Anything Goes Mafia - Day 7

[BBmolla]

Or I could have claimed mason with you.

That would have been glorious. Although DGB/kuribo would have probably called bullshit on it :/

You could be mod confirmed town and they'd call bullshit on it

^Truth

[BBmolla]

Can I see mafia qt?

[mastin2]

I can look at a playerlist and know what I have to do, who to pull in and what challenges I am going to face when getting anything done.

Same for me, and I'm even considering writing an MD article on it. You'll see it throughout the scum QT, in fact. I profiled every single player, their strengths, their weaknesses, and how to handle them at the beginning, and continued updating those profiles even into the endgame.

-every single "strong" town player scumreads me and simultaneously complains that Im suspicious of all of them.

AP, your one fault this game was not realizing this might be on your end. When I said I was 100% certain you were flipping scum, that wasn't me-as-scum making a claim I knew to be false. I was certain this was your scumgame despite me being scum. :P That should be a sign of something having gone horribly,

horribly

wrong in your posting; I didn't know HOW you were scum, but I thought you HAD to be.

Mastin was SO SURE we were going to flip scum I was a little paranoid.

Again, not a faked scumread. I legitimately thought a town-you would have realized, "Oh,

fuck me

, he's not scum bullshitting" or something to that effect, because I WASN'T BSing that--that you DIDN'T have that doubt only convinced me FURTHER that you were actually somehow scum. :P

I could say it was that he was less involved than he would be as town, and that was part of it probably.

While this SHOULD be a tell, sadly, it is not one; I'm falling behind on all my games, hydra ones in particular. :/

Still love you mastin, but seriously you wrote a wall about how you were falling asleep at your keyboard and apparently people were like LOLMASTIN about it instead of realizing how full of it you were.

I, uh, actually wasn't lying. The next day? I woke up with no memory of having typed that post at all, because I quite literally fell asleep the moment I hit submit. :P

And Im pissed because I TRIED this game.

You lost because I tried harder. :P
Seriously, I basically won through SHEER FORCE OF WILL. :P

Butyeah, you graduated from my teaching, so I think you already know that you need to

not

try so hard. There's a difference between putting effort into the game and writing novels about the game; you crossed into the latter.

One of the main flaws you had this game was arrogance. In the dead QT, of course (although you didn't have it nearly as bad as someone else, you have to admit it's still there quite strongly), but even in the game-thread. Yeah, arrogance ultimately justified (the only thing you got wrong was which mislynch in lylo would win us the game, though if I was dropping the hammer, even that would have been correct :P), but other players aren't going to react very well to that.

I largely attribute my scum win to me going ridiculously humble on people and not imposing. I put that same effort into the game, even if focused on getting others not to lynch me, but my tone made all the difference. Your tone made you look like scum; mine made me look like town. (Well, town to those alive.)

Huh so I just read that Kat is claiming he gladiated us on N1 and it failed. Blatant lie? Weird.

The plan was to write it off as Katsuki joking. But in lylo, there was speculation about a strong scum role, like roleblocker, so we just sat there in silence and let the violation of occam's razor work in our favor. :P

I wish I had the chance to just post mastin's read list in color code. So incriminating >.>

Yep! Know what one of the scariest moments in the game for me was? Brian Skies pointing out I townread all the scum. He dropped it because his theory was that I was a traitor, when that was proven impossible. But if he had extensive knowledge of a scum-me, he wouldn't have been so quick to have let that go. :P As it was, I liked how I handled it, and I think I did a good job of making it be seen as acceptable and directing attention elsewhere, but needless to say, that was an absolutely terrifying moment for me.

Unmasked/Brian/Marquis lylo.
Its going to be a difficult win for scum, but damn it actually looks possible for them despite the Sven modkill.

You have no clue how close we actually came to doing this. But, ultimately, like with DGB, I couldn't take the risk that the townread (well, lack of scumread) would hold. (Apparently justifiably so, as if we hadn't killed Marquis, we'd have died.)

EDIT: Regardless, I scumhunt based on play and trollie is virtually conf scum
Ok mastin. Why do you even think Trollie is scum, you've barely mentioned him all game. Someone call him out on this crap, tia >.>

Was that seriously a Mastin post? That sounds more like Kats than me.

Im completely amazed at Mastin's ability to be on people's shortlist yet still not get lynched or pressured.
------------
Game continues to be mind blowing. People realize Unmasked is scum but wont vote them for whatever reason.

Like I said...sheer. force. of. will. :P

The "deliberately make typos to make it seem like I'm falling asleep at the computer" and "I am not a strong player--Katsuki is a WAY better player than me" quotes were by far the best.

See above about the falling asleep. That wasn't a lie; I actually DID. And I meant what I said about Katsuki. You can say that I played a part in winning this game, but it was a good 60-75% Katsuki. So Katsuki really IS a better player than me--a better SCUM player. :P

Yes, the way Mastin and Katsuki have handled their hydra is probably the most objectively scummy thing about the slot. They have been EXTREMELY calculating with who posts what when. That's a huge hydra scumtell for me.

It would have been if it was intentional, but I swear, that's a coincidence. :P

That'll be fun to watch, especially after he implied that she's not a player worth his time.

PA most certainly was a player worth our time. Throughout the game, she was consistently commented on in the scum QT, and I knew that her/Mala would be an absolute pain in the ass considering BOTH of them had intimate knowledge of my scumgame and an inherent distrust of me. (From Les Mis and Mind Reader, as just a start.)

I'm really surprised nobody caught that.

We did; we knew Ghostlin was a PR early-on. We elected to ignore it, regrettably, but we had him as a NK target the whole time.

I'd expect mastin/katsuki to yell at him about this.

I do all of my browsing offline, so I don't have access, there.

His justifications of his scumread on us are the most egregious case of overemphasizing that I've ever seen. If I'm able to catch a liar tell that isn't language formality that instantly, it's pretty blatant.

Funny you should mention that, considering

my scumread on you was the only thing I

wasn't

faking

. :P

I'm incredibly frustrated because this should have been an easy win at this point.

You can argue town incompetence, but you have to acknowledge player skill (Katsuki) and drive (me) also played a part. I can pretty much say that with no ego attached. How much of one you think it is, sure, that can vary. (My reasons for not thinking it's town incompetence aren't because I think I'm that good. It's because I hold respect for PA/Malakittens/Brian Skies, enough to where I don't think they played incompetently. They're not incompetent in general, and they actually tried, really, REALLY hard this game, especially in lylo, to figure it out. They got it wrong, but that is not incompetence.)

Mastin's blatant lying also doesn't help. He's thrown out like 100000000000000000 liar tells at this point.

The most effective lie is the truth; I, uh...really wasn't lying that much. :P

How do you be obvscum from day 1 and still not have everyone reading you as scum by day 6....

Well, for a start, you had bias. You knew I was scum and that everyone else was town;

they

did not. Furthermore, there's also the fact that dead players are dead for good reason, and I was tailoring my manipulation specifically to the living players. I didn't need to convince a dead BROseidon I was town; I needed to convince the living players I was.

scum was pretty obviously shooting either DGB or mollie N1

Yep! You can thank MinaTammy for us choosing mollie.

I dont see how katsuki can muster the strength to keep going at this point.

And that's where my portion of the victory comes in! Katsuki probably wouldn't have mustered the strength--a royally-ticked-off Mastin who was absolutely passionate about the game, on the other hand... :P

I still think Katsuki did a great job this game. Seriously he was the one force in the thread that made me want to rage and spam. And I mean he was scum so props for that.

Thus, why Katsuki gets most of the credit. I don't think my contributions are easily discarded (I helped the spam D3 a lot), but Katsuki was the real star, here.

We had to PM actions and kills individually rather than post them in the QT.

Contributing to the frustration levels. Seriously, pretty much every mod on the site allows for QT submissions AND for submitting-for-teammates. Having grown accustomed to that (it's never NOT existed in my scum games), then having this? Was a good way to give me incentive not to lose.

Seriously, the mods ticking me off was more motive for me to win than any of the players in the game. :P

So...I found out that apparently, the vig was going to kill Sven anyway.
And now, Sven was modkilled AND the deadline for night actions was extended.

I actually griped about this in the mafia QT. A seriously long-winded rant about it, in fact. I think it's about here that I gave up on winning the game through traditional scum tactics such as strategy, manipulation, wifom, nightkills, and such, and instead began relying on the force of sheer willpower. :P

Turning around and calling Turkish Van 100% confirmed scum as well as Trollie and saying they'll lynch her if the game doesn't end with his flip, though...that's kind of a transparent attempt to set up her mislynch after Trollie goes. I mean, there's obviously only one scum left (although tell that to Katsuki, who is convinced Marquis is our second traitor).

Blatantly, but actually not something I wouldn't have done as town, and not something I was going to use as you might think.

You'd EXPECT me to turn it into a blind TV tunnel. My plan was actually to have a brief TV tunnel, be justifiably called out on the obsolete read, "realize" it was right, and have an excuse to waffle. Still a scum tactic, but not the scum tactic you assumed. :P

BRO, I understand you're upset, and your slot's reads this game have been mostly excellent (barring a few blips), but frankly, some of your posting in this thread is EXTREMELY insulting and more obnoxious than it needs to be.

This is also true.

I've never seen Katsuki try this hard

Kats might be more motivated as scum in general, but I think I riled up katsuki good and well this game.

mastin was fucking obvscum since they tried to lynch me for fakeclaiming.

Not for fakeclaiming. I said you were scum whose role happened to have a fruit vendor aspect to it, not that you weren't a fruit vendor at all. :P

@ Kuribo: it is insincere. His insecurities are pretty obvious. "Mastin" is 100% a mask.

This is true. I've hinted at it at times, said it explicitly in some obscure places, but the Mastin you see is not even close to the real me. Sometimes, I actually wish it was. But it's not. :/
The real me? Is plagued my self-doubt, utter lack of confidence, very poor decision-making skills, and is essentially a nervous wreck. That's not someone I'm fond of being.

[BBmolla]

Same for me, and I'm even considering writing an MD article on it.

You should honestly.

[mastin2]

Anyway,

The Mafia QT is here.

Yes, it's nearly as long as the dead QT. (There's a REASON I was surprised the dead QT surpassed the mafia one. )

Since I actually know how to do so, here's a link to the beginning.
If top-down is your preference, there's this.

I enter into the game here (ahahahaha, my post 34, how true it was), but my posting doesn't truly begin until HERE, and I

highly

encourage reading that, as it gives you an intimate understanding of my approach as scum. In particular, my analysis of each player begins at 77, and continues into the next section, and finishes in the NEXT. (I particularly am fond of 101, though sven's is honestly better.)

Re-reading them, with one or two exceptions, I think you can see how eerily-accurate they were.

[mastin2]

Same for me, and I'm even considering writing an MD article on it.

You should honestly.

If you read my early mafia QT posts, you'll see some of what I'm talking about, but it also applies to my town-games, and there's more to it than that.

Basically, I get to intimately know the players, and understand them. As scum, to manipulate them. As town, to work with them and (equally as important) read them. If you bother to read the QT, you'll see how effective that technique was. I hadn't even played as extensively as I now have with some of these players, and yet, my predictions were mostly entirely accurate. How? Because I

know

them. I GET them. I've put the time and effort into seeing their play, and from that, extrapolating what's effectively a mental model of them not just as a player, but also a person.

It's not perfect, but it's why I'm at least a decent player.

[mastin2]

Also, in case people ARE too lazy to read the mafia QT...

By bringing your A-game, you can make it work.

And I really, REALLY want to make this work. If you couldn't tell by my write-up, I want to give this game 100%. I ask all of you to do the same. Because I think we can win it. These players aren't weak. We're not up against an easy town. This will be a hard game, hard-fought no matter what. But all said and done, if I lose, I want it to be because they played better, not because we weren't playing our best. If we win, I want it to be because we EARNED our win, because we FOUGHT for our win, because we did our damnedest to achieve victory.

In short, I want this to be a game where we EARN a scummy nom, because the town was strong yet we were stronger. I want to give that effort, that strength, that passion to this game. I realize it's a lot to ask of you. I realize that I'm basically asking you all to do something which is going to at least be outside your normal boundaries a minimum of a little bit. I don't want to make you uncomfortable. But even if we lose...I want us to have fought to our very last breath.

In short?

I'm asking for one simple thing:

Give them hell.

Aside from the scummy nom (I'll be nominating Katsuki, but that's not specific to this game), mission accomplished for the most part. While neither side played their strongest possible game and there were a lot of mistakes by both sides...we did exactly this, and I'm proud of my scumteam for having done so. :')

I say it later in the mafia QT. But this game, despite me having been absent for a section of the game, despite being in a hydra with Katsuki, despite having made some bad NK decisions (that, fortunately, my scumbuddies mostly overrode), I consider this to be my strongest scum game of all time. Never have I put more of my heart and soul into winning. I started with it, and I ended with it even stronger than I started. Was certainly a lot of fun.

[mastin2]

Other notable QT posts:

I also find it ironic that people consider my posting to be better.

Every time I'm hitting submit, I'm having a panic attack. "Oh dear gods, please don't let that be seen as a scum post". "Oh, dear gods, I hope I got that sounding okay". "Oh, dear gods, I hope nobody noticed the scumminess there".

Whereas with Katsuki's posting? I'm reading it and going, "DAMN." pausing, and then finishing, "That's awesome."

I legitimately, seriously, think Katsuki's posting is much stronger than mine, and yet, despite that, Katsuki's the one people are doubting to be town and I'm the one they're townreading.

By nightkilling stronger players, we leave weaker players. Weaker players who're less charismatic and easier to fool.

(Solid scum advice, by the way.)

And, by the way. I know it looks like a lot of people are scumreading me. I know it looks like I'm in trouble. But believe me, I'm doing just fine. Like I said, it was a calculated risk, a gambit I chose to take. If you can stall the lynch long enough (and make sure it's not on me ) for me to get caught up, I can guarantee you--I'll be universally seen as town, and any thinking I'm scum will themselves be scumread by the town.

For instance, I only glanced at the responses, but a few players like Mac and Desperado have fallen into traps that I laid via jumping onto me.

Okay, so my reread tactic didn't pan out, and we ended up dayvigging Desperado, and weren't universally-townread, but still, you get the idea. I had a plan.

There may be no scum agenda being pushed right now, but trust me, that'll turn. And believe me when I say, scum not pushing an agenda can actually make for a long-term payoff, because town--EXPECTING there to be a scum agenda--will come to faulty conclusions about what said scum agenda is.

I don't remember the context of this, but I love the quote all the same.

And, I don't know how.
But AP's scum.

Period.

This is, legitimately, not his townplay.

He's not this dense. Any rational player would have shown reason, shown reevaluation of their reads. AP's not doing that at all. He's stubbornly refusing to change his reads, when they are without rhyme or reason and everything he does goes against logic. He's discrediting people like crazy, his posts are highly-hypocritical, he's ignoring the circumstances of things, he's playing against everything that a town-him stands for.

I don't know what he is. But he sure as hell isn't town.

^Why I thought AP was scum despite being scum. Has follow-through, too.

AFB are not town. AP's not town. I don't know what game he's playing. But it sure as hell isn't a town one. He could be traitor-scum, he could be third-party scum. I don't know the specifics of him. But I swear to you. This. is not. a town. AP. I will repeat it as many times as needed to make it stick. He's not town.
------------
Basically...you know that scumread I have on him? It aint fake. For damn-good reason.
I'm dead serious. As scum playing with a town-AP, if he were actually be town, I'd be sheeping him. Not scumreading him. He is, seriously, legitimately, some kind of scum.

And, Kats, you shouldn't use our role. It'd be seen as what it is--you saving a scum-Waffles. Use it N3.

Actually, Kats. I change my mind.
Send it in.

(Game-changer right here.)

And I'll tell you why.

First off, Waffles are a likely vig/SK kill anyway, meaning that we can do it without it being to protect them. And even IF Waffles doesn't die, we can quite reasonably justify it as us having EXPECTED them to die.

Furthermore...I guarantee it. 100%. AP is not town. I might not be able to read him like a book...but I have a damn-good grasp on his play in general. This might not be an exact match for his scumplay, but it sure as hell isn't his townplay. He is scum. Of some kind. He will not flip town. What he WILL flip, hell if I know; he's obviously not groupscum. But he IS scum, plain and simple, and thus, a fight against him is entirely reasonable.

It's risky, yes. But I definitely think it should be done, now.

Yes, AP, I thought you were scum a LOT. When I said I wasn't lying about my scumread on you, that, well, wasn't a lie. It happened to serve me well come near-lylo, where I pointed out quite legitimately that I thought you were scum,

so

badly. Honestly, me thinking you were scum should have been obvious to you; I was so ridiculously genuine there that you shoulda realized I wasn't lying.

So my certainty is exaggerated, but the read is not.
I am dead-serious.
I don't know how. But I do know that AP's not town. That scumread is 100% real. Not fake. Not made because I need to manipulate the town. I seriously, legitimately, believe 100% that AFB is some sort of not-town role. What the hell he actually is, not a damn clue. Could be serial killer, could be AIDs-giver, but HE. IS. NOT. TOWN. And I meant it when I said that.

I'm still not certain they're flipping town. God help us if they flip traitor-usurper (and a massive middle finger to the mods if so), but I still don't think they're flipping town. I'll say it again. I don't know how. Yes, they've got things dead-on. But no...this is not their town-selves having done so. So SOMEHOW, they're scum. I just don't understand how.

Butyeah. If we go out, go out guns a blazin. We're going to fight to the bitter end.

And it payed off! This is why you NEVER give up in games.

Grr.

I realize that the mods probably had good reason for the modkill.

But. Really?

REALLY?!?

...You couldn't have at least waited until day, AFTER town PR's decisions were locked in to have done so? Giving them a chance with this additional flip to change their night actions? Giving them effectively a free lynch? REALLY?

This game really is one giant massive middle finger to the scum. >_<

The beginning of my ranting. I go on another posting splurge here, planning and plotting for the rest of the game. I highly recommend reading some.

We lynch Trollie.
We nightkill DGB.
We lynch Marquis.
We nightkill Mac.

And we're left in a lylo with Brian Skies, ourselves, and turkish van.

Okay, so we lynched mac and nightkilled Marquis, but same end result.
There's some analysis here, but it's mainly me chanting a Madness Mantra.
The first half here is the same, but the second half has analysis in it.
The plan concludes here, and the rest of my posting is basically tweaking and refining the formula.

So, basically.

I've often said in games that "I didn't give this game my all". I didn't give 100% of my scumgame. I wasn't in top-form. Yet if people asked me to point to a game where I WAS, to point to a game I consider to be me in my best shape as scum, I wouldn't be able to come up with one.

But after this game is over? Seriously, legitimately, I'm going to point here and say, "This? THIS. Is me at 100%."

(Though, admittedly, my QT posting is MUCH stronger than my in-thread posting.)
Some more analysis here, if you're interested. I enter into endgame-analysis mode here, but it's mainly here, and concludes here.

I [liked TV's wall] too, but I ALSO liked Brian Skies's wall, and one of them "has" to be scum despite making a good wall.
------------
(Basically, from an outside perspective, TV was town, BS was town, and we would logically therefore be scum. We can't exactly say that in-thread, though. We can say that both walls were good, but we have to 'analyze' them, thinking one of them is going to be scum, and personally, my "take" on it is that TV's wall was more likely scum than BS's walls were.)

Side-note, but I was basically treating the last day as if I were town being left to hammer, even before the votes came down. Not sure I ever said that in the QT; I know I didn't say it in-thread. (Though I considered it!)

[notscience]

Mastin can you link me the dead QT please

[notscience]

these are going to take longer to read than the 50 shades trilogy

or hop on pop

[mastin2]

It's here.

I got it through the network of MS.net users I belong to. You could say "black market", but I prefer the term web of allies.

[BROseidon]

Mastin, it's ironic that you called AP scum for inflexible reads when everyone else complained about our reads moving too quickly. A lot of what you were picking up was probably my posting, since I tend to get super assholish as town.

[BBmolla]

I came in expecting analysis on myself, got "Don't know who this is"

Sven believing my claim as scum is really funny though

[BROseidon]

Also lol @mina calling scum gladiator weak.

It's insanely broken.

[BROseidon]

Mastin's analysis of dgb is spot on

[BBmolla]

The reason I didn't claim cop fwiw is I was going to claim it d3, realized Katsuki was soft claiming it and that'd I soft cc, then I had to hard cc and had to make it obvious Mina/Tammy was my usurp target when I went down.

Not foolproof, but it did it. Much preferable to me randomly getting killed by the mafia and then mina/tammy living to endgame.

[BROseidon]

In what universe is mollie underrated?

She's one of the strongest players on site IMO

[BBmolla]

Regarding molla... I think he's quite unpredictable personally.

Good enough.

[mastin2]

Mastin, it's ironic that you called AP scum for inflexible reads when everyone else complained about our reads moving too quickly. A lot of what you were picking up was probably my posting, since I tend to get super assholish as town.

Well, AP said it himself; you posted so much like AP that *AP* couldn't tell it wasn't him. It's quite possible that influenced me just as much.

Your reads actually didn't change much; you had the same reads more or less on D1 that you had on D3. Your posting was all over the place, moving too quickly. Your strength, your reasoning, fluctuated wildly. But your actual reads didn't, not too much anyway.

I came in expecting analysis on myself, got "Don't know who this is"

I think I did eventually give some. "Oh. Well, then." And gave some. I think it was more or less along the lines of "decent, but in this game, a mislynch". Would have to check.

In what universe is mollie underrated?

She's one of the strongest players on site IMO

She's quickly gaining the reputation for such, but she certainly didn't have it at this game's start.

[BROseidon]

A major part of the problem was me/AP working our back end faster than the game. That's a major part of why we were so spot on, but it was probably a pain for everyone else who didn't have our 300+ QT posts

[BROseidon]

Our in game posts+QT almost quadrupled UK.

Wow...

[Brian Skies]

Yep! Know what one of the scariest moments in the game for me was? Brian Skies pointing out I townread all the scum. He dropped it because his theory was that I was a traitor, when that was proven impossible. But if he had extensive knowledge of a scum-me, he wouldn't have been so quick to have let that go. As it was, I liked how I handled it, and I think I did a good job of making it be seen as acceptable and directing attention elsewhere, but needless to say, that was an absolutely terrifying moment for me.

If you really want to know how much you dodged that bullet, I was actually staring at those posts here. AFB referred to it as a wild goose chase and I dropped it. The bullshit I was referring to were those posts, not anything that had to do with AP. I actually thought AP was town, I just didn't think I had the pull to do anything to save him after what happened on Day 2. I revisited it because I remember Katsuki trying to tie me to AFB right after I mentioned those posts (and I missed it on my final re-read of the game; it probably would have gotten you lynched).

Better strat would have been to hold it until LyLo while removing people who would have backed us (TV, p5, possibly Brian), and then gladiate in LyLo for the insta-win

And yes, I would have backed you extremely hard if you had given me the light of day. But because I know charisma isn't one of my strengths, I kind of needed your support before I could make that push.

[CrashTextDummie]

GG, scum! Really entertaining game. I blame Marquis for our loss.

Favorite scum QT moment: Waffles trying to give Desperado AIDS and ending up giving it to Elyse instead. Legit hilarious.

[pirate mollie]

reading the wreck and havoc that frat bros created for the scumteam had me laughing and brought a tear of joy to my eye

scum was wifoming themselves all over the place about them.

what I find really funny is how scum had fratbros, dgb and kuribo as possible traitors yet frat bros are being singled out for bad play. their reads were dead-on and I am just annoyed with myself that I got in a tizzy and suggested they be vigged.

[Katsuki]

I don't know why everyone thinks holding onto the gladiate isn't scummy? It's like holding onto a dayvig... If I saw anyone holding onto gladiates I'd probably instalynch them.

I guess for you guys it would not be scummy, but if kuribo, ghostlin, dgb, etc saw me holding onto a gladiate despite my calls for BLOOD, I would've been lynched ASAP. Guess times are changing.


As for the AIDS, another look into how well things were going for us at that point haha