Mini 903 - Owarai TV (Game over... who won?)

[Anon]

I dont understand what the problem with Reck is. I think double voters are more likely town than scum for endgame reasons. And anyways, what would be reck's motivations for lying about being a doublevoter? His ability is easily proven, right?

.....

Baltar, do you really think Hell's first case on someone was on a scumbuddy? Anyways, what do you think of the way he reacted when people started saying that his vote on me was terrible? Do you think this reaction is more likely to come from a scumbuddy or from a scumbag backtracking?

....

Raskol, I have no idea how my last post links me to reck. Explain, pluz?

[dramonic]

I feel like this "Amished & Baltar VS Reck" is through and through a bunch of town bickering.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar, do you really think Hell's first case on someone was on a scumbuddy? Anyways, what do you think of the way he reacted when people started saying that his vote on me was terrible? Do you think this reaction is more likely to come from a scumbuddy or from a scumbag backtracking?

I'll give it a close look later today when I have some time. My initial response to it just in an iso of you and him isn't that you're town just because he made a limp-wristed attack on you.

I feel like this "Amished & Baltar VS Reck" is through and through a bunch of town bickering.

Wow, thanks for the in depth analysis. How about commenting on who is scum and why. Frankly, I don't even understand why you think Rai should be lynched, nor do I know who else you suspect. Right now, your general hanging out in the background reminds me of your scum play dram.

[Starbuck]

On Amished

I don't buy you and VP as nearly confirmed because either one of you could easily have been bussing. I'm not saying that you were, but it's a possibility that is still there.

Though I don't see why a scum double voter would use it to hammer his buddy.

To try and clear himself and go "Look at me! I hammered teh scumz!"

On xRECKONERx

I'm a Town Doublevoter. I mean, I don't know how I can convince you, especially since I used my double vote to hammer my scum buddy.

This is WIFOM. We do not know your alignment.
I am very, very wary of double voter claims because, as Amished already said, I was one in Tar's Legacy of the Ancients game and was scum. I have also seen multi-vote roles flip more often as scum than as town in games I've played on the View Askew board.

Although the wiki says in Doublevoter that it's alignment is pro-town.

I'm still torn on the issue and I need to think about it more.

I'm sure I can point out plenty of games where a Doublevoter is town.

Please provide these examples.

My meta of Starbuck tells me she is scum this game, and I'd like to not really reveal what that meta is because then she'll play against it. Let's just say... there's a pretty blatant difference between town-Starbuck in every other game I've played with her and scum-Starbuck.

Lawl, so you think I'd never try to mix up my meta when I'm in a game with you because of the above factor?

STARBUCK PLZ CONTRIBUTE MORE. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON D2 SO FAR?

Working on it, nubz! Hold ur horsez!

On Anon

Read somewhere that she is usually very aggressive to the wagons formed against her. But here, she has been totally the opposite, like being ironic to the wagon formed against her day 1. Starbuck, any explanation for this?

Read my above reply to xRx.

Also, I've also been rather busy and trying to catch up in all my games. This game was in night the longest so I was concentrating on others prior to this one.

[VP Baltar]

I don't buy you and VP as nearly confirmed because either one of you could easily have been bussing. I'm not saying that you were, but it's a possibility that is still there.

No offense, but you really must not know me very well if you think I'd play that poorly as scum. Given how inactive lots of people were yesterday and the amount of opposition to the Hell wagon, it would not have been difficult to get a mislynch if I was scum. Bussing in that situation would have been very suboptimal play.

I am very, very wary of double voter claims because, as Amished already said, I was one in Tar's Legacy of the Ancients game and was scum. I have also seen multi-vote roles flip more often as scum than as town in games I've played on the View Askew board.

I'm going to put this argument to bed now since it's pretty bad. Double voter can be either alignment. I've seen it more often as town than scum, so at best it's null and I don't think the likelihood of it being either alignment should be a consideration for anyone.

If you want examples of town double voter, you can look at Elmo in Dark Goma Mafia or ZEEnon and charlatan in Cowboy Bebop Mafia.

[Starbuck]

VP, that's why that statement was directed at Amished and not you.

And on the double voter issue, that's why I linked the double voter Wiki entry right below that and said I needed some more time to think on it.

[chauchaudotcom]

Because I read something about hammering in there. I questioned the hammer because I thought other people still wanted to gain information.

Other then VP's post telling ppl not to hammer (right after yours) I don't believe there was any mention of hammering.

my top scum reads at the moment are Reckoner, Anon, and chauchaudotcom

Explanations for me and Anon?

Now that hell has effectively flipped scum, I say we can lynch Rai.

Aside from his interaction with star's wagon why are you so positive Rai is scum?

[xRECKONERx]

What 'meta' do you think I have on you that you'd try to mix up, SB? And, if you're town, WHY would you want to mix up your meta when it could/would indicate that you

aren't town based on your usual meta

?

This does not compute for Starbucktown. Only for Starbuckscum.

[Starbuck]

Because I'm getting to easy to read for some people and also, like you do, I like to mix things up a bit. I don't like being predictable.

When others that I've never played with get told that I have a scummy town meta, they never believe it. I, personally, would like when I'm town to be read as pro-town, and not vice versa.

[VP Baltar]

VP, that's why that statement was directed at Amished and not you.

Oh? Guess you forgot to delete my name from it then.

And on the double voter issue, that's why I linked the double voter Wiki entry right below that and said I needed some more time to think on it.

The tone of your post was essentially "double voters are more likely to be scum than town". I was pointing out specific game examples where that was not the case (since you asked for them).

Explanations for me and Anon?

Anon was fighting the Hell wagon pretty hard when it came around.

And actually I'm just isoing you for the first time today. My gut is right on you I think.

Unvote, Vote: chauchaudotcom

You random vote hell and leave your vote there for a very long time. You ask quite a few questions but never arrive at a conclusion as to who is scum (at least one that would prompt you to change your vote). Then once a good wagon starts forming on hell you are quick to unvote because:

I know you guys are pressuring but I'd rather not have something happen while I'm away. Will catch up with everything when I return.

Well that's pretty much a BS reason to get off your random vote. Not only that, but you don't vote anyone else or really seem to have any serious suspects at that point.

Then you come back after Hell's weaksauce claim and say:

I felt pressure, I really didn't have any other way to defend myself, so I claimed my role.

I believe we got a confession my friends.

So you believe that he confessed to being scum, but you don't vote him? sounds more than a little fishy.

Two posts after that, you vote Raivann for a bullshit reason that turns out to be wrong anyway...wtf? CONFESSED SCUM YOU SAID.



You make it a point to avoid a wagon while putting up a show about thinking he's scum. I'm quite certain you're hell's buddy. More votes on this wagon please.

[chauchaudotcom]

You random vote hell and leave your vote there for a very long time. You ask quite a few questions but never arrive at a conclusion as to who is scum (at least one that would prompt you to change your vote).

Why would I take my vote off someone who was acting suspicious at the time?

Well that's pretty much a BS reason to get off your random vote. Not only that, but you don't vote anyone else or really seem to have any serious suspects at that point.

I actually wondered when someone would question me about this. That was my fault entirely. This is my first non-newbie games so I'm used to it being five to lynch. I didn't realize how stupid I sounded until I came back and saw that it was 7 to lynch not 5.

So you believe that he confessed to being scum, but you don't vote him? sounds more than a little fishy.

Because you were waiting for him to answer questions. Were you not the one who requested us not to hammer until you were done?

Two posts after that, you vote Raivann for a bullshit reason that turns out to be wrong anyway...wtf? CONFESSED SCUM YOU SAID.

Because it was the second wagon Rai jumped on in the game, with zero explanation. Hence, I voted him. But after ward Rai defended himself saying he had prior suspicions of hell before and I went back and found out that I was wrong, which explains my unvote.

[xRECKONERx]

Go go go go go. VPB vs cc.com is going to be epic.

[VP Baltar]

Why would I take my vote off someone who was acting suspicious at the time?

Perhaps because you weren't actually paying him any attention while you were at least questioning some other players (starbuck and dram iirc).

You didn't seem to have much of a care about hell at all actually.

I actually wondered when someone would question me about this. That was my fault entirely. This is my first non-newbie games so I'm used to it being five to lynch. I didn't realize how stupid I sounded until I came back and saw that it was 7 to lynch not 5.

Meh, I don't know if I buy this.

Because you were waiting for him to answer questions. Were you not the one who requested us not to hammer until you were done?

But you never returned to it is my point. There were people bailing off there for awhile and you would have had a chance to vote without putting him in danger of a lynch if you had wanted. Furthermore, you weren't even questioning him about anything or trying to convince people he was a good lynch. In fact, once the heat got turned up on Hell, you didn't have much really relevant to say at all.

Because it was the second wagon Rai jumped on in the game, with zero explanation. Hence, I voted him. But after ward Rai defended himself saying he had prior suspicions of hell before and I went back and found out that I was wrong, which explains my unvote.

Poorly researched counter wagon attempt is poorly researched.

Go go go go go. VPB vs cc.com is going to be epic.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure about this right now, so we should just lynch him and be done with it.

[xRECKONERx]

I agree.

Unvote; Vote: chauchau

. DOOOUBLE VOOOOOTE

[chauchaudotcom]

Perhaps because you weren't actually paying him any attention while you were at least questioning some other players (starbuck and dram iirc).

I believe I was accused of 'echoing'. So was there a need to repeat what others were already asking? Hell was suspicious enough that I felt alright to leave my vote on him, but I was still pursuing other suspects, such as star an dram. But neither produced anything I felt solid enough to change my vote.

Meh, I don't know if I buy this.

Whether you buy it or not, it's the truth.

But you never returned to it is my point. There were people bailing off there for awhile and you would have had a chance to vote without putting him in danger of a lynch if you had wanted. Furthermore, you weren't even questioning him about anything or trying to convince people he was a good lynch. In fact, once the heat got turned up on Hell, you didn't have much really relevant to say at all.

I wasn't as confident as you and Amished were about Hell being scum and as everyone was still waiting for Hell's reply I didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon (close to lynch or no) until he explained himself. At that point I was looking more at dram and dev's case against rec.

Poorly researched counter wagon attempt is poorly researched.

Not a wagon attempt, just a poorly researched vote.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure about this right now, so we should just lynch him and be done with it.

Ah how disappointed you'll be.

[Raivann]

Because I'm getting to easy to read for some people and also, like you do, I like to mix things up a bit. I don't like being predictable.

When others that I've never played with get told that I have a scummy town meta, they never believe it. I, personally, would like when I'm town to be read as pro-town, and not vice versa.

Why even worry about it?

@cc.com-Who do you wanna lynch today?

[xRECKONERx]

Wait, Raivann's alive?

Unvote

wtf how did i forget

too many good targets.

[Devestation]

Because I'm getting to easy to read for some people and also, like you do, I like to mix things up a bit. I don't like being predictable.

When others that I've never played with get told that I have a scummy town meta, they never believe it. I, personally, would like when I'm town to be read as pro-town, and not vice versa.

Is being easy to read a problem (assuming you are town)? Being unpredictable is only particularly useful if you're a power role.

[Devestation]

@VP: This is not a "last few days issue", my browsers disliking this site has been ongoing since about June last year.

[VP Baltar]

I believe I was accused of 'echoing'. So was there a need to repeat what others were already asking? Hell was suspicious enough that I felt alright to leave my vote on him, but I was still pursuing other suspects, such as star an dram. But neither produced anything I felt solid enough to change my vote

I don't think hell was even being questioned that much over that early period. Raskol made a brief accuasation and voted. Raivann said he was likely scum (with you) and never voted, and I made a brief accusation and voted. There wasn't a lot of straight up questioning of hell happening, so I think there was plenty of room for you to work stuff in there.

Also, the above quote from you seems to imply that you were worried about being seen as echoing if you had the same suspects as other people. I don't like self-awareness of appearence (hint:that is what first turned me on to hell).

I wasn't as confident as you and Amished were about Hell being scum and as everyone was still waiting for Hell's reply I didn't feel the need to jump on the bandwagon (close to lynch or no) until he explained himself. At that point I was looking more at dram and dev's case against rec.

Why though? You said in thread that he essentially claimed scum...those are pretty confident words if you ask me. Why would you say that if you weren't sure about him being scum? Why was it more important to look at dram and dev's cases than to solidify your feelings on hell?

Not a wagon attempt, just a poorly researched vote.

Any vote you think is for legitimately scummy reasons at the time is a wagon attempt.

Ah how disappointed you'll be.

Where have I heard something like this before? OH, right:

This seems like it is meant to provoke me into saying something wrong so you can lynch a townie

Wait, Raivann's alive?

Unvote wtf how did i forget

too many good targets.

I really don't think Raivann is scum here. What actual reasoning do you have for drawing this conclusion?

@VP: This is not a "last few days issue", my browsers disliking this site has been ongoing since about June last year.

ah. Time for a new browser perhaps? I use Google Chrome and it works quite well for the site, imo.

[chauchaudotcom]

@cc.com-Who do you wanna lynch today?

Dram, Dev + Star are my top suspects right now, in that order. So my top lynch candidate would be dram.

I don't think hell was even being questioned that much over that early period. Raskol made a brief accusation and voted. Raivann said he was likely scum (with you) and never voted, and I made a brief accusation and voted. There wasn't a lot of straight up questioning of hell happening, so I think there was plenty of room for you to work stuff in there.

Also, the above quote from you seems to imply that you were worried about being seen as echoing if you had the same suspects as other people. I don't like self-awareness of appearance (hint:that is what first turned me on to hell).

Anon was questioning Hell about his jump on the whole initial band wagoning attempts. I did try to question Hell then you and Rai jumped on me for it. If I question, my questions are empty and I'm scum, if I back off questioning then I'm too self-aware and am scum. See the problem?

Why though? You said in thread that he essentially claimed scum...those are pretty confident words if you ask me. Why would you say that if you weren't sure about him being scum? Why was it more important to look at dram and dev's cases than to solidify your feelings on hell?

It was to test Hell's reaction. And confident or not, I don't like to vote until a defense is given. And as for looking at dram and dev, there is more then one scum out there and seeing how I've gone through so many D1 mislynches it's only fair I pursue other suspects. It's not a matter of 'more' important or not because hell wasn't there to respond to accusations so while waiting I pursued other prospects.

Any vote you think is for legitimately scummy reasons at the time is a wagon attempt.

Fair enough. But I'm not scum so it wasn't a scum attempt at a bandwagon like you claim.

Where have I heard something like this before? OH, right:

You can't provoke me into saying something wrong because I'm not lying.

[Starbuck]

cc.com, what are your cases on Dev and myself?

[xRECKONERx]

cc.com, what are your cases on Dev and myself?

9 hours without a response PLEASE RESPOND KTHX

[Kise]

Vote Count:

xRECKONERx: 1

(Amished)

Starbuck: 1

(Anon)

Devestation: 1

(Raivann)

chauchaudotcom:

(VP Baltar)

Not Voting:

chauchaudotcom, Devestation, dramonic, Raskol, Starbuck, xRECKONERx

Threshold:

6 votes.

Deadline:

Feb 10th.

Just sent out a few disturbing messages.... I apologize if I can't control myself sometimes, but I got love to give.

[Starbuck]

cc.com, what are your cases on Dev and myself?

I meant to include dramonic here as well.