Open 191 - Paris Mafia II (Game Over!)

[flinter]

ok, last one is a good point, middle one isn't: vigs are not counterclaimed, and claimed vigs are never lynched. The big benefit of the watcher knowing the vig is only in this situation

[quote="game winning strategy"[/quote]In case only one member of the mafia is left, and the mimes are gone, with the vig and the watcher still alive, the vig should be known to the watcher. Town should no-lynch, hereby ensuring that they won't accidentaly put the watcher/vig combination in trouble. Vig shoots, and the mafia shoots. If the mafia shoots the vig, the watcher will see. town wins. If the watcher is killed (just as big a chance as the vig killing the last mafia), town should go back to the old way of getting scum (lynches and kills).[/quote]

Guess we have to talk about it then. I know kise is antitown, I am not sure if he is a mime. I read this much stronger with Reck.

[VP Baltar]

Vote Count 1-12

:

XScorpion ~ L-3 (flinter, Rhinox, kyle99, Kise)

Looker ~ L-5 (XScorpion, Dry-fit)
kyle99 ~ L-6 (xRECKONERx)
Mylynes ~ L-6 (Gerty)
flinter ~ L-6 (xofelf)
Rhinox ~ L-6 (hitogoroshi)
Dry-fit ~ L-6 (Looker)

Not Voting: Mylynes

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is January 18 at roughly 8 a.m. (GMT-5).

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, we should direct vig/watcher tbqh

[Looker]

Wow there has been a lot of posting recently and I've read through everything one time but I'm about to go to bed so when I wake up I'll take to the time to go back and analyze everything better and then post my opinions on what has happened when I can.

Yeah but I'm tired of waiting around to die so just do me a favour and kill me.
Don't make me do it myself, it really won't help town that much -_-

Why are you so ready to die? Could it be because you are actually a mime and want to get lynched? Or you could be scum and wanting us to believe you are town because you don't care if you are lynched. You could also be town as you claim but you are coming off as scummy to me.

Unvote

I would rather XScorpion not get lynched at least until we have a definite vig target for the night. I'm not sure Kise is a mime but he has come off as scum to me but I think we may find a better vig target tonight. There are 2 mimes out there and we only need to vig 1 of them.

What is your opinion of Dry-Fit?

[XScorpion]

Why am I not dead yet
Vig Kise
Lynch me
Get this over with plz.

[Looker]

I think you should vote Dry-Fit now, Scorp

[XScorpion]

I don't follow scum's advice.

[Looker]

Lol, that's funny, cuz if

I

followed scum's advice, I'd be voting you by now.

[XScorpion]

Really? Which scum was that? Flinter? Cuz I don't think flinter is scum.

[Looker]

She's not the only one that's suggested I vote you.

[Dry-fit]

What would a towny do when his second preference is preffered by the rest of the town? Work a lot to get your first preference up and maybe let this guy of the hook? Of course not, he would hammer.

XScorp was not at L-1. I wouldn't have hammered even if he was because we had just had a flurry of posts and everyone else needed to catch up. I still want Looker to be the lynch today.

[XScorpion]

Alright looker, then who are you referring to?

[Looker]

Okay, XScorpion has been my second suspect after Looker for a while. I'm not at all opposed to his lynch. He isn't making any attempts to scumhunt despite countless calls to. In fact, he keeps coming up with excuses to be useless.

[xRECKONERx]

Where did dry-fit come from, and why is he scum?

[Looker]

I don't know. I just don't want XScorpion dying when Dry-Fit's just now come in

[Kise]

Quick question, Scorp. What was your role last time this game was running?

[Mylynes]

Why am I not dead yet
Vig Kise
Lynch me
Get this over with plz.

Why are people so keen on lynching someone who appears to want to be lynched? Does this not scream mime to anyone? Whether XScorpion is mafia or mime I think the possibility of him being mime could make him a possible vig target for tonight. I'm also not entirely convinced that Kise is a mime but he also looks like a good vig target.

looker is obvscum.
I'm hoping that by dying today, the other scum will be revealed to the surviving town. So by all means, go ahead and hammer.

How exactly would your death as VT help kill scum better than trying to lynch properly today? Also why are you trying to get killed as VT in a game where we have mimes who have to be lynched to win?

What is your opinion of Dry-Fit?

Looking over his posts it doesn't look like he has really done anything scummy but I don't have a very good read on him because he hasn't done much yet.

Lets see.. I am getting town vibes from xRECKONERx and hitogoroshi. I'm getting mixed vibes from Kise, XScorpion, and looker.

Still not done analyzing everything yet though..

[Looker]

No rush, we can wait

[flinter]

What would a towny do when his second preference is preffered by the rest of the town? Work a lot to get your first preference up and maybe let this guy of the hook? Of course not, he would hammer.

XScorp was not at L-1. I wouldn't have hammered even if he was because we had just had a flurry of posts and everyone else needed to catch up. I still want Looker to be the lynch today.

no, he wasn't at L-1.

But you didn't know at that moment, as you would have posted it, and lookers posts came after this. You reacted as in the situation where he was at L-1. And on this moment, you even completely forgot your suspicion of Scorpion.

Lets make this clear: I don't see the case on looker. I see he hops with his vote, I see he is weird.

But I have the feeling looker is often not normal, so weird doesn't bother me at all. And scummy, no I don't think looker is that.

[Looker]

Of course I'm not scummy, it's just that this is a game where everyone feels falsely comfortable with believing they can predict your every move. Right now, I just want to know what candidate Mylynes comes up with so we can get this show on the road.

[Rhinox]

So, you don't believe there is any chance whatsoever that I'm just a bad, lazy townie who got frustrated with the last 191 and doesn't feel as confident anymore about games with mimes?
Well on the bright side, at least if I get lynched today you don't hit a mime...

No, and I really don't like AtE.

But I found the question to be a waste of time. Kyle had given the reason for his vote, you even included it. It was the postcount that made him pick Sarag (1 post). But Gerty did post more, so the reason was accidentaly wrong, and an unvote was the logical conclusion.

Now, if you find it scummy to vote a lurker and then unvote doing nothing (no scumhunting), then that is fine. If you find this ok, good too. But you asked for something that was pretty obvious, and so the answer could only be this. You didn't need the answer to make a decision about Kyle.

This makes that your question did fill the thread, but added little. A waste of a little bit of time. I had to say that.

meh... I didn't realize kyle voted 'sarag' for lurking... when I looked at this post, I thought kyle was waiting for sarag to explain something. In otherwords, I skimmed over the first sentence. My bad.

More importantly, why did you let kyle off the hook so easily? Why didn't you insist he pick someone else then? Thats really what I was getting at after. Not THAT he unvoted, but that he really just completely dodged what you asked of him... pick smoeone to lynch. Maybe he picked sarag because he's a mime and he knew voting sarag wouldn't lead to a lynch. Furthermore, the unvote was just a show anyways, because most mods won't count a vote on a player not in the game.

Rhinox is in the 1000+ post club, and I really wasn't expecting this. A lot of set-up speculation and general information instead of analysis. His main thought was that kise is scum or mime, oh wait just kidding I agree he's probably town. And then he follows up by jumping on the scorpion wagon. Hey, rhinox, there are players in this game, and it'd be kinda cool if you, y'know, commented on their actions, and not just tried to play what-should-the-vig-do.

Did you meta my games, or are you simply assuming that because I have a lot of posts that I must prescribe to a certain style of play that you imagine all players with lots of posts should have? Do you know anything about me or how I play at all? Would you be making this argument if my username were "zwets"?

And for the record, kise probably is town, and scorpion probably is scum, and I've commented on players and things as I see appropriate. And I find it very odd that you single me out for directing the vig, what with all the confusion about win conditions and what not, and everybody asking hypothetical what ifs, and others arguing back and forth about whether or not to direct the vig, and everyone offering up their thoughts on who should be vigged.

Sounds like exactly what you guys need is someone like me clearing things up and suggesting what to do. Someone

experienced

. You do think I'm experienced, right? Because I have a lot of posts? Thats why you expected more out of me? (lets see who can pick out the sarcasm in this last paragraph and discern the point I'm actually trying to make...)

First thought: If someone claims watcher or vig, and is lying, for gods sake DO NOT COUNTERCLAIM, REAL VIG OR WATCHER. The town will work on a way for them to confirm. CC'ing - especially for the vig - is a terrible, terrible idea. Don't do it.

Second thought: I agree n1 the watcher should watch whoever we sic the vig on. I strongly disagree it should be kise - especially since it seems to mostly be for his jokey fakeclaim in an open. There is no incentive for mimes to post, because the usual tool of lynch all lurkers doesn't apply here. The town should pick a non-contributor to be vigged, because vigging is our only good tool to kill lurkers.

Third thought: we have a decent chance of having the scum kill the mimes. Just putting that out there.

Unrelated thought: kise, the fakeclaim was funny and all, but seriously, vote.

And here we have hito being hypocritical. Playing what-should-the-vig-(and-watcher)-do and providing IIoA.

and again in 225

and other places, but I'm not going to bother linking them all.

lulz @232 through 235. And scorpion really does have to lighten up. Its only a game afterall.

Or maybe I actually didn't know that you can't vote no lynch, and I simply wanted to gouge people's interest in the idea before I help support it?

Weren't you the one saying something about ignorance being bad or something like that earlier in the game?

he doesn't mind having a little scummyscumjuice drip on him

This sounds...

dirty

sigged

Why am I not dead yet
Vig Kise
Lynch me
Get this over with plz.

Why are people so keen on lynching someone who appears to want to be lynched? Does this not scream mime to anyone? Whether XScorpion is mafia or mime I think the possibility of him being mime could make him a possible vig target for tonight. I'm also not entirely convinced that Kise is a mime but he also looks like a good vig target.

looker is obvscum.
I'm hoping that by dying today, the other scum will be revealed to the surviving town. So by all means, go ahead and hammer.

How exactly would your death as VT help kill scum better than trying to lynch properly today? Also why are you trying to get killed as VT in a game where we have mimes who have to be lynched to win?

What is your opinion of Dry-Fit?

Looking over his posts it doesn't look like he has really done anything scummy but I don't have a very good read on him because he hasn't done much yet.

Lets see.. I am getting town vibes from xRECKONERx and hitogoroshi. I'm getting mixed vibes from Kise, XScorpion, and looker.

Still not done analyzing everything yet though..

No... mime-scorpion would have selfhammered when he thought he was at L-1. I think he's scum playing AtE to try to make us think he's town.

caught up now.

[Looker]

I can't confirm whether or not he actually knew he was at L-1. He could've thought he was fooling me; he could've thought I couldn't count. But, then again, not making a case based on the competence of another player...

[xofelf]

V/LA til tomorrow evening. I am moving back into my apartment

Noted. -The mod.

[hitogoroshi]

Rhinox: I'm certainly not saying it's scummy to talk about the set-up, only that in your case it seems to be concealing everything else. In particular, I had a hell of a time when looking through your ISO trying to figure out when and why kise went from obv-scum to town for you. I'll admit, though, that I have not done any meta reading of you and so perhaps I was speaking more out of the experience of me finding it hard to find your opinions and suspecting it was deliberate. That, and your lax 'he's been scummy sure let's wagon' slide on the scorpion wagon couldn't help but set me off.

Regardless, while I'm curious what your town read of kise thinks about this post:

Just bus me. The jig is up.

there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to people not offering their thoughts.

unvote, vote: Gerty

(For the record - I'll vote scorpion if we get close to deadline, but there's been a lot of stuff happening that quite a few people haven't commented on. In particular, I don't want to end D1 until xofelf comes back from her V/LA and offers her views on the proceedings.)

To be honest, though, scorpions flailing seems to be equally explainable as frustrated townie or scum mimicking the same. (I'll feel terrible if I'm wrong about this, but I don't think he's a mime.) There are quite a few people who haven't posted much that I'd feel equally comfortable lynching at this point. The only town reads I have with any strength at this point are flinter and looker. While this D1 quickly risks getting too long, it's been disproportionately swelled by a few people and I'm not too comfortable taking so many basicially null reads into D2.

[VP Baltar]

bump