Open 32 - Pick Your Poison Mafia (Game Over!), before 470

[Shanba]

The thing to do move things is to lynch Setael.

[White]

Mod, what's the progress on Xyzzy?

[Guardian]

I'm still here... still want to hear from xyzzy... I prodded Thesp, in case this slipped of his radar...

Setael, let us know what you think after reread.

I'd like to hear what

everyone

thought of the me-Setael interaction. Even Jdodge .

[Thin_Man]

I see your points against Seteal, but I think Jdodge is a fair bit scummier, sorry.

Jack White and Rishi are blatantly town, Shanba I think has been acting generally town, and there was that last minute attack by Mneme to help it. I'm fairly confident Guardian is town.

I'm fairly confident the last 2 scum are within Patrick, Jdodge, Setael and Xyzzy.

[Thesp]

Day 3 Official Vote Count

xyzzy

- 2 (Guardian, Rishi)

Setael

- 2 (Shanba, Patrick)

JDodge

- 1 (Thin_Man)

Not Voting

- 4 (xyzzy, White, JDodge, Setael)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Prodding everyone who hasn't posted since Saturday. xyzzy picked up his prod but has not posted, and will be replaced.

[Guardian]

I agree with TM's 403 except for his assertion that Jdodge is the scummiest.

I re-read the game and I still want xyzzy (or a replacement) lynched, with Setael as my second choice. I have little preference between the two.

White is very likely to be town, Shanba is probably town too. Everyone else is in the gray area.

[Setael]

Reread done and I've almost finished my player analysis - should be able to post it tomorrow.

[White]

Great! Thanks Setael. Shanba is iffy territory for me so i'll go ahead and do an isolation read on him. TM is interesting because I agree with many of his posts but he's almost unreadable.

[JDodge]

Shanba sounds like a good idea for a wagon

Vote: Shanba

[Patrick]

Got my prod. Will post here tomorrow, and yeah I'll look at the Setael/Guardian debate.

[Shanba]

Shanba sounds like a good idea for a wagon

Vote: Shanba

try harder.

[Rishi]

Shanba sounds like a good idea for a wagon

Vote: Shanba

try harder.

I don't think you're scum, but you have been acting somewhat cocky in this game lately, and I'm not sure why.

In any case, I don't see this game moving forward until we get a replacement for xyzzy.

[White]

That's Jdodge for you.

Second the motion to forcefully replace xyzzy if necessary.

[Shanba]

Shanba sounds like a good idea for a wagon

Vote: Shanba

try harder.

I don't think you're scum, but you have been acting somewhat cocky in this game lately, and I'm not sure why.

In any case, I don't see this game moving forward until we get a replacement for xyzzy.

Yeah, I have. Jdodge's comment annoyed me.

[somestrangeflea]

That's Jdodge for you.

Seconded.

Second the motion to forcefully replace xyzzy if necessary.

Thirded.

[Rishi]

Isn't SSF dead in this game?

[Shanba]

Uh, yes he is. I hadn't noticed. Flea, stop posting, you're dead.

[Patrick]

I'm thinking maybe he's going to be replacing xyzzy. Pure guesswork though.

[White]

Hmm, t'would be a replacement for the better. 1 post every few pages > no posts every few pages.

But I think Jordan can get better than that.

[Patrick]

Meh. Looking back at the conversation I had with Setael I had nearer the start of today, I'm still not fond of her reasons for unvoting Shanba and switching to mneme. The stated reason for moving off Shanba is plausible but still looks a bit convenient, and I have some trouble believing Setael really thought mneme needed an extra vote to give him enough incentive to claim. I still have this feeling she may have just made up those reasons on the spot.

I'm a bit confused by the case Setael made against Guardian btw.

I was assuming everyone agreed with my suspicions of Schiz which would give you more motivation to do something which would get rid of them.

Any posts in particular that lead you to assume that everyone agreed with your suspicions of schiz?

[Setael]

I haven't had time to finish my analysis, so I'm going to post what I've got and finish as soon as I get a chance.

White (replacing Ms Piggy, Jack)

Ms. Piggy did a lot of vote hopping with very little explanation behind any of them, and then hammered SSF. Jack replaces. The first part of his first post I find interesting.

On reading the setup,

I would say obviously the mafia will pick roleblocker and doc. No way they choose cop

.

Mert seems pro town, calling for a claim that early seems bold for scum. Oh wait he died so this is right.

Patricks vote on him for it being too early seems a bit like an obvious town post ie slightly scummy.

He says here that Patrick is scummy for making an obvious town post. I would definitely categorize the rest of Jack's post here (bolded parts) as "obvious town statements" which is ironic.

Says xyzzy's play seems poor and he can see why SSF got lynched, but doesn't give his reasoning behind either opinion, just refers to a couple of posts. Thinks dylan's scummy. A couple of posts later says he did some reading and changed his mind, but doesn't share his reasons or what he found. Votes mneme, unvotes and votes Thin_Man, saying he thinks Thin_Man is trying to save dylan. Makes a case against mneme, sticks to it.

White replaces in. Votes xyzzy right off, FOS's JDodge for lurking. Presents solid arguments against both xyzzy and Thin_Man. Thinks Guardian's breakdown of my case was the cat's pajamas. Tries to get JDodge to give his thoughts on the game.

Conclusion: Ms. Piggy and Jack did some things that could definitely be scum tells, but Jack's stance on the mneme wagon felt legitimate and White's play has felt pro-Town.

Probably Town

.

Jdodge

- Back and forth between him and xyzzy. Votes SSF for being afraid of drawing suspicion. Hammers mneme. Other than that, practically no content. The hammer came out of left field. It didn't seem like people were all that sure about mneme. His odd stab at Shanba was my only reason for thinking he was scum, and regardless of what has been suggested, I expected conversation to continue and mneme to claim or at least provide a defense.

Regardless of his abrupt hammer, he was this lurky and unhelpful in another game I'm in and he came up Town.

Probably Town

.

Patrick

- Votes mert for telling xyzzy to claim. Agrees that SSF's mindset is scummy, but keeps vote on mert. Claims schiz and SSF's votes on mert are scummy.

You hammered him without a claim. Just wow. I really hope you are not protown after that.

If SSF is protown and I'm dead overnight, obviously look heavily at Ms Piggy. I know it pretty much goes without saying. FoS: Ms Piggy

This is one of those things Jack pointed out as an "obvious town statement". I agree. It feels contrived.

Casts suspicion on Shanba, Honory Hitchhiker and Dylan; votes Dylan. Wavers on Dylan, says he'll unvote if Dylan gets close to a lynch. Defends his twilight statement. Defends against mneme, who accused him of lurking, questions mneme's scum list. Asks Shanba about her HH hunch. Gives a wishy washy stance on Jack. Says something seems odd in Shanba & Thin_Man's interaction but doesn't go into it.

I found this statement odd:

Don't see the Rishi suspicion. Obv didn't like his suspicions of me (which were backtracked on).

You think Rishi backtraced, but don't see the Rishi suspicion?

Next post, says he doesn't think Shanba's explanation of his lie was scummy, votes mneme. Unvotes, tells mneme to claim. Says he thinks last 2 mneme votes were bussing and that Jack/White is Town. Votes me. Says my reasoning for voting mneme is not bad but could've been bussing. Says mneme was wishy washy on Dylan but then looks back and says mneme was wishy washy on many players. For all this talk about wishy washiness, he's doing a lot of it himself. All in all,

Probably Scum

.

Thin Man (replacing Honary Hitchhiker)

- Thin Man (replacing Honary Hitchhiker) – HH’s first few posts seemed scummy to me. He calls out Mert for vote hopping, but the second Mert defends himself, HH backs way off and says “Sorry, didn’t know”. His argument still stands – Mert was vote hopping without giving reasons. HH’s reaction to Mert’s defense looked like HH was trying to avoid being in the spotlight/avoid suspicion at all costs. Really wishy washy about xyzzy in his next post. Votes xyzzy, hasn’t given any concrete reasons. Again gives some textbook wishy washiness:

I'm pretty content with my vote on xyzzy however I have some doubts on him actually being scum instead just a townie making some scummy plays. Reason being on my vote is that xyzzy claming certain people as scum which is fine but not explaining much for his actions and there isn't really evidence on how they are indeed scum. This vote might change as the game goes on.

Thin_Man replaces in. As has been pointed out, Thin_Man immediately votes mneme after replacing in.

Ok.

I agree with Jack regarding pretty much everything he posted regarding mneme, so I won't repeat that.

Re: Pat, twilight. Talking in twilight more common. I think the point about whether patrick is more likely to vent his frustration either way is weak. One thing I do dislike about it, though, is the fact it feels to me a little boilerplate, like a 'required townie response', just in the tone. That's just a feeling though.

@Shanba: You were fairly promising when you joined the site. Since then, though, you seem to have really dropped into mediocrity. It's a pity.

@Jdodge: Are you playing anything like you normally do as scum in this game? (genuine question)

I'm a little suspicious of JDodge, simply because he's usually active as town. But I've been wrong before.... *ahem*

Do you consider yourself stupid, then?

I was suspicious of Shanba when I replaced in (though to be far I was suspcious of nearly everyone when I replaced in, though I tend to remember my suspicions of experienced players more, for some reason). Seteals points are actually quite good, but there's something to shanba which I don't quite want to lynch yet. I would prefer Mneme at present, still by quite a way, though. That said, I'm also beginning to get annoyed by my lack of opinions regarding other people in the game. I can conclusively say my opinions regarding a few people in the game, but there are a lot that I can't, either because they just haven't been around enough for me to be happy reading them or simply because I just ain't done it yet. I'll try and remedy the second half.

The sentence about Shanba is weird, I guess just in how wishy washy it is. Says he was suspicious of Shanba but gives no reason why, and then distracts from it by saying he was suspicious of everyone. I found it interesting that he said he was getting annoyed with his lack of opinions regarding the people in the game. I want to see this as a Town tell, but WIFOM kicks in since I think Thin_Man is experienced enough at this game that anything that seems Town could be him trying to look Town.

Says xyzzy is worthy of a bandwagon, and he’ll likely join it shortly. Instead, votes JDodge (after being told mneme would've been deadline lynched without the hammer).

Conclusion: Could go either way. HH was pretty scummy, but Thin_Man's play I could see coming from either scum or Town. I know he's an experienced player, so that could be a lot of why it's tough for me to get a read on him (combined with the fact that he hasn't posted much content). So I guess I'm gonna say

Neutral

.

Guardian (replacing schismatized)

– I still find schismatized's play extremely scummy.

@Patrick: To clarify, I was more suspicious of xyzzy when i voted for mert, but i didnt and still dont think we have had enough discussion to end the day. Given that, i just voted for the next scummy person in my mind.

Then says to dylan:

If you think hes scum then vote for him. Asking someones permission looks like a setup for if he turns up town after lynch. You could easily say, "well xxxxx told me to vote for him."

Obvious double standard. Made a big deal about dylan's hesitation, but though he was most suspicious of xyzzy, he voted mert. His reason for everything he did was because he didn't think there had been enough discussion to lynch someone, but then he let SSF be lynched on a faster wagon than anyone else's was.

Guardian replaces. Like Thin_Man, votes mneme right off. Asks players for content. Congratulates the “doc/rb/other”.

Also, her first reason for finding me suspicious -- "hasn't done much lately" -- she basically admitted was a bullshit reason for finding me suspicious.

This is not accurate. At the time I posted that, Guardian had not posted much since the beginning of the new day. In my experience, he is much more outspoken than that. It seemed like he started lying low once suspicion was raised over his congratulating the doc/RB/other. The only thing I have said is that I can understand him being more quiet since his main suspect (xyzzy) is totally absent, therefore giving him little content to dissect. That hardly amounts to “admitting it’s a bullshit reason.”

To answer Patrick's question - no one ever refuted my schizmatized suspicions and I think they are very solid. This led to me assuming others agreed until Rishi's post which made me realize I was wrong.

Guardian, like Thin_Man I am mostly suspicious of because of the actions of their predecessors. Therefore, he also will be listed as

Neutral

for now, but more likely to be scum than some of the other players.

Shanba

– Like schiz, he unvoted xyzzy and said it was too early for a lynch, voted SSF and let that lynch happen. Says he didn’t remove SSF vote before hammer because he forgot about the game. I was very suspicious of Shanba when I first replaced in, but his defense/explanations have been good. Presented a decent case on mneme which he didn't back down from, and his admittance and explanation of the lie when it was unlikely anyone would’ve noticed all felt very Town to me. This combined with mneme jumping on it makes it likely he’s

Probably Town

.

I just need to reread xyzzy and Rishi. I'll get to it asap.

[Patrick]

Gives a wishy washy stance on Jack.

Where was this?

You think Rishi backtraced, but don't see the Rishi suspicion?

Come on. I'd have thought it's fairly difficult to misunderstand this post in the way you did unless you're skimming. I'm listing the people mneme was suspicious of, and I was one of those people. When I questioned mneme on that, he backtracked in a manner that suggested he hadn't really thought about it and had probably hoped I wouldn't question him on it.

Your assessment of JDodge seems odd. The fact that he was unhelpful in some game where he was town surely doesn't mean that posting next to no content here means he must be town here too. How do you think he behaves as scum?

[Setael]

He has posted more content in other games I am in, but I don't know his alignment in those. The one where he was this inactive he ended up being the doc. Anyone know if he's this inactive as scum?

Come on. I'd have thought it's fairly difficult to misunderstand this post in the way you did unless you're skimming. I'm listing the people mneme was suspicious of, and I was one of those people. When I questioned mneme on that, he backtracked in a manner that suggested he hadn't really thought about it and had probably hoped I wouldn't question him on it.

Once again, more reason to be suspicious of him than to say you don't understand the suspicions on Rishi.

[Patrick]

Once again, more reason to be suspicious of him than to say you don't understand the suspicions on Rishi.

I don't understand. I

was

suspicious of him. I didn't like his suspicions.

[Setael]

I'm still not really seeing the Rishi hate

, but I'd definitely like mneme to explain the discrepancy pointed out by Jack there.

I actually think it would be pretty useful to have JDodge answer Thin Man's question. The case against mneme is ok, and I'm not keen on his suspicions either. Well I can see the first half of his Thin Man suspicion based on Honary Hitchhiker, but Thin Man's behaviour of pushing without giving a reason and being uncommunicative at times is mostly null from what I know of him.

Don't see the Rishi suspicion.

Obv didn't like his suspicions of me (which were backtracked on). I'll wait for a votecount because I'm lazy, then probably vote mneme.

I looked back to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding. Both of these posts are you saying you don't "see" the Rishi hate or the Rishi suspicion. I read this as you not seeing or understanding why people are suspicious of Rishi. So... you're now saying you

were

suspicious of him, but just didn't like his suspicions of you? Your posts seem to contradict this. If I am missing something, please point it out.