Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[Korts]

Actually, I won't read everything if I don't need to.

You do need to.

If you're comfortable having me constantly behind by a growing number of pages, I can read everything. Otherwise, a rough outline with links to important posts should be enough.

Yos' miller claim seems unprovoked, which makes it pretty much a nulltell.

=======================

Page 16 Votecount

camn (0/7):
charter (0/7):
DizzyIzzyB13 (0/7):
Ether (2/7): Yosarian2, camn
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (2/7): Incognito, Patrick
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (1/7): Xdaamno
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (1/7): Green Crayons,
Yosarian2 (3/7): OhGodMyLife, charter, Ether

Not voting (3/12):

skitzer, DizzyIzzyB13, Korts,

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Countdown To Deadline
============================

[Incognito]

Mod:

I'm voting Korts

.

And after his last few posts, I feel awesome about it. More later.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I generally find attempts to control the actions of other players to be scummy. This has been noted. I will vote when I'm damn well ready, thanks.

I find that committing to a vote tells the rest of the players something about you.
I also find AVOIDING letting other people know things about you to be scummy.

Avoiding voting is not the same as not voting.

[Patrick]

Mod

: I'm also voting Korts.

[Patrick]

Why am I not surprised that when I specifically ask for the opinions of people not named Yosarian2 and Patrick they're among the first three to respond?

Don't give me this bull. You said something that wasn't true, of course I'm going to point it out.

Actually, I won't read everything if I don't need to. What was the context or apropos to Yos' miller claim, and what were the relevant reactions? Has there been anything else notable?

Yos claimed miller out of nowhere. It's surely your responsibility to decide for yourself what was notable about the reactions. How many pages behind are you? Your first post back implies only a couple of pages, but then on this page you're acting like you don't have a chance of catching up unless people link you to highlights.

[Yosarian2]

In my experience. . scum don't drop atom bombs on people day 1.

Oh, speaking of which, I'm a miller.

It sounds like TownYos was either waiting for an opportunity, or forgot to say this earlier. Which is it, Yos, if the question is fair?

I was planning to claim miller at some point during day 1, like I said. I didn't really want to do it right at the start of day 1, because I had wanted to let some other conversations start up first, but I didn't want to wait too long either, wanted to make sure the town had enough time to dicuss my claim and act in a rational way about it. (shrug) Seems like the timing worked out pretty well; town had time to talk and think about my claim, got lots of interesting reactions, and it didn't stifle other lines of discussion.

So, Xdaamno, here's the key question for you to answer. If you had to pick someone to lynch, right now, who would it be? The way you haven't really attacked or voted anyone all day is really the main reason I'm suspecting you at this point.

[Yosarian2]

Edit: Well, you're voting Patrick, but apparently you don't think he's scummy. So who do you think IS?

[Green Crayons]

Glad to see I have plenty to read up on. It'll give me something to do Monday morning. Hope everyone's weekend has been bearable.

[camn]

I generally find attempts to control the actions of other players to be scummy. This has been noted. I will vote when I'm damn well ready, thanks.

I find that committing to a vote tells the rest of the players something about you.
I also find AVOIDING letting other people know things about you to be scummy.

Avoiding voting is not the same as not voting.

Can I vote for Ether AND Dizzy all at the same time?

[Patrick]

I don't see a big deal about Izzy not voting yet, actually. I'm often conservative with my vote too.

[vollkan]

Votecount fixed.

[Korts]

Yos claimed miller out of nowhere. It's surely your responsibility to decide for yourself what was notable about the reactions. How many pages behind are you? Your first post back implies only a couple of pages, but then on this page you're acting like you don't have a chance of catching up unless people link you to highlights.

I am now nine pages behind. First time I fell behind it was only one and a half pages. I didn't read up with the same speed that others kept posting. Like I said, I don't want to be constantly behind, so unless there are specifics which you want me to read, I won't toil my way through nine pages.

Incog, nice way to avoid realposting. Please answer my questions.

[Ether]

Sometimes, I don't like myself very much. I woke up much less enthusiastic about my Yosvote than I was when I placed it, finding myself under suspicion that I...didn't really disagree with, and put off addressing it. (On Thursday, I

was

doing a programming cram, but that's Thursday.) This is a recovery mode post; I won't really feel comfortable until I'm interacting again.

Izzy's 250 bugs me, putting both me and Yosarian in her top three. The second part of her case on me is bullshit--I do not need her opinion to bandwagon people, thank you very much. I didn't get what Patrick saw in it at the time, either. (Epilogue: Incognito is stealing my lines.)

The "look at Xdaamno's posts [up to 253]" method: Canary town. That's it. There's a reason I asked Xdaamno and Izzy. I'm assuming from the fact that Xdaamno's keeping his Patvote here without any update on his view of him that he is not in fact particularly suspicious of anyone else at this point. (Xdaamno has this pattern of getting into theory arguments without commenting on his reads of players. Urgh.)

I don't get Camn's 261 case on me at all. I pushed Incognito on a point you agreed with. It was proven incorrect. I got off. I started interrogating/voting other people. What exactly is the issue here?

Kort's 265 is also beyond my comprehension wheeeeeee belated easy self-defense I could have done last week. I am all for directing suspicions.

For all I say about Izzy, Charter's 305 push on her feels

weird.

Ether's inactivity is less supicious. I haven;t seen her in scumchat for a few days, and she hasn't been posting. I'm willing to let that slide.

To be fair, I'm rarely in ScumChat anyway anymore, and this is my only game. I'm around. I'm almost certainly more likely to lurk as scum. I should totally be posting here more.

OGML, that is too many quotes don't do that again.

There.

Yosarian's claim still bugs me. I don't think OGML's insinuations are necessarily valid, but I won't get into that. What I

like

about his play is self-defense and Caffhate, and I do not have the confident meta on him he attributed to me. (Recently, I said I did, but I had a good taste in my mouth from catching a specific townish slip in 728. See 720 for details.) I'll

unvote

, which is shorthand for meh I'll put this off.

I'm WIFOMing myself over the Charter/Izzy interactions, and I want someone to explain Xdaamno's meta to me. (I'm not going to skim his other games myself right now. It's a schoolnight.

Was

a schoolnight.)

So hey, Korts. I just toiled through seven pages. What's up?

[Xdaamno]

In my experience. . scum don't drop atom bombs on people day 1.

Oh, speaking of which, I'm a miller.

It sounds like TownYos was either waiting for an opportunity, or forgot to say this earlier. Which is it, Yos, if the question is fair?

I was planning to claim miller at some point during day 1, like I said. I didn't really want to do it right at the start of day 1, because I had wanted to let some other conversations start up first, but I didn't want to wait too long either, wanted to make sure the town had enough time to dicuss my claim and act in a rational way about it. (shrug) Seems like the timing worked out pretty well; town had time to talk and think about my claim, got lots of interesting reactions, and it didn't stifle other lines of discussion.

So, Xdaamno, here's the key question for you to answer. If you had to pick someone to lynch, right now, who would it be? The way you haven't really attacked or voted anyone all day is really the main reason I'm suspecting you at this point.

Hmm, looks like you're trying to divert my attention. That's a non-sequitur (although I will answer it.) Your answer seems logical to me, though, so I guess it dosen't mean anything.

Patrick or OGML. Both seem to be trying to appear town, and OGML has been completely serious all game IGMEOYT.

[Xdaamno]

The "look at Xdaamno's posts [up to 253]" method: Canary town. That's it. There's a reason I asked Xdaamno and Izzy. I'm assuming from the fact that Xdaamno's keeping his Patvote here without any update on his view of him that he is not in fact particularly suspicious of anyone else at this point. (Xdaamno has this pattern of getting into theory arguments without commenting on his reads of players. Urgh.)

I know...

[Ether]

I woke up much less enthusiastic about my Yosvote than I was when I placed it, finding myself under suspicion that I...didn't really disagree with, and put off addressing it.

Yosarian's claim still bugs me.

Clarification: in a probably-townish-but-meh sort of way.

[Yosarian2]

Hmm, looks like you're trying to divert my attention. That's a non-sequitur (although I will answer it.)

No; I've been making clear for a while that the fact you haven't attacked anyone at all yet, the fact that while you've been posting and making comments, you haven't done any real scumhunting yet, is part of the reason I find you suspicious.

Patrick or OGML. Both seem to be trying to appear town, and OGML has been completely serious all game IGMEOYT.

How are they "trying to appear town"? Can you be a little more specific?

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, Ether's last post is giving me a better vibe; the whole thing feels honest to me.

Ether: Are you scum?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Yos claimed miller out of nowhere. It's surely your responsibility to decide for yourself what was notable about the reactions. How many pages behind are you? Your first post back implies only a couple of pages, but then on this page you're acting like you don't have a chance of catching up unless people link you to highlights.

I am now nine pages behind. First time I fell behind it was only one and a half pages. I didn't read up with the same speed that others kept posting. Like I said, I don't want to be constantly behind, so unless there are specifics which you want me to read, I won't toil my way through nine pages.

Incog, nice way to avoid realposting. Please answer my questions.

You lurked through the game, and now you're trying to make other people make cases for you. Nine pages really isn't all that much to catch up on, generally, even if it is more than half the game so far. You certainly give the impression that you have the time do it, given your activity elsewhere. You're acting in a very, untownish way.

vote: Korts

[Green Crayons]

Just as I read:

Dizzy's 308 is ridiculous. She has successfully become too conservative to a fault - getting to page 13 without a single suspect is incredibly bad play. Her 320 is a bad excuse as to why she hasn't made a solid commitment yet. However, I still only see town vibes coming from her, so I don't understand all of the Dizzy hate except that it might be coming from opportunistic scumbags.

I agree with OGML's 319 sentiment.

You made a decision that scum-Yos would not take this risk, and now you're going to great lengths to make excuses for everything Yos has done since, like calling the claim "sloppy," instead of "scummy," probably because you've got a confirmation bias based on your opinion that this just isn't a move scum-Yos would make.

I still disagree with the WIFOMing myself, but I will admit that I'm probably affected by confirmation bias. Truth be told, I think I'm going to consider Yos' miller claim as null - I can see it from both sides and attempting to discern his guilty/innocence from that alone is wrecking my ability to properly judge him.

Anyways, I like some of what what OGML had to say in 323 re: Yos and charter. Still haven't warmed up to the Patrick hate (just not seeing it - and, seriously, I like all of his posts). Not too big of a fan of the camn suspicion, either - but I do have issue with her constant self-depreciation, as it could easily be a scum cover for her lack of legitimate contribution.

Let's translate. OGML: "Hey, I bet I can be emotionally manipulative and get more people to vote Yos here even though my arguments have no validity."

How was OGML being emotionally manipulative?

If Ether, as town, has correctly and confidently read me, as town, in the last several games we've played together when we were both town, the fact that she isn't doing so now is unusual, and perhaps a red flag.

Or maybe you're scum and that's why she can't get a town read? What do you think of her 387 re: this point of yours?

Re: OGML's 349, I don't recall them "hammering" away. But I do recall your initial hint and thought it was incredibly bad play at tipping your hand and scum probably caught it just as easily as anyone else. Also, is Yos' 351 saying he actually can't think of a role where the initial assumption is that a miller would not fit in the setup?

Glad to see X is still up to form in being scummy in his 353 and 358. And I'm still happy with my vote.

Actually, I won't read everything if I don't need to. What was the context or apropos to Yos' miller claim, and what were the relevant reactions? Has there been anything else notable?

blol. Bad town play. Your 375 demand for a synopsis and post links of the game you should be keeping up with is horrible.

This is a recovery mode post; I won't really feel comfortable until I'm interacting again.

Then I'm assuming you won't be slipping back into the shadows once again?

[Xdaamno]

Hmm, looks like you're trying to divert my attention. That's a non-sequitur (although I will answer it.)

No; I've been making clear for a while that the fact you haven't attacked anyone at all yet, the fact that while you've been posting and making comments, you haven't done any real scumhunting yet, is part of the reason I find you suspicious.

Yes, I know. It's just that you followed up discussion about yourself with "so here's the key question for you to answer". As I implied in the parenthesis, I don't think that invalidates either of your points at all, I'm just noting something.

[Yosarian2]

Let's translate. OGML: "Hey, I bet I can be emotionally manipulative and get more people to vote Yos here even though my arguments have no validity."

How was OGML being emotionally manipulative?

Because it wasn't a logical argument he was making, it was one just designed to get an emotional reaction out of the people reading. There was nothing wrong with me asking incog what he thought about Ether, there is certanly no reason I wouldn't make those posts as town, and he didn't give a reason; he just tried to discribe my post in such a way as to make people paranoid about my motives.

Or maybe you're scum and that's why she can't get a town read?

Look, when I'm trying to figure out if someone is scum or not, I'm going to use all the facts avalable to me, including my own knowlege of my own role. That's clearly not an argument that's going to convince people who suspect me, nor should it; it was a part of my thought process, though.

What do you think of her 387 re: this point of yours?

Well, like I already said:

Anyway, Ether's last post is giving me a better vibe; the whole thing feels honest to me.

Especally the part when she admitted she lurked in order to avoid dealing with the attack on her; I was pretty sure that was what she was doing, and the fact she admitted it actually makes me feel a little better about her.

[OhGodMyLife]

Because it wasn't a logical argument he was making, it was one just designed to get an emotional reaction out of the people reading. There was nothing wrong with me asking incog what he thought about Ether, there is certanly no reason I wouldn't make those posts as town, and he didn't give a reason; he just tried to discribe my post in such a way as to make people paranoid about my motives.

Sorry, try again.

Appeal to Authority is, in fact, a scum tell and a logical point in my argument. Town has no reason to appeal to authority to strengthen their arguments. Additionally, casting Incognito as the authority which you are appealing to is a form of buddying up to him.

[OhGodMyLife]

The only person aside from Yosarian2 that I see myself being willing to lynch today is charter.

[Yosarian2]

Appeal to Authority is, in fact, a scum tell and a logical point in my argument.

A. It's not, if there is reason to think athority actually is a reliable source

and, more importantly

B. I never did anything even remotly RESEMBLING an appeal to athority. You are again just completly making stuff up here. I *ASKED* Incognito about Ether, because I wanted to see his reaction, because I thought Ether was scum. If you think someone is scum, you want to get as many other people to talk about them as possible, to say what they think about that person, so if you are right, then when they do flip scum, you have more information about who their scum partner is.

Dude, every single one of your posts has just been trying to find some new excuse to attack me. Most of them don't even make sense, like this one dosn't. Now, if I had said "Drr, Incog is going after Ether, I'm going to follow him blindly" then that might make sense, but I *NEVER* said *ANYTHING* that you anyone could even imagine looked like that. And I also can't imagine how me demanding multiple times to know what he thinks about Ether could be considered "buddying up"; that comment that "he can read Ether" wasn't an "appeal to athority", it was an obvious but unavoidable trap that would put him in a very tricky position if he was scum with Ether. And I'm sure you know that's what I was doing; it certanly wasn't subtle.