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[Gypyx]

UNVOTE:

i kinda need to stop overgaming myself tbh

will be thinking about all this

[Enchant]

You've had a week since your post suggesting we look at Ranger and Geraintm's content

It's a fair question

Don't change the context. You asked me who's Scum—I answered.

And for the record I play as I want to play, and if I can, not how YOU want me to. I'm not on YOUR fucking clock. I worked 8 12-hour shifts in a row, had one day off to get my lawn chores done, and am working again for a stretch. I DON'T HAVE TIME to rip open this game and comb through flipped Scum's posts. That doesn't make me SCUM. It only PISSES ME OFF when you try to push me to put more time into this game when I can't. I play as I can, and as I want.

Don't mind if i counter this?


We play like WE want. Lycan wants to vote you out because that's how LYCAN wants to play. Lycan WANTS to vote you because you didn't manage to find scum in 7 days. If you want to play how YOU want. You can't supress everyone else from playing like they want.


Yes. Your claim about freedom suddenly sucks because not only you are free. Everyone else to.

[Lycanfire]

Frankly I can be right about your align and your job can also keep you away from the game.

[Gypyx]

VOTE: KayJayQueue

[Val89]

Listen folks, I've spent the morning trying to write my case for scum!Kay, and even laying out just the D1 I've ended up with a fucking monster of a wall-post. I've saved it as a draft. I can post it if people want to see my work, but I am worried it'll get lost in the noise, so I'll try and put it to you in short hand:

Who do you associate Kay pushing most strongly on Day 1?
Who does Kay specifically avoid voting Day 1, even when asked directly 3 times, without ever giving reasons why?

Remind yourself that the state of the game at EoD was NotAScum was the leading wagon, eventually hammered by Gypyx to reveal a mislim, with scum!Dave as the leading alternative.

Can you find a way to tally those behaviours with this statement, and her subsequent behaviour in the last couple of posts before the flip at 633:

I don’t really have an opinion either way on Dave vs NAS, the person I wanted to lim today got to 5 votes at one point but then most people backed off the wagon so I doubt that’s going to happen.

[Random Nurse]

Frankly I can be right about your align and your job can also keep you away from the game.

And in this case you're wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree, and you will look rather stupid if you persuade the rest to mis-lim me today.

[Lycanfire]

I mean if you post it i'll read it can't say the rest for everyone else tbh

[Lycanfire]

Frankly I can be right about your align and your job can also keep you away from the game.

And in this case you're wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree, and you will look rather stupid if you persuade the rest to mis-lim me today.

Nah

[Enchant]

I mean if you post it i'll read it can't say the rest for everyone else tbh

I suggest you to take this chance while you can.

[Lycanfire]

Hah

[Enchant]

Hah

Not Hah.

Think about our position again. If you want RM to be eliminated, Jay has to go first.

[Enchant]

So ya must hammer.

[Val89]

Alrighty.

Don't open the spoiler tags, Enchant, if you want to keep your breakfast down.

Spoiler: WARNING. Herein lies Wallpost.

Day One

Early doors, and we have scum voting for scum already.

Spoiler: VC 1.05

1.05

Votecount 1.05

davesaz

(4): Titus,

Snow2697

,

geraintm

,

Hu Tao

Little Will o' Wisp (2): Gypyx, JacksonVirgo

Hu Tao

(2):

davesaz

,

NotAScum

Snow2697

(1): PenguinPower
Titus (1):

Naerys

JacksonVirgo

(1):

Thomith

Not Voting (4): Random Nurse, Oblivion, KayJayQueue, Little Will o' Wisp

This is supposed be an answer to why I think scum!Kay, so I'll leave a discussion as to the likelihood of scum!Titus-Dave-Gera pulling that little maneuverer as an exercise to the reader. Needless to say, one of the first 'proper' wagons of the game after the speed wagon is building on scumslot.

Right now, my initial callout is

Snow Naerys

geratim

and

Dave

.

Can you expand your reasoning for

Snow

and

Naerys

?

While that is happening, here is Kay, asking Titus for justification on the 2 of the 3 slots in that list that aren't the other known scum. I've looked, and I can't see any reason why she didn't just ask for all 3, certainly Titus just responds as if she had. It smells to me like Kay was hoping Titus would give something that others could latch on to that would direct that wagon away from scum - without accidently diverting it on to the other if the thread preferred her reasons for

Gera

. I think it was early enough in the game that in the rush to try and look like you were solving, you might not stop to consider (or care much) what that would look like at some unknown point in the future there had been several flips.

Well from what I saw, the reasons that people were sussing/voting her were things that I did as well. So if I agreed with the vote it would be like agreeing that I was in the same boat. Obviously, I don't agree with that assessment.

This reads overly defensive to me - nobody else had picked up on the similarities enough to care, but Kay thought the reasons people (at that point,

Willow

,

Thom

and Titus) were voting

Naerys

also applied to her and didn't want that wagon to go though either - for that reason. I can't really figure out what those reasons were - Titus said in 172 it was because they looked like

Dave

partners, which surely can't be what Kay means else that would basically have been a scumslip - which points to extra sensitivity as to how her slot might be perceived to me.

So, she doesn't want

Naerys

, but she apparently doesn't want to join on

Dave

either. Even when directly asked. She doesn't give reasons why not though, and plays it off as a joke. Eventually, she was eventually called out on it and still didn't explain but just passively asks if he's to be the flip after all:

Spoiler: Won't join dave wagon because reasons

Just because a wagon is big(ger) doesn’t make it the right move.

And I say this as someone who is still willing to vote Will’o. I’m just saying I don’t think that’s a great way to look at wagons.

Wanna vote dave?

Oh no is this the peer pressure my mom warned me about…

NaS can be vigged later. Every game has a vigilante these days, as you found out last game

Dave gives more info

Stop being logical

I’m a lil shocked nobody is coming after my ass considering how little I’ve posted compared to usual

I’ll come after your ass

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Why do you refuse to vote dave?

Is that still a thing? I don’t remember the VC, I thought the vote moved to NAS sorry.

If it matters, my vote on Jack is very unserious.

Are we flipping Dave today?

How many votes do we need on him to demand a claim? (I’m being serious with that question, is E-1 the usual “claim or die” slot?)

At this point here is the VC, updated from 1.16:

1.16 with vote changes

NotAScum (7): Thomith, Titus, PenguinPower, Naerys, geraintm, Random Nurse, davesaz
davesaz (3): Hu Tao, Snow2697, Little Will o' Wisp
PenguinPower (1): JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo (1): KayJayQueue

Not Voting (1): Oblivion

With 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to secure an execution.

Up until that recent "very unserious" vote on JV, Kay had been pretty vocal driver on the NAS wagon, being first on it, and telling Oblivion that NAS would be her fantasy insta-flip. The last few vote changes have consolidated around NAS and Dave. In that context, her next comment is rather strange:

I don’t really have an opinion either way on Dave vs NAS, the person I wanted to lim today got to 5 votes at one point but then most people backed off the wagon so I doubt that’s going to happen.

The "person I wanted to lim today" can't be NAS, despite her saying so to Oblivion, since he's at E-1, I can only assume it was the other "politic answer" she then votes for - Willow.

I can't tally these actions with the statement that she doesn't "really have an opinion either way on Dave vs Nas". She was the first person to vote Nas, who is now in hammer range, she told oblivion she would chose NAS to flip if she had a free choice, she said "Finally, I’ve found my people lol" in 499 when someone else finally votes Nas as well, and rejoins the wagon, and she pointily AVOIDS voting Dave, without giving reasons, when asked directly three times.

I don't blame her, its' a tricky spot to be in if she is scum - the flip she had been trying to bring about is now about to be revealed as a mislim, and the credible alternative is her partner. I can only make it make sense by assuming she really does have skin the game - she's pushed one wagon, deliberately avoided another despite being asked to join it, but publicly says she doesn't care, and now tries, with someone she had been pushing at E-1 and a few hours left on the clock, to russle up a wagon on a third party - Willow.

[Lycanfire]

I don't think I follow the problem you're outlining

I have confidence in a random nurse elimination today

People need to get the confidence in it / read the damn thread / work out every other last suspicion first, and whatever their hangup is another elimination isn't the only solution.

[Enchant]

I don't think I follow the problem you're outlining

I have confidence in a random nurse elimination today

People need to get the confidence in it / read the damn thread / work out every other last suspicion first, and whatever their hangup is another elimination isn't the only solution.

Do it! Do it, do it, do it, do it!

[Val89]

Here, you can have this also.

I often find it counterproductive for rep-ins to read the last few pages of a game, decide they think someone is scum, vote them, and then read the game from the beginning with the outlook that someone is scum already and trying to validate that vote/read instead of just starting from the beginning and developing reads as the game progresses.

This is a misrepresentation of my approach here - perhaps not even deliberate, but I have to ask myself how many times Kay has done what she says here, or seen it done, to qualify as "often" - I wager if pushed, she can offer no actual examples of games this has happened and that line was simply a thinly veiled attempt to discredit a slot she was prewarned might push her. I think was clear in my #3501 I had seen something that had given me a light scumping, enough to justify what was not much more than the late-joiners equivalent of an RVS vote, a place to park and maybe provoke a bit of discussion on the front-end in order to give me an idea on what the issues involved in the game were that I should give an eye on - as I went back to the beginning with fresh eyes. To say I decided "someone is scum already and trying to validate that" is off the mark.

Going back and reading forward, I did have the benefit of 6 green and 2 red flips and was able to mentally picture those names and posts in the appropriate colour as I read. I made notes of the post numbers that I thought had something interesting re: the unsorted slots, and - while I accept there might have been an element of unconscious confbiasing, I wasn't specifically looking only to find evidence of scum!Kay, I found good proportion of my scribbles were scumpings about Kay.

A lot of this stuff might well have some townie process behind it, but it seems to me to coincidentally benefit a Kay-Ranger-Gera scumteam; not 100% of the time, but so often I don't think I can justifiably consider it as co-incidence. I am aware I am talking in broad terms without giving any examples, but the other part of it is I just don't see who

else

it could be at this point.

TLDR: Kay-Ranger-Gera explains a lot of the odd stuff that pinged me, particulary D1, more often that I can consider mere co-incidence; and PoE.

[Lycanfire]

Thicc post

Kay was pretty transparent about wanting willow d1 iirc

Instaflip comment vs not having a preference post would be an inconsistency, I'll need to take a look at that.

I'm not trying to gotcha with this comment but why is my pred coloured green? Other than the obvious if-3-scum-then-its-a-given

[Enchant]

I am soooooooooo disapointed.

[Enchant]

Lycan i wish to ask question to you.


Who you townrear

[Val89]

I don't think I follow the problem you're outlining

Let me try and put it to you this way then. You REALLY want Random Nurse, and you've been pushing all day. I've been asking you to vote Kay, and you don't want you.

If you were to swerve off a joke-vote Gypyx now, and in your absence RN went E-1 with Kay as an alternative, what on earth would you come back to the thread and tell us you don't have strong opinions on RN v Kay and try and rustle up a vote on Enchant instead?

[Lycanfire]

Honestly, you're all in my town rear view mirror

[Lycanfire]

The not-following-problem comment was a reply to enchant but maybe sleep deprivation is kicking in

[Lycanfire]

But yes analogy to kay eod1 i'll read it tomorrow

[Lycanfire]

(Today)

[Val89]

I'm not trying to gotcha with this comment but why is my pred coloured green?

I was colouring the known flips. If I have done one that shouldn't be, it's a mistake.