'm surprised no one caught onto that on Day 2. Seeing you carry out "I'm a gunsmith but not really a 'gunsmith'" from Day 3 onwards was just painful and annoying to watch for me. Regardless, very well played by you and Sthar8.

I'm curious though, why did you decide to retract your claim when you did? I have a theory about it, but I don't know if it's right.

Oh man this would have been a storm for the ages.

I'm actually kind of sad this never happened. It could have been Anything Goes revisited (but with GREAT JUSTICE!!!).

I still don't get why everyone thought Thez was scum lol.

50% I really just wanted to lynch Thez for reasons I don't understand myself.
30% Flowcharts and not wanting to hear bullshit from Bro/PA if Thez really was the last scum.
10% Displaced was being really persuasive and pulling out the same things I was looking at with regards to Thez.
10% Fuck ponies and fake gladiates.

I also may or may not been playing most of this game a day behind in terms of information because of the short deadlines. Like, somebody would mention something in the thread, and I would be like "Da fuq? When did this happen?"

I felt I made a very legitimate case in my last day.

It was really good and I quite enjoyed looking through it before hammering Sthar8.

I read in another thread that he was under the impression he was posting securely offsite so might just be unlucky rather than an ass?

This might be the case. But I really think Wake really has good intentions in his games and he just gets a bad rap for it because people just don't understand where he's coming from.

Like, I remember his gambit in Nobody Special's large normal. It was really weird, but I could see where he was coming from despite all the people hating on him for it.

Wake's a real nice guy on the occasions I've talked to him privately.

Strictly from a game design point of view, a happily ever after scenario should end in a draw. Like , I don't know how you cab actually defend any other decision on that. Its the equivalent of both teams just taking off their gear and walking away in the middle of a ballgame.

When I played Mafia before coming here, everyone would gambit and it was treated differently than here. Now that I understand that it's received differently here, I've adapted and now do them very rarely. SOme people from elsewhere would do even more outrageous gambits, but we wouldn't make a big angry deal about it, because it was a game where we had fun. It wasn't the big serious business kind of thing.

I AM a nice guy, too, when not under pressure or stress, lol. I've got to work on that weakness.

[Drunken Lies]

Gambits have their place for sure but I draw the line at town gambits that only end up confusing people's read on you rather than actually catching scum (like fake claiming mason as town).

[Drunken Lies]

That was me ETL

[AngryPidgeon]

Gambits have their place for sure but I draw the line at town gambits that only end up confusing people's read on you rather than actually catching scum (like fake claiming mason as town).

You werent even in NY 165

[Natirasha]

Or OCRemix.

[notscience]

But hey, at least the gambiters got lynched there!

rofl

[Drunken Lies]

Gambits have their place for sure but I draw the line at town gambits that only end up confusing people's read on you rather than actually catching scum (like fake claiming mason as town).

You werent even in NY 165

No but I was in one where ABR claimed mason D1 to save his ass from a lynch and SCUM ended up claiming his buddy! Guess who won that game.

[thezmon221]

I felt I made a very legitimate case in my last day.

It was really good and I quite enjoyed looking through it before hammering Sthar8.

Glad I could be of use in helping us win, and that my presence was not in vain.

[Mac]

Congrats town! Wasn't sure if you were going to make the deadline for a while.

just wanted to fire off a quick super apology to everyone here, mod and players, for having to replace out so late. had a shitty couple of months just past.