Open 28 - Quack Mafia. OVER! But who won? before 466

[curiouskarmadog]

thank god, progress.

[d3sisted]

If a quack targets themself, do they die?

Sorry for all the questions, but quack mafia is relatively new for me.

[d3sisted]

I wouldn’t suggest anyone claim at the time being. Mafia’s priority is to kill the real doctors before dealing with the quacks. By disclosing the information they seek, we effectively abet the mafia.

I think our primary threat right now is not the mafia, but the quacks. We can win as long as we determine definitively who is a quack doctor. That being said, I think all of us, including mafia, should claim

who each of us targeted for N0

, and see if everything adds up. A "no vote" should also be viewed as suspicious. Remember, we can always disregard this information if it doesn't help.

I'd love to make the first "target claim", but I'm waiting for Thesp to dig out Dral's N0 choice.

[Stewie]

I'd love to make the first "target claim", but I'm waiting for Thesp to dig out Dral's N0 choice.

*pulls out crystal ball*

"It was fernando, so sayeth the crystal ball, and so it was."

Correct me if I'm wrong

[d3sisted]

First of all, please disregard my last post, I posted before reading through the entire thread. (Ironic how I made the same mistake as the replacement before me.)

@Stewie: Having been very cynical since the beginning, I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game. At any rate, doesn't hurt to be sure.

I think everyone got so caught up in trying to find the quack that we’ve forgotten our ultimate goal is to terminate the 3 scums. When a quack protects, he can ONLY hurt the other docs; the mafia is completely unaffected by the night choices. In fact, it is advantageous for the mafia if the town continues to send in night choices, as the quacks will ceaselessly tear the town apart. Might I then suggest that we play this game as though the setup were 9 Townies 3 Mafia by having all the doctors abstain from protecting?

[d3sisted]

Looking at the most recent votecount, I see 3 votes on Mert by Indy, Hjallti, and Curiouskarmadog, one of whom I suspect to be scum. Had they all been doctors, mafia already would’ve piled on for the hammer. Of the three, I suspected curious the most.

CKD was quick to target claim ‘nobody’, something I view as highly suspicious. For someone who habitually throws votes around on a whim, I doubt you would have been so cautious on N0.

what happens if a quack "protects" mafia..does that mafia die? Still trying to figure this game out.

so if you "protected" someone that is mafia, they would not die, right? So how do you know you protected someone successfully? Maybe you just targeted mafia.

It seems as though at N0, you assumed quacks could NK mafia, in which case you had no reason to give a no-vote.

Alright, heading to vacation (tomorrow morning) and will not be back until the 22nd. I will have limited access at best. At any rate..

Unvote Dral

The more I see this guy post, the more I think he more likely the VI (Village Idiot). His posts do have a scum taint to it, but he himself says he is usually lynched Day1 because of his play style…I just do not feel comfortable leaving my vote on him for a week.

If we should happen to go into night while I am away I will submit my night protection to the Mod (now). Will tell you upfront, going to protect Dral…you can work around that as you see fit.

Good luck town.

After post 152, where he smashes Dral for insubstantial arguments, he... unvotes? He’s even going to protect Dral for his night choice?! Then in 242, he votes Dral again stating “nothing has changed my view of Dral… so I shall resume my vote”. What in the flying fuck? What’s with the caprice there?

Well, for one, I didnt protect anyone last night as you well know (think that is your whole arguement as to why the town should lynch me). As I have said, I will not make that mistake twice.

So now that you KNOW your quack vote can only kill doctors but not mafia, you’re going to start using your night choices? Huh?

Piggy comes in for Dral but CKD refuses to let up. Starts to criticize anyone who doesn’t vote Piggy for being scummier than Dral. Also threatens to switch over to Mert, who happens to hold the second-most votes at the moment. I’m guessing that he realizes no one is going to push for Piggy’s lynch, so after one last attempt at converting the masses[325] he switches over to Mert.

I would like to hear form Mert. I posted my thoughts on him 7 days ago, and no response...maybe he decided to lurk unti the heat goes away, what do you think town?

Accuses Mert of lurking without considering inactivity, trying to use that as an excuse for others to join the BW. Asks for the town’s stance, most likely trying to gauge the likelihood of a Mert BW or rally more votes.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

[JDodge]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

[curiouskarmadog]

Now this replacement is scummy…

First we have…

In fact, it is advantageous for the mafia if the town continues to send in night choices, as the quacks will ceaselessly tear the town apart. Might I then suggest that we play this game as though the setup were 9 Townies 3 Mafia by having all the doctors abstain from protecting?

Then we have..

CKD was quick to target claim ‘nobody’, something I view as highly suspicious. For someone who habitually throws votes around on a whim, I doubt you would have been so cautious on N0.

which is followed by a vote on me. I already explained why I didn’t night choose, for much the same reason your previous post stated we should not night choose. Does it surprise me that you have voted for me, while my vote is on your scum buddy? No.

Looking at the most recent votecount, I see 3 votes on Mert by Indy, Hjallti, and Curiouskarmadog, one of whom I suspect to be scum. Had they all been doctors, mafia already would’ve piled on for the hammer. Of the three, I suspected curious the most.

Again, if you have read the thread, you will see that WE HAVE ONLY HAD 3 ACTIVE POSTERS!!! The Mod just started seeking 2-4 replacements…that is mostly likely the reason there has been no hammer. Another reason might be the town can not choose who is scummier you are Mert.

what happens if a quack "protects" mafia..does that mafia die? Still trying to figure this game out.

so if you "protected" someone that is mafia, they would not die, right? So how do you know you protected someone successfully? Maybe you just targeted mafia.

It seems as though at N0, you assumed quacks could NK mafia, in which case you had no reason to give a no-vote.

you are in insane..I was asking the question because I wasn’t she how the game was played..JUST LIKE you asked questions when you first got here.

I would like to hear form Mert. I posted my thoughts on him 7 days ago, and no response...maybe he decided to lurk unti the heat goes away, what do you think town?

Accuses Mert of lurking without considering inactivity, trying to use that as an excuse for others to join the BW. Asks for the town’s stance, most likely trying to gauge the likelihood of a Mert BW or rally more votes.

I did consider “inactivity”..he was posting in all of his other games except this one…if you metagamed (or even read this thread) you would know this.…that why I asked the mod to prod.

Well, for one, I didnt protect anyone last night as you well know (think that is your whole arguement as to why the town should lynch me). As I have said, I will not make that mistake twice.

So now that you KNOW your quack vote can only kill doctors but not mafia, you’re going to start using your night choices? Huh?

my god you

are

insane. I am scummy because I didnt night protect...now I am scummy because I will night protect...

if you read that whole post you would know why I am night protecting...because it helps the town decide who is scum...

I didn’t like Dral (played every scummy), I didn’t like Piggy, now this guy is here throwing around very CRAP LOGIC! He is stretching (I do not think it could be called stretching)...he is this crap case that doesnt make any since and is full of lies and leaps

That is three scummy people in a role…I didn’t think anyone could play scummier than Mert…but you took the cake.

Unvote
Vote d3sisted

[curiouskarmadog]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

what? did you just read the crap d3sisted wrote?

[JDodge]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

what? did you just read the crap d3sisted wrote?

Clearly you are not paying attention to think that my suspicion is based on that.

[JordanA24]

Erm, my vote's on d3sisted right? Good.

[Hjallti]

Looking at the most recent votecount, I see 3 votes on Mert by Indy, Hjallti, and Curiouskarmadog, one of whom I suspect to be scum. Had they all been doctors, mafia already would’ve piled on for the hammer. Of the three, I suspected curious the most.

Huh, so Mert is not scum for a fact. Nice logical flaw. Congrats. The only way your statement is true if Mert is no scum. IF you know that you must be scum yourself.

unvote

since the game might get speed while I am at limited access

FoS:mert&d3sisted

[curiouskarmadog]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

what? did you just read the crap d3sisted wrote?

Clearly you are not paying attention to think that my suspicion is based on that.

you are missing my point...

d3sisted didnt say anything about Indy..my point was: I can not see any town member reading the crap d3sisted posted and not finding it scummy to the nth degree. After he posted it, the only comment you made was, I still see a case for Indy..

I was asking you what about what d3sisted just posted...didnt that seem a little..er...scummy to you?

[d3sisted]

Now this replacement is scummy…

First we have…

In fact, it is advantageous for the mafia if the town continues to send in night choices, as the quacks will ceaselessly tear the town apart. Might I then suggest that we play this game as though the setup were 9 Townies 3 Mafia by having all the doctors abstain from protecting?

Then we have..

Playing this way gives us less chance of losing real doctors. With the quacks voting we stand to lose a maximum of 4 docs, while without, we stand to lose ONE.

CKD was quick to target claim ‘nobody’, something I view as highly suspicious. For someone who habitually throws votes around on a whim, I doubt you would have been so cautious on N0.

which is followed by a vote on me. I already explained why I didn’t night choose, for much the same reason your previous post stated we should not night choose. Does it surprise me that you have voted for me, while my vote is on your scum buddy? No.

My, you're quick to assumptions. The case I am presenting is that you send in no-kill because you were afraid to kill a real doc (understandable) but now that you understand the risks of actually killing a doc, you've decided to start NKing. If you were afraid to kill the real docs on the first night, you would continue to send no-kills.

Looking at the most recent votecount, I see 3 votes on Mert by Indy, Hjallti, and Curiouskarmadog, one of whom I suspect to be scum. Had they all been doctors, mafia already would’ve piled on for the hammer. Of the three, I suspected curious the most.

Again, if you have read the thread, you will see that WE HAVE ONLY HAD 3 ACTIVE POSTERS!!! The Mod just started seeking 2-4 replacements…that is mostly likely the reason there has been no hammer. Another reason might be the town can not choose who is scummier you are Mert.

Fine, I'll give you this one. I just like to post with the expectation that everyone in the thread is active, as they made that committment when signing up for a game. Then again, you're quick to call Protown on Mert, Indy, and Hjallti. How are you so sure?

what happens if a quack "protects" mafia..does that mafia die? Still trying to figure this game out.

so if you "protected" someone that is mafia, they would not die, right? So how do you know you protected someone successfully? Maybe you just targeted mafia.

It seems as though at N0, you assumed quacks could NK mafia, in which case you had no reason to give a no-vote.

you are in insane..I was asking the question because I wasn’t she how the game was played..JUST LIKE you asked questions when you first got here.

Yes, I understand you asked questions, that's obvious. However, my case still remains. You assumed quacks could kill mafia, thus had no reason to send a no-kill.

I would like to hear form Mert. I posted my thoughts on him 7 days ago, and no response...maybe he decided to lurk unti the heat goes away, what do you think town?

Accuses Mert of lurking without considering inactivity, trying to use that as an excuse for others to join the BW. Asks for the town’s stance, most likely trying to gauge the likelihood of a Mert BW or rally more votes.

I did consider “inactivity”..he was posting in all of his other games except this one…if you metagamed (or even read this thread) you would know this.…that why I asked the mod to prod.

Well if you're so sure about your metagaming, why didn't you mention that fact in your post? And what does it matter to you what the town thinks, lurking is lurking.

Well, for one, I didnt protect anyone last night as you well know (think that is your whole arguement as to why the town should lynch me). As I have said, I will not make that mistake twice.

So now that you KNOW your quack vote can only kill doctors but not mafia, you’re going to start using your night choices? Huh?

my god you

are

insane. I am scummy because I didnt night protect...now I am scummy because I will night protect...

Excuse me. You are scummy because you role-claimed a no-kill, easy out for mafia. Why will you night protect knowing that we have 5 possible real doctors you can kill?

if you read that whole post you would know why I am night protecting...because it helps the town decide who is scum...

No, it doesn't. 5 doctors, 3 quacks. If all 3 night protect, we lose a possible 4 doctors instead of 1. I'm surprised you'd shoot down the idea of playing 9 Town 3 Mafia so quickly. It's a viable solution, we suffer the least losses, plus it's not unfamiliar. As I said before, the only reason you want be against it is if you were scum, hoping the quack docs will kill off each other during the night.

I didn’t like Dral (played every scummy), I didn’t like Piggy, now this guy is here throwing around very CRAP LOGIC! He is stretching (I do not think it could be called stretching)...he is this crap case that doesnt make any since and is full of lies and leaps

That is three scummy people in a role…I didn’t think anyone could play scummier than Mert…but you took the cake.

Unvote
Vote d3sisted

Wow, what a response. I'd to call it desperation or even panic, so I'll just call it "playing-style". Last time I checked, these are the mechanics mafiascum operates upon, brother; I suspect a player, I present my case, I vote him lynched. No need to get all worked up about ONE vote. Talk about pressure voting.

Judging from this reaction, I'd say my vote on him was well placed. Talk more please, I like reading scum tells.

For future reference, there's no need for the insults in here. Why don't you present a concrete case instead, or at least

provide a decent defense that doesn't revolve around my being insane?

Oh, and don't put words into my mouth (keyboard) please.

[d3sisted]

Looking at the most recent votecount, I see 3 votes on Mert by Indy, Hjallti, and Curiouskarmadog, one of whom I suspect to be scum. Had they all been doctors, mafia already would’ve piled on for the hammer. Of the three, I suspected curious the most.

Huh, so Mert is not scum for a fact. Nice logical flaw. Congrats. The only way your statement is true if Mert is no scum. IF you know that you must be scum yourself.

unvote

since the game might get speed while I am at limited access

FoS:mert&d3sisted

Unless mafia wants to go for some hardcore extreme bussing or whatever, there's no reason for them to carry on such a long wagon on a scumbuddy. But if you notice, Mert's being scum doesn't play into my case on curiouskarmadog very well, and in the sole interest of discussion, I needed to make some assumptions.

However, reading the previous cases everyone presented on Mert, I'm starting to lean a bit too.

[d3sisted]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

what? did you just read the crap d3sisted wrote?

Clearly you are not paying attention to think that my suspicion is based on that.

you are missing my point...

d3sisted didnt say anything about Indy..my point was: I can not see any town member reading the crap d3sisted posted and not finding it scummy to the nth degree. After he posted it, the only comment you made was, I still see a case for Indy..

I was asking you what about what d3sisted just posted...didnt that seem a little..er...scummy to you?

Hah. I bring up an actual case on the guy, and he goes ballistic. There shouldn't be anything to be afraid of, bro, it's ONE VOTE. Indy's (and everyone else's, for that matter) LOS differs from yours, so stop trying to hijack everyone's votes.

[Stewie]

@Stewie: Having been very cynical since the beginning, I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game. At any rate, doesn't hurt to be sure.

Why would he want to lie?

[d3sisted]

@Stewie: I told you why.

I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game.

In more basic words, he was fucking around with town.

I know your hate for me stems from my predecessors, but you didn't give much reason for voting Piggy. All you said was:

Unvote Vote: Ms Piggy, looking for a quick end to the day are we? That's an awful excuse.

Which I don't believe warrants a vote on his successor. I've presented evidence to go with all my accusations, so I'd appreciate it if you can come up with your own legitimate case for why you voted me. Or, at least provide a stronger case on Piggy.

BTW, if you do some metagaming, he does that very often.

[JDodge]

Pfeh, I still think there's quite a case on Indy.

what? did you just read the crap d3sisted wrote?

Clearly you are not paying attention to think that my suspicion is based on that.

you are missing my point...

d3sisted didnt say anything about Indy..my point was: I can not see any town member reading the crap d3sisted posted and not finding it scummy to the nth degree. After he posted it, the only comment you made was, I still see a case for Indy..

I was asking you what about what d3sisted just posted...didnt that seem a little..er...scummy to you?

Not really...

Your reaction seems vaguely OMGUS, though.

[curiouskarmadog]

My, you're quick to assumptions. The case I am presenting is that you send in no-kill because you were afraid to kill a real doc (understandable) but now that you understand the risks of actually killing a doc, you've decided to start NKing. If you were afraid to kill the real docs on the first night, you would continue to send no-kills.
.

OK scum, go back and read the thread again before you post anymore. I stated I thought there was 6 quacks and 3 docs..now I understand it was the other way around. Also if you read the thread, you would see that the majority of the town supports night protections for the Docs/Quacks. That is how you tell who is mafia or not..again, read the thread.

Again, if you have read the thread, you will see that WE HAVE ONLY HAD 3 ACTIVE POSTERS!!! The Mod just started seeking 2-4 replacements…that is mostly likely the reason there has been no hammer. Another reason might be the town can not choose who is scummier you are Mert.

Fine, I'll give you this one. I just like to post with the expectation that everyone in the thread is active, as they made that committment when signing up for a game. Then again, you're quick to call Protown on Mert, Indy, and Hjallti. How are you so sure?

read the damn thread

I have never called Indy or Hjallti protown..I have actually spent 4 pages calling Mert scum..which if you actually read the thread you would not only see that, but see that my vote was on him before I unvote and voted for you.

Yes, I understand you asked questions, that's obvious. However, my case still remains. You assumed quacks could kill mafia, thus had no reason to send a no-kill.

I didnt assume anything, that is why I asked the question. I have stated (3 times now) why I didnt night choose.

Well if you're so sure about your metagaming, why didn't you mention that fact in your post? And what does it matter to you what the town thinks, lurking is lurking.

READ THE THREAD...god I sound like a broken record...I will even help you. Post 354

Aimee can you please

prod Mert

as it has been over 7 days since he has post...

doing a little metagaming, he is active in many other games, but I start putting on the pressure here and he stops posting...

anyone else find that interesting?

Town, this guy is pushing a case against me and he is not reading the thread or simply making up facts. I am actually in shock, since I have been playing this game, I have never seen such a blatantly bad case fill with bad logic and out and out lies.

Really I think I am in shock, here.

[Stewie]

@Stewie: I told you why.

I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game.

In more basic words, he was fucking around with town.

I know your hate for me stems from my predecessors, but you didn't give much reason for voting Piggy. All you said was:

Unvote Vote: Ms Piggy, looking for a quick end to the day are we? That's an awful excuse.

Which I don't believe warrants a vote on his successor. I've presented evidence to go with all my accusations, so I'd appreciate it if you can come up with your own legitimate case for why you voted me. Or, at least provide a stronger case on Piggy.

BTW, if you do some metagaming, he does that very often.

Piggy quickly voted for BM, trying to end the day. She gave no specific reason for her vote, and when asked she said that others had already said their reasons, and those were her reasons too. When asked to repeat these reasons, she did not.

[d3sisted]

@Stewie: I told you why.

I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game.

In more basic words, he was fucking around with town.

I know your hate for me stems from my predecessors, but you didn't give much reason for voting Piggy. All you said was:

Unvote Vote: Ms Piggy, looking for a quick end to the day are we? That's an awful excuse.

Which I don't believe warrants a vote on his successor. I've presented evidence to go with all my accusations, so I'd appreciate it if you can come up with your own legitimate case for why you voted me. Or, at least provide a stronger case on Piggy.

BTW, if you do some metagaming, he does that very often.

Piggy quickly voted for BM, trying to end the day. She gave no specific reason for her vote, and when asked she said that others had already said their reasons, and those were her reasons too. When asked to repeat these reasons, she did not.

Fair enough.

CKD is either acting really scum or really close-minded right now. Either way, I'm going to give him some time to cool off and reread my post before I respond.

[curiouskarmadog]

@Stewie: I told you why.

I suspect Dral may have given a false target-claim to ruin the game.

In more basic words, he was fucking around with town.

I know your hate for me stems from my predecessors, but you didn't give much reason for voting Piggy. All you said was:

Unvote Vote: Ms Piggy, looking for a quick end to the day are we? That's an awful excuse.

Which I don't believe warrants a vote on his successor. I've presented evidence to go with all my accusations, so I'd appreciate it if you can come up with your own legitimate case for why you voted me. Or, at least provide a stronger case on Piggy.

BTW, if you do some metagaming, he does that very often.

Piggy quickly voted for BM, trying to end the day. She gave no specific reason for her vote, and when asked she said that others had already said their reasons, and those were her reasons too. When asked to repeat these reasons, she did not.

Fair enough.

CKD is either acting really scum or really close-minded right now. Either way, I'm going to give him some time to cool off and reread my post before I respond.

you have got to be kidding..you are the one who needs to read the thread

[Thesp]

scmp replaces controlledburn, effective immediately.

[d3sisted]

My, you're quick to assumptions. The case I am presenting is that you send in no-kill because you were afraid to kill a real doc (understandable) but now that you understand the risks of actually killing a doc, you've decided to start NKing. If you were afraid to kill the real docs on the first night, you would continue to send no-kills.
.

OK scum, go back and read the thread again before you post anymore. I stated I thought there was 6 quacks and 3 docs..now I understand it was the other way around. Also if you read the thread, you would see that the majority of the town supports night protections for the Docs/Quacks. That is how you tell who is mafia or not..again, read the thread.

I’m just going to say this one last time: In my opinion, we’re better off playing this game as 9 Townie 3 Mafia because that way, we have no risk of a quack accidentally killing a doc. I don’t give a shit what the majority of the town thinks, I have my own brain, I do my own thinking, I make my own decisions. The scummiest thing you can do is play as though you’re just another sheep in the herd. Not only does it allow for mafia to direct us into a mis-lynch, we get no discussion and the game goes nowhere if all we’re doing is agreeing with whatever everyone else says. And no, with a possible 3 quacks in play, night protecting does NOT show you who is mafia, it only shows you who is dead. The only way we’re going to get information is if we can tell which kills are done by mafia; we can’t do that with 3 quacks contaminating the hitlist.

Again, if you have read the thread, you will see that WE HAVE ONLY HAD 3 ACTIVE POSTERS!!! The Mod just started seeking 2-4 replacements…that is mostly likely the reason there has been no hammer. Another reason might be the town can not choose who is scummier you are Mert.

Fine, I'll give you this one. I just like to post with the expectation that everyone in the thread is active, as they made that committment when signing up for a game. Then again, you're quick to call Protown on Mert, Indy, and Hjallti. How are you so sure?

read the damn thread

I have never called Indy or Hjallti protown..I have actually spent 4 pages calling Mert scum..which if you actually read the thread you would not only see that, but see that my vote was on him before I unvote and voted for you.

Take a moment to calm down for a second, then you’ll stop misconstruing my posts. I wasn’t referring to anything said in the thread, I was referring to what you directly responded to me with. You say there was no hammer because players (including a few of the mafia) have been inactive, hence my question: how can you be sure there aren’t already 1, 2, or 3 scums on Mert’s wagon? How can you be sure Mert himself isn’t mafia, which would attribute to the delayed hammering?

Yes, I understand you asked questions, that's obvious. However, my case still remains. You assumed quacks could kill mafia, thus had no reason to send a no-kill.

I didnt assume anything, that is why I asked the question. I have stated (3 times now) why I didnt night choose.

You asked the question after the game started, long after your night protect was sent in. I acknowledged your explanation for why you didn’t NK, and I decided to call it bullshit, is that too hard for you to understand? The case I’m bringing up is that you misunderstood the quack role, and thought quacks could kill mafia. It would therefore be illogical that you sent a no-kill on N0. If it bothers you so much, you’re welcome to just ignore this statement and let it slide.

Well if you're so sure about your metagaming, why didn't you mention that fact in your post? And what does it matter to you what the town thinks, lurking is lurking.

READ THE THREAD...god I sound like a broken record...I will even help you. Post 354

Ok, you’ve sufficiently addressed that aspect, congratulations. Now, I’ll ask you again: You asked the question, “what do you think [of Mert’s lurking], town? I interpreted that segment as an excuse to start a BW (i.e. gauging the viability of a Mert wagon, as I originally stated). Do you or do you not deny this? Were you or were you not rallying support for Mert’s quicklynch on the grounds of lurking/inactivity?

Town, this guy is pushing a case against me and he is not reading the thread or simply making up facts. I am actually in shock, since I have been playing this game, I have never seen such a blatantly bad case fill with bad logic and out and out lies.

Really I think I am in shock, here.

(Like I said, please keep talking; I love reading these scum-tells you emit.) Again, you try to rally the town’s votes towards me. The facts have been stated in plain black and white; it is up to the town to determine the veracity of my claims. It is NOT up to you to hijack their votes, regardless of how strongly you suspect me. You say I am making up facts? I have clarified my evidence for you twice, and it is the last time I am willing to do so. You can either defend yourself against my claims, or completely ignore them, at which point I will be forced to affirm your mafia status.

Calling me insane, telling me to read the thread, and going into shock does not constitute a proper defense. We can either discuss this like sensible mafiascum players, or you can flip out again. I have merely presented my thinking, and if you doubt my logic, explain yourself with supporting facts. Saying so doesn't make it so.

I've got evidence to support all my claims; all you've done is deny my assertions and blaspheme to intollerable lengths. I'm giving you one last chance; if, and only if you can adequately defend yourself and address the points I have brought up, I will consider unvoting. Your move.