Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Glork]

EBWOP: "in the past"... Phone posting fail.

[Glork]

Also, rampant OMGUS is not very becoming of you.

[Duplicity]

Ok, back from vacation and taking over the reigns again because Shift is all kinds of bad. Apologies for the fact that this is a wall, I can't help myself.

Strong town reads:

- I think both Tierce and Glork are town, their soft-claims come across as fairly genuine and Tierces entire 'I'm not defending shit-town anymore' makes a lot of sense given other things and is a stance I can very much see her taking as town. Plus the fact that her frustration, anger and reaction towards the wagon on her comes across as very town. I also like Glorks push and turn-a-round on Tierce, it ressembles what I know of his town-play almost to the tee and his explanation of why soft-claiming is benefitical seems very much thought through ie. "Scum aren't going to be able to narrow down it to X" making it optimal to softclaim.

- The Tammy wagon is wrong, I know where it's coming from but it's just wrong. I've played with her quite a bit off-site and while Tammy is a very analytical player she reacts poorly towards being voted or suspected as town, it's just her M-O she tends to consider each vote on her as an insult in some form and her emotional outburst is extremely town. Also the "You're so awesome at reading me" to SpyreX is explained enough by her mention of SpyreX misreading her previously in #82 and actually makes quite a bit of sense.

- Also Alchemists is town, his meta shift and statement of it is a massive town-tell given that him recognizing that he's read as town easily as either faction in the past and changing from that means that he's less concerned with peoples read and opinion on him and more concerned with how much he's actually helping re; scumhunting. Plus his research into the validity of Quilfords statement in #41 is a strong town tell. On top of that I like his push on Ludi even though I think the way he's going about doing it is bad.

- I think Quilford is town and think a lot of the heat he got initially was completely undeserved, while his RVS-style reads list was bad his explanation of 'He did it very succesfully in Animal Rescue' and that he was attempting to get reactions from it is incredibly genuine and town as is his comment of "Arg didn't want to get this aggressive this early".

- Also Dramonics reaction towards Glork/Tierces soft-claim of "stop fucking claim ect. ect." comes across as genuine and town and Gammas instant mentioning of the win conditions and how mass-claim fits into it alongside with his reads are town. I've found myself agreeing with a lot of Zdeneks posts and able to follow his logic and though process very easily. I find that one of the strongest town-tells there is because although scum can fake a lot of things putting themselves exactly in a town mindset is the hardest.

Weak Town Reads

- I think SpyreX is town but it's a weaker read then the rest of mine and mostly revolves around his push on Tammy seems to be something that he genuinely believes in and his comments about scum-team size/roles that scum need to eliminate are somewhat town. I'm honestly not sure on Haze, his posts read as fairly hollow to me but Shift mentioned he had a town-read on him to me earlier when I was just about to start reading through the thread so he can explain it later.

- I'm in two minds about UN. I can understand the wagon on him for his 'Tammy is town' while voting Tammy and his shitty votes at game-start but at the same time I don't really attribute either of those to him as massive scum-tells and I find his explanation of it alongside with him going the whole "I derped, are you after scum or a derp" as town on a gut level and although I hate hate hate using gut reads I don't think the wagon on him is the best thing right now.

Scum Reads

- Toastys entrance post is terrible, it's just an attack on the three players who had the most heat so far in the game (Tierce/Tammy/UN) with him stating suspicion on all three of them and not commenting on anyone else whatsoever. His follow up post didn't do anything to sway me otherwise, his comments read as very forced and contrived.

- Singers "Tammy is obviously town" while voting Tammy and not unvoting after it was mentioned with the "I want them dead anyway" defence is infinitly worse than UN's, not defending a strong-town read because you think they're bad is one thing and somewhat understandable but voting and contributing towards their lynch rather than actually scumhunting is another thing all together and reads as an attempt to allow herself to be on nearly any weak players wagon while doing little else. Not experienced much with Singer to know if this is something she does often as scum/town though so if anyone wants to let me know it'd be nice.

- Nexus's introduction post is also bad, honestly reads as if he's only read the first 2-3 pages of the thread thrown in "Zdenek has made sense" because of it and jumps on a weaker player that has attained votes recently.

- While I like the fact that LLD jumps in and calls out the Tammy wagon for what it is; shit. I don't like the fact that her sole attempt to scumhunt is based of looking at the wagon votes rather than looking or commenting on anything else, it comes across as scum attempting to take the easy way out by saying 2 of this group of people are scum and I will focus on them only!

- I think Ludi is scum and from what I gathered Shift agrees, Ludis posts have been very fluff/fillerish with a lot of his questions and focus not really looking as if he's scumhunting but rather just attempting to appear as if he's contributing. His push on Timeater is also terrible and comes across as an OMGUS on a weaker player that's suspecting him. I want SpyreX's town-read on him explained.

- Oversoul is someone I have an interesting read on, his play has really been him saying 'do stuff later' which although is something I can understand is something that seems unneeded given the fact the game only started so recently. Also I found the phrasing of 'one MAYBE two people stood out as townies that need their hand held' as incredibly awkward. Also Shift thinks Hindurg/Nikandor have a decent shot of being scum and I'll look at them and talk with him a bout it later.

Unvote, Vote: Toasty

Ludi, Singer and Oversoul are all decent votes too though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nice Misrep, Duplicity. When did I ever say I was going to focus on ONLY people on that wagon?

I'm reading other people too, but I have scum reads on certain people.

[Duplicity]

You haven't even read my post at all, it's not humanly possible to read everything I wrote there in 2 minutes and then reply, you've just skimmed looked for your name and gone "omg i never said i'm only focusing on-wagon" when your ISO shows that's exactly what you've done thus far.

If you have reads elsewhere then talk about them, or discuss where you think I'm right/wrong on other players.

[Alchemist]

Glork, instead of evading my post and spinning the conversation back around towards me how about you answer all my points first.

Thanks

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You haven't even read my post at all, it's not humanly possible to read everything I wrote there in 2 minutes and then reply, you've just skimmed looked for your name and gone "omg i never said i'm only focusing on-wagon" when your ISO shows that's exactly what you've done thus far.

If you have reads elsewhere then talk about them, or discuss where you think I'm right/wrong on other players.

Why is it pro-town to post other reads at the moment when I'm focused on a pretty clear scum lynch in UberNinja?

I have reads on a lot more players than just the ones on that wagon, but I don't find it particularly pro-town to divulge them at the moment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(by the way, that's not to say I won't divulge them if you pressure me, but I'm saying that I find it particularly anti-town to divulge my reads when I'm so certain that UberNinja will flip scum).

[UberNinja]

Ok, spare us the bravado LLD.

Humor me and answer: Who do you think is scum if I'm town?

[Duplicity]

Alchemist, Glork is town, I'm very confident in that so your back-and-forth with him is just wasting time and creating clutter.

Glork, this is what Timeater is like as town. Read 1 or 2 of your games and you'll notice so.

Why is it pro-town to post other reads at the moment when I'm focused on a pretty clear scum lynch in UberNinja?

Eh, I've seen this stance before and I strongly disagree with it, that being I think the more information that players reveal about their reads the easier it is to understand what they're thinking and the easier it is to get a read on them. I also think by stating your reasoning and reads you allow players to have a chance to point out flaws in them or agree with them allowing you to either strengthen your reads or re-asses where you're likely wrong.

I also think you're wrong about UN but am having trouble explaining exactly why. I really would like it if you stated some other reads though.

[Alchemist]

Duplicity, I totally have a townboner for you but I respectfully disagree about Glork.

Also; I pretty much agree with all of your reads. Except maybe Singer/LLD/OS (check OS's site activity)

[UberNinja]

Actually, I just ISO'd LLD, and I really can't find any questions she's asked me that I haven't already given satisfactory answers to.

Unless she ignored my answers (which I'm assuming is the case, because she hasn't responded to any of them).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, I just ISO'd LLD, and I really can't find any questions she's asked me that

I haven't already given satisfactory answers to.

Unless she ignored my answers (which I'm assuming is the case, because she hasn't responded to any of them).

Our definitions of satisfactory differ.

Duplicity, I'll consider it as the day goes on. If I can't have my UberNinja lynch, I'll start giving more of my reads since it'll become necessary. Is this acceptable?

[UberNinja]

What was unsatisfactory about my answers?

[UberNinja]

I'm gonna require an explanation for this sequence of events.

I'm fine with accepting the Oversoul vote as a RVS vote, but the timing and manor of you explaining it in your third post is a little off. Why do you feel the need to defend your RVS vote?

Then, your Tammy vote. I'm pretty sure this is a blatant misrepresentation. Sure, maybe Tammy didn't word her post particularly well, but I was able to parse it into something that makes a hell of a lot more sense than what you described it as.

It seems a lot to me like you were reaching for the conclusion you drew in your second post. Would you mind outlining how exactly you came to this conclusion?

I'm fine with accepting the Oversoul vote as a RVS vote, but the timing and manor of you explaining it in your third post is a little off. Why do you feel the need to defend your RVS vote?

I didn't defend it. I only mentioned it because an outlandish number of people commented on it.

Then, your Tammy vote. I'm pretty sure this is a blatant misrepresentation. Sure, maybe Tammy didn't word her post particularly well, but I was able to parse it into something that makes a hell of a lot more sense than what you described it as.

But... but... I am

pretty clearly

trying to get in on an easy lynch early, and then ride it out for most of Day 1 while not scumhunting elsewhere. Free ride, baby. That's how I roll.

It seems a lot to me like you were reaching for the conclusion you drew in your second post. Would you mind outlining how exactly you came to this conclusion?

I read the post, and that was my thought process. Not sure how that's unclear.

Here's why I think Tammy's town.

I don't think scum would word things quite like she does: either she's pretty good at faking townspeak in her posts or she's actually town. Imo this far outweighs that scummy thing she did that made me vote her. So fuck anyone who's voting me because I said she was town when I was voting her, that was an honest mistake and I really wasn't paying too much attention at that point.

This looks like genuine righteous indignation to me, and the manner in which it's written doesn't make me feel scum, it makes me feel town.

You're the one in the last post said it was backhand smarm directed towards Tierce not white-knighting people anymore, so obviously to you it had something to do with Tierce. You don't get to now play dumb now and act like it didn't. Also, do I have any knowledge of Tierce's white-knighting meta? Oh, stupid me, no I fucking don't, so you're reading implications into her statement that you believe I perceived that I didn't.

All I know is that people came out and said, "I'm going to be different, but there are good reasons." Sounds to me like a pre-emptive defense. If you want to lynch me because I think that kind of crap is BS, then I don't know what to tell you...have at it.

Actually, @ Tammy, do you think SpyreX is scum?

I have no idea what to think of Spyrex right now. I think his weird over aggressive push on me is odd. However, I can't imagine scum pushing so hard so early for a mislynch...so probably not. He's probably just some really misguided townie with bad logic who doesn't realize he's wrong.

My vote on Zdenek was something that I thought was worse at the time. Overexplaining things is something that scum often do. I made a statement regarding the two people, at the time, who had pre-emptively defended their meta. So fucking what.

@Tierce - There was nothing pseudo about it, I made a mistake after getting frustrated because apparently nobody in the damn thread is interested in actually determining who the damn scum are. So, yeah, let's jump all over me because I dared to call out you guys who preemptively defended yourself against not following along with your meta and voting for someone who overexplained his entrance vote. Who cares after seeing him interact with people and got a town read on him that I sheeped him during RVS...apparently that's a fucking sin. Yeah, your explanation for your meta-defense sucked fucking ass so I sheeped Glork for that afterwards and let it ride. Since I got called out as slimy, that's how I referred to myself, because fuck it. If everyone wants to fall in line and think they actually caught me as scum in the first few posts of RVS, I'm laughing hysterically about that...because fucking damn seriously. And that is what everyone here thinks that because I called you out for pre-emptively defending yourself against your meta and that I used humor to do it so that I'm somehow scum...which I'm fucking not. So, yeah, I "pseudo" self voted because really who the fuck cares. When I realized the mistake I made after Spy's last genius post, I gave him the OMGUS he's been waiting for since page 2.

And then looking back, this looks like genuine scum hunting too.

What's up with going all overexplainy with your RVS vote?

vote: Zdenek

And what's up with the meta warnings? Just a heads up I won't be playing like I normally do, but it's definitely not because I'm evil, it's because... Seriously, not because I'm evil though, definitely not that!

Except for the middle answer in 256, I think I've given plenty satisfactory answers.

So I'll ask again...

What was unsatisfactory about my answers?

[SpyreX]

- I think Ludi is scum and from what I gathered Shift agrees, Ludis posts have been very fluff/fillerish with a lot of his questions and focus not really looking as if he's scumhunting but rather just attempting to appear as if he's contributing. His push on Timeater is also terrible and comes across as an OMGUS on a weaker player that's suspecting him. I want SpyreX's town-read on him explained.

I kinda went into it before but it just doesn't mesh right for scum to be that active at this point especially when they're putting fingers into all the pies and (duh) making enemies every which way. There's SOME of it I dont necessarily agree with but it still smells like trying to do stuff.

Its not a solid read by any means BUT there's a whole lot of avenues that are way more likely to net scum. Overall I agree with MOST of your post.

------

Singer's Magua + SpyreX scumteam combo is suspect because on top of the half wrong at best I cant even SEE the pretend connection in his one whopping post.

LLD's every post is just reaffirming that pit of stomach feeling.

I'm pretty much resigned to throwing my hands up in the air about Tammy and instead praying to dark deities to do it for me. If thats scum you bet your ass there's gonna be blood for it though.

[UberNinja]

LLD's every post is just reaffirming that pit of stomach feeling.

"That pit of stomach feeling" being what?

[SpyreX]

Scummm

I'd probably want your bullet to visit her instead

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm fine with accepting the Oversoul vote as a RVS vote, but the timing and manor of you explaining it in your third post is a little off. Why do you feel the need to defend your RVS vote?

I didn't defend it. I only mentioned it because an outlandish number of people commented on it.

Then, your Tammy vote. I'm pretty sure this is a blatant misrepresentation. Sure, maybe Tammy didn't word her post particularly well, but I was able to parse it into something that makes a hell of a lot more sense than what you described it as.

But... but... I am

pretty clearly

trying to get in on an easy lynch early, and then ride it out for most of Day 1 while not scumhunting elsewhere. Free ride, baby. That's how I roll.

It seems a lot to me like you were reaching for the conclusion you drew in your second post. Would you mind outlining how exactly you came to this conclusion?

I read the post, and that was my thought process. Not sure how that's unclear.

Nothing in this post sates my bloodlust. If anything, the Second point you raised makes me want you dead even more.

Also, nothing in your Tammy unvote and reasoning for your contradiction convinces me I should be moving my vote anywhere else.

P-Edit: Stop cutting me, dammit.

[UberNinja]

Scummm

I'd probably want your bullet to visit her instead

That's the nicest thing a boy's ever said to me SpyreX.

<3

[UberNinja]

If anything, the Second point you raised makes me want you dead even more.

...

Except for the middle [second] answer in 256, I think I've given plenty satisfactory answers.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SpyreX,

Do you have anything beyond your gut as to why I am scum?

Because I think your gut is not only off this game (Tammy is so so so obviously town, and your gut set you onto her) but I think you're getting sidetracked by someone who has the fucking backbone to say no to a terrible wagon.

Go get your head screwed on straight and come back.

[UberNinja]

You think you're cool because you have the backbone to say no to a terrible wagon...

...even though I had the backbone to say no to a terrible wagon WHILE I WAS STILL ON IT?

[SpyreX]

Dont even care about saying Tammy is town even if I disagree.

The fact you've latched onto this UN thing when AT BEST it was pretty clear it was a lynch of necessity that may hit scum versus SCUM FOUND says something.

The fact you think you're the "backbone" when it looks like Tammy has waaay more of a fanclub then that slot deserves also says something.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If anything, the Second point you raised makes me want you dead even more.

...

Except for the middle [second] answer in 256, I think I've given plenty satisfactory answers.

How shocking. The scum thinks that if he points out his own mistakes it makes them less valid.