Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[Not_Mafia]

If you want to vote I won't hammer, I'll let the day play out and give peta the hammer

[Datisi]

I feel like I have not voted scum all game and am trigger shy

you voted implo

(also going through your iso, you have voted both me and n_m, are you forgetting some of those votes or is schia/peta the Hot New Scumteam)

pedit: lol

[Isis]

implo was SK and I think voting an SK means like an eight as much as what people think it means compared to group scum.
NM hasn't participated much/been readable this game so it was a default vote.
Voting you, if you're scum, is the one case where I have been perceptive in the context of this game.

[petapan]

ive been dreading actually reading and replying but i guess i have to do it sometime

[petapan]

Maybe show me people to deadsheep about it. You feel off to me also.

come on, you know i can't show you that.

on instinct i think datisi's tone entering today was off but i don't trust my instincts anymore

peta, you said you wanna talk to me, talk to me. what about it was off?

i dont know lol

i need ~something~, i didn't have anything in mind to talk about but if you're town you need to convince me

s i g h
peta i don't know how to convince you. i don't know what makes people read me the way it does.

also i am so tired from mafia because literal two days ago i took a town that was on route to victory and single-handedly torpedoed it into the grand canyon. but i really really don't want it to happen again.

like you were reading me correctly on day one.

later on you accused me of not solving but that's both false and kinda a flawed argument. i was solving where i was able to - the issue was that i'd missed a good chuck of late day 1 which didn't help. but it's also a flawed argument because i know how to fake reads as scum, and bullshitting scumreads isn't difficult. like on day two, iirc there were shitfights around isis, there were shitfights with you and bb. (i'm assuming you're town here bc if you aren't then lol) like i could've taken advantage of those t/t things. instead i'd sat aside, weakly called y'all town, pushed infinity???

day three i actually thought mena was being scummy. me/him/ico have a long history of playing together, and mena prides himself in being able to read ico correctly (i think like every game except their first game together?). the fact that (1) he kept insisting that ico was scummy (2) genuinely wasn't trying to read the parts of the game that i felt were very town!indicative for ico made me think he's scum. it was kinda a dual bop on both me and him wrt reading ico. which was obviously half wrong but it made me think the slot is scum.

like it's hard for me to interact w "idk convince me" bc in vast majority of cases i never actually have to do that - people are convinced themselves. that's why i'm asking you, what is it that you're finding scummy. bc i don't know what else to do and i really REALLY don't wanna be the sole reason why a town has lost a game twice in the same week

yeah i did see that game. condolences. mishammering sucks

i mean i guess i had just found your dropoff scummy, like the energy that was there day 1 just kind of went away and there are incidental interaction things with notscience. but. "not townie enuf", to quote skitter, has been a pretty poor metric for finding scum this game. and it would be the biggest absolute dickshot for me to second-guess my initial read on you and lose off it because even if your reads were

wrong

i felt a lot of that stuff reading along

[petapan]

I guess I would want to watch you sort but the game's kind of sorted from your PoV I guess if you buy into peta!town
Tell me how you would analyze NM's hammers/nothammers

i can tell you about my theory that you were scum preparing for my yeet in final 5 because on d3 you made a post like "i wanna think about either bb worlds or datisi worlds" but when d4 came by, you no-comment voted secret hydra while knowing that there'd be appetites for that yeet, and bc i'd be an ~easy~ push in final 5 bc you could call back to your suspicion on me from d3, and also you were kinda more widely townread than me and most likely win that 1v1 so.

obviously this all fell apart bc you're the jk but maybe it helps showing where my head was at, idk

i mean i've been town on him but i don't actually *know* how to read peta. but i don't think i could ever convince you to vote him anyway so it's like. i'm taking my previous ~townread on him and running with it because the game's not winnable if it's wrong anyway.

this is also a difficult question bc while i vaguely know n_m's rep, i don't actually know if his behaviour is ever ai one way or another.

ok, i reskimmed his iso again and the genuine answer would be that i do not know. like, if i wanted to, i could argue that his pattern of not hammering pooky (town), but then hammering implo, bb, sechyd (3 non-groupscum) is scum!indicative because the only time he didn't hammer someone / expressed a townread on them was when it was practically a done-deal that they're flipping, and there were enough people that wanted pooky dead... actually, wait, pp was voting sechyd the whole of d3, no? and he wasn't on the final wagon.

aaaagh. n_m didn't have to hammer sechyd there, likely pp does the job for him. *but* he also never expressed any sorta read on sechyd, so not hammering wouldn't really be town!indicative while there was another person ready to do it, bc he never genuinely tried to divert from sechyd and "not hammer" would obviously be just for show. so he wasn't really giving up any towncred by hammering there.

analyzing the patterns in a vacuum, the answer is "lol idk". if there really is precedent to n_m being more likely to actually play the game / express reads as town, then it's +scum, but that's meta i don't have.

i am a sucker for the talking about the paranoid theorizing about isis stuff. (though the comment about thinking i was jk fell in that category but looking back it only came after the flip so not as strong. i was kind of trying to project the possibility of being pr earlier, when bridgeburners was musing about the possibility of there being only 2 groupscum i shut that down, because speculating on that is a low-key VT claim or subtle rolefishing)

also lmao at "i don't know how to read peta, so i'll try to read not_mafia", because i would like to think i'm more readable than him, at least

[petapan]

I feel like I have not voted scum all game and am trigger shy

i mean my record this game is horrible too so i'm gunshy and don't want to take responsibility but if i have to i'll review things

just really need to get one right today which shouldn't be that hard from my pov

[Datisi]

i mean i guess i had just found your dropoff scummy, like the energy that was there day 1 just kind of went away and there are incidental interaction things with notscience.

i get that. like i get that but the game started tiring me out, peta. day one was dragging out when it should've been half as long. i'd wake up to like 10 new pages, and i'd read them, and i'd feel i was getting *nothing* from them. and picking up day two after feeling like that for a good chunk of day one is difficult for me. like i said, i had it happen in a different game, where my contributions then boiled down to nothing but prodging and getting yeeted in mylo. i knew i probably wouldn't be able to offer the ~obvtownness~ i had early game but i figured something is better than nothing and i tried to act where my gut was taking me

i know i'm obviously biased but do you want to talk about those interactions?

[Datisi]

i am a sucker for the talking about the paranoid theorizing about isis stuff. (though the comment about thinking i was jk fell in that category but looking back it only came after the flip so not as strong. i was kind of trying to project the possibility of being pr earlier, when bridgeburners was musing about the possibility of there being only 2 groupscum i shut that down, because speculating on that is a low-key VT claim or subtle rolefishing)

also lmao at "i don't know how to read peta, so i'll try to read not_mafia", because i would like to think i'm more readable than him, at least

i mean that's about it. i noticed a few times how isis was throwing shade my way but there never really was a strong push from her, which again made me think it could be the ole "scum taking a lhf townie into lylo for ez town vote". granted i didn't spend too much time fleshing out this theory bc i knew it was gonna be massclaim time and mech > reads and not like mine were very good this game.

and ehh, isis told me she'd like to see that. while i don't necessarily know how to read you, that goes tenfold for not_mafia lol

[Datisi]

actually i just realized something that makes it less likely for ico to be scum here but outing it would not be beneficial

rn i'm going through peta's iso ctrl+f'ing "datisi" and i found this and thought i might as well write what this was

it was my reaction to 2909. specifically the "if you are all truly scumreading us despite my words here, go right ahead and flip us, i do not currently have the strength to combat multiple of you". bc this just gave me such a flashback to this moment in one run of chain of command, where ico was getting run up, and straight out claimed vt without anyone giving intent. i thought this was similar bc the "oh whatever flip me" reveals similar ~non-survivalism~ that i heavily *heavily* connect to town!ico.

the problem was that i connect it to vt!ico. and there was zero chance in hell i was revealing that while isis was alive. i know what she does with premature vt claims.

[Datisi]

let me be over the top if i want to goddammit

ok but here's the thing, peta: it looked f a k e a s f u c k to me. like did it think that i might have been wrong? yeah sure wouldn't be the first nor the last time. but infinity was on zero votes. he wasn't on e-1, or n_m's e-1, he was on zero votes. what does it matter. why would i not vote there. we can sit here and argue, but like you're not gonna convince me that my infinity suspicion was bad because you happen to not see how one gets that read?

lol lemme tell you a secret, i'm also not sure what i'm doing. though i feel like that is decently false, like i'm obv town on ico, i'm trending town on infinity, i said implo's reads kinda don't make sense as scum, i said you/skit is prob t/t, like? read. also like lol what can i tell you. that's what happens when day 1 is 40 pages and 7 days longer than it needed to be, and also everyone left alive in the game has some sorta reasons to be townie.

i mean, like, if something sticks out to me i'm gonna question it, not about trying to convince you on this but to interrogate your thinking because i wasn't sure it was real. it's not about it being bad but not thinking it was a believable response, although, putting it as "it looked fake to me" is more plausible. probably shouldn't chew this over any more but i felt like picking at it because i was concerned

but, well, "game hard and i don't know what to do" is at least something understandable! i probably could have just asked for your reads rather than taking this approach, w/e

peta what were your feelings on me when walking away from this discussion?

[Isis]

actually i just realized something that makes it less likely for ico to be scum here but outing it would not be beneficial

rn i'm going through peta's iso ctrl+f'ing "datisi" and i found this and thought i might as well write what this was

it was my reaction to 2909. specifically the "if you are all truly scumreading us despite my words here, go right ahead and flip us, i do not currently have the strength to combat multiple of you". bc this just gave me such a flashback to this moment in one run of chain of command, where ico was getting run up, and straight out claimed vt without anyone giving intent. i thought this was similar bc the "oh whatever flip me" reveals similar ~non-survivalism~ that i heavily *heavily* connect to town!ico.

the problem was that i connect it to vt!ico. and there was zero chance in hell i was revealing that while isis was alive. i know what she does with premature vt claims.

I'm cracking up

[Datisi]

isis, that menalque hammer in autumnal left me some long lasting trauma!!

[Isis]

Ahhhh that seems towny

[Isis]

It was a great hammer. It was a perfect hammer.

[Datisi]

i am town!!!

pedit: now i would usually vote you as a meme but because of obvious reason i won't

[Datisi]

also i have another idea brewing in my brain rn but i don't think it's ready yet

just a note for like soonish future

[petapan]

i mean i guess i had just found your dropoff scummy, like the energy that was there day 1 just kind of went away and there are incidental interaction things with notscience.

i get that. like i get that but the game started tiring me out, peta. day one was dragging out when it should've been half as long. i'd wake up to like 10 new pages, and i'd read them, and i'd feel i was getting *nothing* from them. and picking up day two after feeling like that for a good chunk of day one is difficult for me. like i said, i had it happen in a different game, where my contributions then boiled down to nothing but prodging and getting yeeted in mylo. i knew i probably wouldn't be able to offer the ~obvtownness~ i had early game but i figured something is better than nothing and i tried to act where my gut was taking me

i know i'm obviously biased but do you want to talk about those interactions?

ehh, interaction stuff are things you can never really respond to because it's like, well, you can't really account for whatever the hell notscience was doing. but from his brief time in the game, you get 439, which is kind of neutral questioning stuff and he ends with a non-read on you. more of that stuff in 489 (although in hindsight your post quoted there is, at least, a little more sharp on interrogating him than i thought). and that's also the famous schiavetto vote post, which because i am now in cosmic brain mode has me saying "hey, it could be distancing, you never know". and then his last comment on datisi is again a waffly crappy read in 523. it's almost so bad i wonder if he talks that way about a partner, lmao

i'm going to review something real quick

[petapan]

i mean i think ultimately i know what i'm going to do but might as well try things

looking at that newbie game with notscience didn't help, he barely spoke about his partner before i subbed in but but him toward the bottom of his readslist (the slot i took got tracker guiltied so i told him to just bus me so everything after i was in the game is useless)

[petapan]

let me be over the top if i want to goddammit

ok but here's the thing, peta: it looked f a k e a s f u c k to me. like did it think that i might have been wrong? yeah sure wouldn't be the first nor the last time. but infinity was on zero votes. he wasn't on e-1, or n_m's e-1, he was on zero votes. what does it matter. why would i not vote there. we can sit here and argue, but like you're not gonna convince me that my infinity suspicion was bad because you happen to not see how one gets that read?

lol lemme tell you a secret, i'm also not sure what i'm doing. though i feel like that is decently false, like i'm obv town on ico, i'm trending town on infinity, i said implo's reads kinda don't make sense as scum, i said you/skit is prob t/t, like? read. also like lol what can i tell you. that's what happens when day 1 is 40 pages and 7 days longer than it needed to be, and also everyone left alive in the game has some sorta reasons to be townie.

i mean, like, if something sticks out to me i'm gonna question it, not about trying to convince you on this but to interrogate your thinking because i wasn't sure it was real. it's not about it being bad but not thinking it was a believable response, although, putting it as "it looked fake to me" is more plausible. probably shouldn't chew this over any more but i felt like picking at it because i was concerned

but, well, "game hard and i don't know what to do" is at least something understandable! i probably could have just asked for your reads rather than taking this approach, w/e

peta what were your feelings on me when walking away from this discussion?

i don't remember actually. i think i walked away slightly placated but still skeptical

[petapan]

i'm going to reread past me about why i found datisi town, see if it still holds up, and probably decide i don't want to lose to not_mafia

[Datisi]

and that's also the famous schiavetto vote post, which because i am now in cosmic brain mode has me saying "hey, it could be distancing, you never know".

you know what's actually hilarious
in the game i mishammered, the scum that was pocketing me similarly distanced from his partner on day 1 like that
and that was one of the reasons i didn't wanna vote him in f3
the irony

[petapan]

Is ms meta quickhammers or something?

long days breed town apathy. nobody is saying we gotta be quickhammering.

lmao

[petapan]

had forgotten how much of the stuff i liked was in the very early game. so much bullshit transpired since then. it's not as strong as i remember it being but it's still okay.

[SirCakez]

Prodding Schiavetto