US Election 08 Mafia(Someone has won, has America lost?)

[Yosarian2]

That wasn't my exact words, but yeah, something like that. We've got to get a wagon on someone going before deadline sneaks up on us, and I don't have any better leads at the moment, so I'm fine with a max wagon.

[Yaw]

Which is a good point in itself.

Mod: Can we have an extension on the deadline to compensate for site downtime?

[magnus_orion]

Oh Noes!!! MY POST WENT BOOM!

Lets try again.
Lets see here.

Basically the important bit was
Short version because I like paraphrasing:
max: durr... I think there might be two mafia factions
others: hmmm!? (fos and such go here)
Yaw: well it is something to keep in mind (goes to push zwet wagon)
others: yeah, zwet is suspicious! (fos and votes go here)

vote: max
fos: yaw

Presuming two mafia factions = scummy.
Yaw quickly changes the subject

@volkan (Young Edgeworth! obvscum! jk): dispite what others have said, I dislike your scum reader thing. I like posting and post frequently. Your method punishes those who post more (minor scumtells build up quickly) and rewards those who lurk (less scumtells to build up).

Oh yeah, and Hello everyone.

[magnus_orion]

double post: just like last time
I am pro nat-vigging
Unless there is a reason we shouldn't/can't

[Kairyuu]

I"M ALIVE!!! Not really.

Alright. I tried to post monday like I said I would, but as soon as I finished a post for one of my other games, the site went down, so there ya go.

@Mod: Also, if there is any way I could have a temp replacement (cuz I doubt you'd let me be V/LA for 2 weeks while I send my laptop in for repairs) I would really appreciate it. If the replacement has to be permanent, then I guess it can't be helped, but I'd like to stick around.

[Badguy]

I actualy buy the roleclaim made by zwetschenwasser. If he had said Barack Obama or another big name in the election, I would be still for his lynching but Wolf Blitzer is believable and so is his reason for why he is in the game.

Why would a big name be less believable?

(And where is your avatar from? I

know

I have seen it somewhere before, and it's bugging me like crazy trying to work out where)

My thought process was that scum would use a bigger election name instead of thinking up a more indirect person that influenced the election.

(Vi already answered that my avatar is Ultros from FFVI.)

[EmpTyger]

Yos:
Any *other* leads, or any *better* leads?

---

Vi:

Where did zwet not read the topic?

Not answering posts aimed directly at him would seem to indicate this.

Or it could indicate him being mafia. Why would you not only assume that he has a legitimate explanation, but publicly assign him it?

Weren’t you the one arguing that Natirasha’s behavior wasn’t suspicious? (At least, until he accused you?)

Yes. After reading your argument against me, I performed a complex psychological maneuver commonly called "changing my mind".

If you felt you were wrong, any reason you didn’t feel any reason to say so or otherwise indicate it? Right now it seems like you’re pulling this out of nowhere because it happens to give you an alibi.

Are you particularly suspicious of me?

Yes.

---

Nikelaos:
Still would like to know you think suspicious, but also, what specifically did Badguy do to seem protown to you?

---

Magnus:
Was there anything in your lost post regarding anyone else? Don't worry about being comprehensive, just quickly go through the playerlist and 1-sentence would be fine.

[magnus_orion]

No, except you (emptyger) look particularly depseprate every time to get the fastest lynch LOL.

[charter]

I'm on vacation, I get back sat and I can read up, sorry.

[magnus_orion]

BTW I misread the question. That wasn't originally in my post, I just wanted to say it.

[Stephen Colbert]

Which is a good point in itself.

Mod: Can we have an extension on the deadline to compensate for site downtime?

Absolutely. I was just going to get to that, but it's been pretty crazy for me the past day or two while the site was down. I'll check on prods tomorrow, but extend the deadline until the 22nd.

@Mod: Also, if there is any way I could have a temp replacement (cuz I doubt you'd let me be V/LA for 2 weeks while I send my laptop in for repairs) I would really appreciate it. If the replacement has to be permanent, then I guess it can't be helped, but I'd like to stick around.

I'll do my best, but it's hard to find temp replacements.

Vote count soon(I hope)

[magnus_orion]

Thanks for the extension Mr. Colbert.


Yaw, answer my riddle
for it is very true
A subject which you fiddled
makes the suspicious one you.

What were your reasons?

[Yaw]

Reasons for?

Yeah, I lost a post in the crash responding to yours. But at the point I was writing it, I realized I had lost track of precisely what Max had said that charter called him on (yes, regarding multiple scum groups, but I forget the exact wording and it does matter), and at that point I may as well just reread everything since I was going to do that anyway.

The most important point, though, was that the comment by Max came while we were in the process of bandwagoning zwet, not before. So holding off on dealing with that issue temporarily was a good idea then. After all, we can only lynch one person at a time.

[vollkan]

@volkan (Young Edgeworth! obvscum! jk): dispite what others have said, I dislike your scum reader thing. I like posting and post frequently. Your method punishes those who post more (minor scumtells build up quickly) and rewards those who lurk (less scumtells to build up).

(If young Edgeworth is obvscum, I hate to think what that makes your deformed Phoenix)

Anyway, my ranking method itself does "punish" frequent posters but I don't.

To explain how that works, I'll refer to a recent game of mine which illustrates it perfectly: Death Note Mafia. I was a pro-town post-restriction giver. Come the final day, I had to choose between two people for the lynch - one who was somewhat scummy and had posted a reasonable amount, and another who had basically lurked the entire game. If I went on my rankings alone, the former would have been my pick. But, factoring in the "uncertainty" (for want of a better term) that lurking creates, I voted for the lurked instead. The lurker was the SK.

Basically, my rankings reflect my view of the scumminess of what people post. However, in deciding who to lynch, I do, when necessary, deviate from the rankings to take account of lurking in order to avoid the precise problem you identify.

My thought process was that scum would use a bigger election name instead of thinking up a more indirect person that influenced the election.

Wouldn't it make much more sense as a scum strategy to claim a more indirect person? Since claiming a big name would very likely risk a counter-claim, whereas claiming a lesser, but still plausible name, would be a much safer bet.

Yaw, answer my riddle
for it is very true
A subject which you fiddled
makes the suspicious one you.

What are you talking about?

[magnus_orion]

i made it rhyme lol. I was asking what yaw's reasons were for changing the subject.
(And my pheonix happens to be from the official art. )

Unfortuneately, Volkan, you lost Death Note Mafia, If I recall. And if you use the system, and then admit that it rewards lurkers, wouldn't that mean you reward lurkers? It is your system, right?

And discussing the name claim in such a way is wifom and only reveals how many steps ahead you think.

[vollkan]

Unfortuneately, Volkan, you lost Death Note Mafia, If I recall.

Yeah, but I was voting for the scumbag at the end. And, anyway, the point of my referring to Death Note Mafia was to show you that I do diverge from the numbers where lurking becomes relevant

And if you use the system, and then admit that it rewards lurkers, wouldn't that mean you reward lurkers? It is your system, right?

As I said in my previous post:
The system rewards lurking. But the system is not the sole basis upon which I make decisions. 9 times out of 10, I will follow the system, but their are exceptions, and Death Note illustrates how I deal with lurking as an exception to the system.

And discussing the name claim in such a way is wifom and only reveals how many steps ahead you think

It's not really wifom. Scum might plausibly claim a big name in the hopes of catching a PR. However, I'd more expect scum to claim a lesser role in the hopes of furthering their own survival.

[Vi]

Or it could indicate him being mafia. Why would you not only assume that he has a legitimate explanation, but publicly assign him it?

"Not reading the topic" is a legitimate explanation to you?
I think zwetschenwasser has been very scummy, but at the same time suspect this is at least partly based on being accustomed to how Mafia is played on another site. I call lynchalicious.

If you felt you were wrong, any reason you didn’t feel any reason to say so or otherwise indicate it? Right now it seems like you’re pulling this out of nowhere because it happens to give you an alibi.

Vi 116.

[Idiotking]

Zwet still seems scummy, but Vi's seemed kinda scummy to me too, mostly because of how adamantly he wanted to pull me out of my safezone. Then again, if he's even a little bit aggressive, of course he'd get angry at a lurker, so I guess that makes sense.

[Nikelaos]

Nikelaos:
Still would like to know you think suspicious, but also, what specifically did Badguy do to seem protown to you?

Badguy wrote:
Finally zwetschenwasser, can you please give me a more detailed reason to why you are voting for Vi? Could you also tell me how a cop would go about leaving us "breadcrumbs" to Nat's innocence if he was to investigate him tonight without getting killed the following night?

Since you completely changed your mind and you now think Vi is pro town, tell me who now this is scum besides Nat.

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Also, my cop posts were mainly intended to misdirect mafia into thinking that I wasn't the cop, and stay alive at least for Night 1. And I was bandwagoning into the vig idea proposed earlier at the same time, to give my opinion a less random vibe. I can only hope you believe me and give me a doc protect, cuz I'm gonna need it if you don't kill me.

What reason did scum have to think you were a cop?

In particular I felt this post to have a town vibe, enough for me to unvote a vote I made based off of a weak argument regarding his nameclaim. His subsequent defense of zwet based on his nameclaim shows that he clearly gives too much weight to names in this game, but it's consistent and I don't find it all that scummy. It could still be, but there isn't enough information for me to accuse him.

As for who I think is suspicious, I don't suspect anyone very strongly right now. Max's assumption of two scum factions is suspicious, but not the most unreasonable thing in the world. I feel charter is town judging by this post:

Doh, I am a fool. Zwet, in your role PM, what kind of election do you want? Don't quote it or do something to get yourself modkilled

He probably asked zwet this to confirm him based off of his own role PM. There are no guarantees, but I think he is town because of this, and thus your attacks on him are a bit suspicious, but in the end they really don't mean too much. Add the consensus regarding zwet (and his claim) and those are my opinions right now.

I don't mind a wagon building on Max too much, but I'm not going to vote for him right now.

[Kairyuu]

Alright. My apologies in advance, since I will try to make the mod's life easier by sticking around. I'll be as active as I can, but I can't promise much activity. Maybe a post per day if I can manage to.

Alright. I'll start with an

unvote

and

vote:Max

for the IIoA earlier (which I didn't have time to comment on when it happened). I still like zwet as scum, but as has been mentioned already, lynching a claimed cop D1 is a horrendous play.

[Yaw]

Zwet still seems scummy, but Vi's seemed kinda scummy to me too, mostly because of how adamantly he wanted to pull me out of my safezone. Then again, if he's even a little bit aggressive, of course he'd get angry at a lurker, so I guess that makes sense.

Explain. What do you mean by "safezone"? If by "safezone", you mean "not posting", then why do you feel you should be allowed to slide by?

[Idiotking]

Safezone as in not posting and merely observing, yes. I felt I needed to acclimatize myself with the players before I said something that made that could be seen as a scumtell, since those obviously pop up everywhere here.

But that's basically lurking, which is why I said it'd be understandable if he were a townie and went after me for doing so.

[magnus_orion]

The most important point, though, was that the comment by Max came while we were in the process of bandwagoning zwet, not before. So holding off on dealing with that issue temporarily was a good idea then. After all, we can only lynch one person at a time.

Yaw, are you saying here that you were more concerned with the momentum of the lynch then with investigating a possibly scummy individual?!

[Vi]

Zwet still seems scummy, but Vi's seemed kinda scummy to me too, mostly because of how adamantly he wanted to pull me out of my safezone. Then again, if he's even a little bit aggressive, of course he'd get angry at a lurker, so I guess that makes sense.

How is pulling you out of your comfort zone

scummy

; that is, more likely to indicate that I am scum?

[Idiotking]

It's not. What bothers me is that you were as determined as you were about it. Hence why I notice aggressiveness from you.