Open 191 - Paris Mafia II (Game Over!)

[XScorpion]

I'm up for reckoner's plan, but it will suck if the Vig and watcher get sent after...the vig or watcher << Just pointing that out.
Unless there is someone who is REALLY obvscum I don't see why anyone other than Looker should be lynched today? Unless there's a really good reason, I doubt that myself or my wagon are gonna change any votes around, and I don't really see any other potential wagons at the moment so at this rate I'm still dead.

[hitogoroshi]

Scorpion, if we lynch and vig other people tonight, I assume you would stop this 'lynch me' stuff and actually get back into the game, yes?

Please answer.

Gerty has a couple of hours left.

[Gerty]

Here we go.

I guess the last game just made me feel that scumhunting with mimes around is a waste of time :/
Hence why I'd rather wait for the scum or vig to kill one first.

This is not an option (as has been stated several times ITT), so it's even worse than an excuse not to scumhunt. Who are your scum suspects right now?

Gerty, as you picked this up, why didn't you follow this up with a vote?

I was still happy with our Mylynes vote. His shifting attitude towards Kyle enforced the scumread at the time, but the question needed to be asked of Scorp.

So Reck is IMO clearly trying to get negative attention, but trying not to be obvious about it.

I also think xRx's play feels a little more mimey than I'd like (mimey is now my favourite adjective).

Second thought: I agree n1 the watcher should watch whoever we sic the vig on. I strongly disagree it should be kise - especially since it seems to mostly be for his jokey fakeclaim in an open. There is no incentive for mimes to post, because the usual tool of lynch all lurkers doesn't apply here.

Firstly, I'll respond to this plan with a concern. If the kill target is targetted by the Vig

and

the mafia, this is acceptable - one less NK is a good thing, even though it could mess up the Watcher's result. However, the mimes could also target the vig target with their roleblock, which would mess up the read - unless the mimes are pretty sure who has a killing role, I think optimum mime play under the current plan is to target the Watcher/Vig target.
I still think it's the best plan, but just wanted to make sure people are ready for claim shenanigans later. Letting the Vig decide for themselves after N1 should be considered tomorrow, but we should wait for the results of the NKs first.
Secondly, I think the case for Kise-mime is stronger than you represent here. His "too crazy to be mime" play is as much of a fallacy as "too scummy to be scum", and Kise is an excellent player. xRx and Looker are both using this rhetoric as well, and I'm not buying it. More on Kise in a bit.
Preview edit: Seems you've changed your mind about Kise, but I'd still like to know whether you stick by this initial read given Kise's content up until that point.
Finally, you said that lynching lurkers does not apply, and yet you're voting us for not posting (sorry about that everybody, for real). Seems to be a double standard?

I could blindly assume that everyone is town, but I'm really not trying to go down that road, so, until I figure out who is, I'd like to keep my options open and my vision non-tunneled.

Hrmf, false dichotomy ftl.

1. I've asked you at least 3 times know why you unvoted Kise and you still haven't told me. This is dodging.
2. So you are basically saying that everyone who is voting based on evidence right now is stupid and should re-evaluate their accusations?
3. And flinter calls ME scum for not scumhunting and desiring a no-lynch...sigh.
4. I'm actually asking you to tell me what you've done so far that has helped town.

I actually liked this post, and the questions that proceeded it. I think XScorpion comes off much better in his exchange with Looker. The speed of his wagon was also unsettling.

He would/should try to look either pro-town or obvmime, since only goony behavior is lynchworthy. The fact that Looker doesn't really care to cover himself up indicates to me that he doesn't mind having a little scummyscumjuice drip on him. He's not being irrational, admittedly, so this does not suggest he is pretending to be mime.

Looking at this post (as well as Kise's subsequent unvote), I think Kise is top candidate for mime, or at least scum of some sort.
The first sentence applies to Kise as much as it applies to Looker, as does the second. However, it's quite obvious that Kise

is

being irrational, which suggests that he's either pretending to be or actually is a mime by his own logic.
My vote is very much for a Kise vig.
For those who don't think Kise is a mime, do you all agree with this read of xRx's:

I mean, Kise's joking nature and the fact that mimes wouldn't be so obvious make me think it's just Kise joking around.

...because I don't buy it.

Bottom of page 12 and top of page 13 further solidify the town read I've developed of XScorpion. At the very least, he's not a mime.

Dryfit is doing the "yeah he is scummy, buuuuut that guy is scummy too" way to avoid Scorpion. If I am right and scorpion is indeed scum, I would say not Kyle, not Rhinox, but Dry-fit is his buddy.

:goodposting:

Now in this exchange:

I think you should vote Dry-Fit now, Scorp

I don't follow scum's advice.

Lol, that's funny, cuz if

I

followed scum's advice, I'd be voting you by now.

Really? Which scum was that? Flinter? Cuz I don't think flinter is scum.

She's not the only one that's suggested I vote you.

Alright looker, then who are you referring to?

Okay, XScorpion has been my second suspect after Looker for a while. I'm not at all opposed to his lynch. He isn't making any attempts to scumhunt despite countless calls to. In fact, he keeps coming up with excuses to be useless.

Where did dry-fit come from, and why is he scum?

I don't know. I just don't want XScorpion dying when Dry-Fit's just now come in

...I think Looker comes off the worse for wear, especially the last post.
Looker's discussion of Dry-fit up to this point was minimal - voted him in 253 to "hear his take on things", and waited most of the game to hear it, then concluded he was scum for what reason? I'm not sure. He totally dodged xRx's question there.

My read on Looker is "some sort of scum/mime probably".

To be honest, though, scorpions flailing seems to be equally explainable as frustrated townie or scum mimicking the same. (I'll feel terrible if I'm wrong about this, but I don't think he's a mime.)

I agree with this read.

My death will almost certainly give good information about scum to town. I'm trying to get lynched as VT in a game with mimes so that if we fail to find scum today (at this rate, we will), at least we don't lynch a mime or PR.

Whilst I don't think VTs should actually *try* to get lynched in any setup, a VT lynch is better than mime or PR. This post is WIFOM, but I don't think I'm interested in lynching Scorpion today. I'd much rather see what else he has to contribute to the game.

Seriously, Looker, when people say 'oh man, I can't believe there are X pages to catch up to' the reason it's such a big imposing number is because you keep spamming the thread. Please, try to keep it under control.

This.

You are trying way too hard to get yourself lynched.

The feeling I get is actually much more in line with the quote of hito's I quoted above. I don't get the impression that XScorpion is *trying* to get lynched. XScorpion was actually quite clear as to why he wanted to get lynched - he felt helpless, and wanted to make sure it was VT rather than PR or mime. AtE and so forth, but this attack feels like it could be a misrepresentation on Mylynes' part.

This also means both kise and xscorpion can't be mimes, for those that are working that angle still. mimescorpion wouldn't want mimekise to be vigged.

There's an important clarification - they can't be mimes

together

- but I agree.

We have a little time to decide on things but I'm pretty sure kyle and myl are town.

I don't know how you can be "pretty sure" about the alignment of either of these players.

I haven't had a chance to discuss the game with my other head, but for the moment I'm still supporting the Kise vig and the plan for the watcher to watch Kise. If the scum or the mimes waste their action attempting to muddle the Watcher's result, then it's still a good result for the town.

flinter's analysis has been strong and consistent so far, and I have a fairly strong townread of her. Same goes for hito.

In agreement that both kyle

and

xRx need to do more. xRx seems to have spent the majority of the game gunning for kyle, beyond a "sure I'll hammer Scorp" comment, and this is weird.

I haven't gotten a good read on Rhinox, not sure why.

Looker is another "person of interest", but I haven't been able to pin down whether I think he's more mime or more scum, so he's a possible alt for the vig target I'd be happy with.

As for my vote, I'm going to keep it on Mylynes. The vote-then-townread of Kyle still bugs me, and his attack on Scorpion feels off. Seems like scum play.

[XScorpion]

Scorpion, if we lynch and vig other people tonight, I assume you would stop this 'lynch me' stuff and actually get back into the game, yes?

If I magically survive to the next day then sure, I'll play harder. But from the perspective of the rest of town I really am the logical choice for lynch.

[Percy]

Play harder now.

[Gerty]

Ahem, apologies for that.

[XScorpion]

Please stop alt posting or I will lynch you out of spite

[hitogoroshi]

Alright, I was right to like Gerty's posting style. That last post was certainly worth the wait and my vote has served it's purpose.

Gerty, could we get you on board for a kyle wagon to save scorpion? I think we're both on the same wavelength when it comes to him and I'm good with seeing kyle go. (as I said before, a dry-fit lynch is also fine by me.)

As for the vig target, I like kise's plan that we vig/watch him if we hit a scum or mime and let him pick if we mislynch. seeing as people are generally risk-adverse, I'd be willing to bet scum-kise or mime-kise would have rather defined it the other way.

I hate to vote-hop (it's my meta to leave my vote in one place, and while I'm starting to outgrow that bad habit it still makes me feel icky because rapid-votes lose their pressuring power) but there's no sense waiting around.

unvote, vote:kyle99

I'll be up for a dry-fit switch, and maybe mylnynes, though I'm not as certain as Gerty on that one. Still, any of those three would be better than the current scorpion and looker wagons.

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 1-15

:

XScorpion ~ L-4 (flinter, Rhinox, kyle99)

Looker ~ L-5 (XScorpion, Dry-fit)
kyle99 ~ L-5 (xRECKONERx, hitogoroshi)
Mylynes ~ L-6 (Gerty)
flinter ~ L-6 (xofelf)
Dry-fit ~ L-6 (Looker)


Not Voting: Mylynes, Kise

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is January 18 at roughly 8 a.m. (GMT-5).

Mimey is the new official buzzword of this game. *cue Pee Wee Herman spaz out*

[Looker]

unvote
vote mylynes

[Rhinox]

unvote

scorpion is town. Looker is town. Kise is still probably town.

vote: kyle99

vig: reck (gut feeling)

[flinter]

looker, your vote makes no sense, only if Scorpion is scum too. Mylynes didn't need to kill the wagon as scum. Mylynes, of all the people, is not that scummy, earlier mime-like.

Seriously, who lets go of someone at "L-1", claiming that after that, they wanted to get lynched (seen the posts, and his defeatism, he probably believed he was at L-1). Only someone who thinks that the current lynch is not on a mime, and going for a second chance that way. Maybe the second mime was another big wagon, if Mylynes is one.

[xRECKONERx]

Uhh... how do we "let him pick" if the flip doesn't happen until AFTER the lynch and the topic is LOCKED?

[hitogoroshi]

He picks before the lynch happens.

[xRECKONERx]

Wait, nvm, now I feel retarded.

Also,

ATTENTION KYLE. I DO NOT HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST YOU. I CALLED YOU OUT FOR BEING SCUMMY IN MAYOR MAFIA AND YOU WERE SCUM. I'M CALLING YOU OUT HERE AS WELL BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTING SCUMMY. PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS.

[kyle99]

Wait, nvm, now I feel retarded.

Also,

ATTENTION KYLE. I DO NOT HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST YOU. I CALLED YOU OUT FOR BEING SCUMMY IN MAYOR MAFIA AND YOU WERE SCUM. I'M CALLING YOU OUT HERE AS WELL BECAUSE YOU'RE ACTING SCUMMY. PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS.

Is that why I was the person who you voted in the RVS?

[Looker]

looker, your vote makes no sense, only if Scorpion is scum too.

I don't see evidence to support this.

[xRECKONERx]

Yes, I

jokingly

voted you in the

random voting stage

to say hello. SOME PEOPLE DO THAT FROM TIME TO TIME. CRAZY AIN'T IT?

[XScorpion]

unvote

scorpion is town. Looker is town. Kise is still probably town.

vote: kyle99

vig: reck (gut feeling)

Care to explain your thoughts? Or is all of this just "gut feeling"?
I'm still not seeing why Looker is town and Kyle isn't.

[Mylynes]

The feeling I get is actually much more in line with the quote of hito's I quoted above. I don't get the impression that XScorpion is *trying* to get lynched. XScorpion was actually quite clear as to why he wanted to get lynched - he felt helpless, and wanted to make sure it was VT rather than PR or mime. AtE and so forth, but this attack feels like it could be a misrepresentation on Mylynes' part.

I can see Xscorpion as being town especially if he gets rid of his defeatism. While his explanation does fit defeated townie I think it could have also been good mime play.

I don't think planning a vig on me is a good idea...

Why not?

I have to go for now but I'll finish posting as soon as I get back.

[Kise]

@Reck - How come my comment isn't considered to be part of the RVS? ~_~

[xofelf]

i don't know what the hell happened, but for the past few days either MS or my computer hasn't been letting me post.. so i apologize for that.
provided i find a keyboard soon, that shouldn't be a problem when i get my new computer up and running.

[hitogoroshi]

It's the site, xofelf. I think most games are taking an activity hit with these white-screen shenanigans.

[Looker]

Mimey

[Mylynes]

I want to get an unofficial "vote count" on if people support this plan or not:

The Plan:
Town collectively decides who should be vigged, watcher watches that person and then knows who vig is.

You guys do realize this was my plan, right? Swagger jackers...

I think Rhinox is a mime and I forget who else, but I probably thought they were goon. We have a little time to decide on things but I'm pretty sure kyle and myl are town.

Why do you think Rhinox is a mime and why are you pretty sure me and kyle are town?

@Looker - Any reason in particular you want me lynched vigged?