OhGodMyLife wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:Oh, sure it has an impact; i was just saying that OGML's rule ("miller MUST claim start of day 1, or NEVER CLAIM AT ALL!!!11!") is foolish, since as far as preventing a wasted cop investigaton goes, it dosn't matter when during day 1 the miller claims.
But in terms of believability, it does matter.
You keep saying that, but you keep not being able to explain why there's anything wrong with me, as a miller, not claiming right at the start of the day.
And in terms of not disrupting all the other ongoing discussion, it matters quite a bit.
...unless you're trying to claim I claimed miller in order to "disrupt other ongoing discussion"? Is that seriously the theory you're going with here, OGML?
Yosarian2 wrote:Incog, sorry if I misrepresneted you there
Lets translate: "Incog, sorry I mistakenly thought you had taken up a position I could exploit."
Yosarian2 wrote:Incognito, I'd be interested to hear your opinion about that, since I know you have had a lot of experence with her meta as well.
Lets translate: "Incog, now that we're on the subject, if you would go ahead and take up this position I can exploit, it will bolster my standing quite a bit."
Let's translate. OGML: "Hey, I bet I can be emotionally manipulative and get more people to vote Yos here even though my arguments have no validity."
If I suspect Ether of being scum, then I certanly want to know what other people think about her, because that's a huge source of information for later. And that's especally true of someone like Incognito, because he knows Ether quite well and thus I would expect him to have a tighter read on her.
Yosarian2 wrote: Note she dosn't vote me specifically for the miller claim,
she dosn't even mention it
You really aren't paying very close attention to what you're doing. Seems like concocting a tractable case against Ether to counter the wagon on you was more important than a little detail like veracity.
...so, now you're going to just repeat things other people have already said?
She did not mention my miller claim. She did not, at any point, say anything like "Because Yos claimed miller..." or anything like that. She made a vauge reference to "Yos's claim being bad", but she never actually mentioned what my claim was or why. THIS IS SCUMMY; it implies, to me, that she dosn't want to make a huge deal about the details of my claim, because she wants to lynch me but knows I'm telling the truth.
Yosarian2 wrote:When Ether's town, she can usually spot town-Yos a mile away
So, to distill your whole argument here, Ether doesn't think you are town, and therefore she is not town... hey, I'm pretty sure thats a textbook definition of Oh My God You Suck (for voting me).
Hey, I'm pretty sure you're completly wrong.
If Ether, as town, has correctly and confidently read me, as town, in the last several games we've played together when we were both town, the fact that she isn't doing so now is unusual, and perhaps a red flag.
Yosarian2 wrote:What do you think, Incog?
Third time in one post you're appealing to Incog's authority on the matter of Ether. I'm gonna need to keep reading to see if he took the bait on this one, or if he realized that Yos was trying to play him.
Again, I've got good reason for asking Incog about Ether here, and I'm rather confused why you don't understand that.
Yosarian2 wrote:Xdaamno: 35-40% or so. A little more likely then random to be scum, based on some early game vibes; nothing solid.
Suppose you are a not a miller. How would Xdaamno claiming miller at this point affect your opinion of his likelihood of being scum? Might you, perhaps, "hate the claim?" Because your description of why you are suspicious of X is remarkably similar to what Ether wrote about you, plus the "I hate the claim" which you blatantly ignored in writing up a case against her.
Oh, a milller claim never HELPS, nor would I expect it to. Which is clearly not the same as what Ether did.
Why are you trying so hard to defend Ether here, OGML?
Yosarian2 wrote:(shrug) Well, we're only 10 pages into day 1
Somebody needs to make a name for the scumtell of "Appealing to Page Number"
...
Someone needs to make a scumtell out of "quoting shit completly out of context."
Oh wait, that already IS a scumtell. Right.
Yosarian2 wrote: Still, the tone of your posts, the agressivness, the...well, the taking advantage of a sudden oppertunity, I suppose, are about what I would normally expect from you as scum.
You mean the sudden opportunity of your random ass miller claim in the midst of other discussions well into day one? Why is my aggressive reaction to it more telling than camn or charter, who don't even seem to be making a blip on your scumdar? Why are all of your arguments so far against both me and Ether based 99% on meta, and your argument against X is purely gut?
Because it is. My suspicions of you and Ether are based on meta, my suspicions of Xdaamno are based partly on gut and partly on the way he's avoided making any negitive comments on anyone all game, and my suspicions of Dizzy are based mostly on the tone of her posts and on some minor scumtells. I don't expect to be right about all of those suspicions, that's not how it works, but I've got good reasons for all of them.
Yos: Did you get a chance to explore any of the games I linked where I'm scum on the forum? Did they give you any new impression of how I play as scum?
Yeah, I read through them. Nothing really conclusive; you generally weren't bandwagon leaders in them, for the most part, but nothing like this kind of situation really came up.
skitzer wrote:OGML in Post 177: Am I correct in saying that you thought of this because camn's post pertained to scum dropping the atom bomb-thingies? I can agree here.
No, that had very little to do with it. Though it was certainly a brazen thing for Yos to quote while claiming miller.
Well, yeah. What the hell, right?
Yosarian2 wrote:Translation to reality: Yos analyzes the two main issues going on in thread at the point, decides neither argument is convincing and explains that pretty clearly, so Yos scumhunts elsewhere.
Voting X based on a gut read of one single post is a far cry from scumhunting.
...are you for real? On page 2 of the game, you expect me to have a stronger case then that? Most of the people in the game had only made one post so far, and of those who had been more active, none of them really looked especally scummy to me at the time, as I explained in that post.
Yosarian2 wrote:Well, yeah. I still don't really get how anyone would assume I would make a whole big post with analysis and stuff and then end it with a random vote...
Perhaps it was assumed to be random because you gave no real indication it was otherwise?
(shrug) Whatever.
Yosarian2 wrote:Anyway, reading the first 2 pages of the game, Xdaamno's single post *was* scummier then the net contrabutions of any other single player. Do you disagree?
Yes.
Why?
Yosarian2 wrote:Right, right, jokes are scummy, I forgot.
In the joking post you misquoted just above, I made a joke about how I was going to vote for Patrick except I couldn't because he ozzed pro-town-ness. I then had to actually explain that, yes, this was a joke, based on the fact Patrick always looks pro-town to me. Now you're attacking me for having to explain my joke? Sheesh.
By the way, "my gut usually gives me a pro-town read on Patrick" does NOT mean "I won't be able to figure out Patrick's alignment or get a real read on him", by ANY streach of the imagination.
But the joke WAS made in lieu of making any statement one way or the other about Patrick's alignment at that time, so it did serve the function of letting you continue to ignore him.
Most people hadn't posted anything about Patrick at all. I mentioned that his posts seemed generally pro-town, and jokingly mentioned that Patrick usually does look pro-town. How can you say that *I* was ignoring Patrick?
Besides, Patrick *is* looking pro-town in his posts so far; any case against me where you attack me by trying to link me to him is bupkis unless you can actually make a case against him.
Yosarian2 wrote:Complete and total lie, since I actually said that they both looked town, which is the exact opposite of what you're claiming I did. We've moved waaayy beyond simple misrepresentation here...
You said they were both pro-town but at the same time asked pointed questions that seemed to deepen the argument going on while you sat back and observed.
Soooo...asking "pointed questions" is a scum tell now?
Yosarian2 wrote:Lol. Mock me if you want, but if you have an actual problem with my post, you're going to have to say what part of it you disagree with.
OK. Why was it that up that point, your vote had not moved from Xdaamno?
Because, up until the point when you and Ether voted me, Xdaamno seemed the scummiest person in the game. He's still on the list, mind you.
Yosarian2 wrote:Anyway, (aside from your total lack of a case on me, other then your weak mafia-theory "millers shouldn't do what Yos just did even though I apparently can't explain why not" stuff) I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that Patrick is scum here. His posts look pretty town to me.
Again, I'm finding that ever since it was brought up and Ether said it was too obvious, Yos2 and Patrick have become even more blatant.
Dude, this is perhaps the dumbest argumet you have. "Yos thinks patrick is probably town, so they MUST be scum together!"
Yosarian2 wrote:OhGodMyLife wrote:I find it really unlikely that there's actually a miller in this game.
Considering how many games i have (and you have) seen lately with a miller, I'm not sure why you would say that, OGML...
Yosarian2 wrote:Anyway, now that the game's over, I can ask this question:
OGML, why is your reaction to a miller claim in this game so different then it was in Mafia 88
viewtopic.php?t=9775&start=1825? You were a pro-town vig in the game; Der Hammer claimed miller day 1, and you never attacked him, never voted him, never questioned him at all, and never used your vig kill on him all game. So why do you have this bizzare "MUST LYNCH ALL CLAIMED MILLERS" and "THERE ARE NO MILLERS" attitude in this game?
You are hiding behind the existence of a miller in another game now, and an apparent swing in the sitewide meta towards putting more millers in games. I believed the miller claim precisely because I
was
the vig. I think the presence of a vig made the claim more likely to be true. He also claimed under duress, and I don't think a day one miller claim under duress is a likely scum move. Much more likely would be say, claiming doctor, because then you either get cced and out the doctor, or coast on a doctor claim. Your claim is NOTHING like the claim in 88, and trying to equate the two is disingenuous.
I'm not trying to "hide" behind anything. I'm asking you a question. Millers are bloody everywhere in the forum now. The right play for a miller seems to be to claim day 1; it was true in mafia 88, and it is true here. And your comment about "duress" is backwards; the best time for a miller to claim miller is when he is *NOT* under suspicion, because that's far more likely to be a desperate scum gambit.
So, why are you so focused on lynching me for acting in what clearly seems to be a pro-town way? And why are you so convinced that there can't be a miller in this game, when, well when there is, and when miller is a role that seems incredibly common these days anyway? Hell, I wouldn't claim miller as scum just because I'd probably get counterclaimed by a real miller, they're in so many games these days.
Your actions this game do not make any sense, OGML, at alll; I can't imagine why a pro-town OGML would act the way you have, and in fact I have seen a pro-town OGML act in a very different way then you have.
Let's see...he has a whole bunch of random quotes where he tries to lynch all kinds of players together because they're either attacking each other, or not attacking each other, or talking about each other, or because I responded to something Patrick says, or whatever...more paranoid BS. He basically just quotes any post made by anyone on his "suspect list" that either responds to, or references, or attacks, or defends, or mentions, or thinks about anyone else on his "suspect list", and tries to claim that it's all proof that everyone on that list is connected. Such BS...
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
