[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Mr. Flay]

Why do the Mimes investigate as Innocent? Wouldn't that hinder their chances of getting lynched?

What would making them both Roleblockers do to the balance? It kinda fits with the "Mimes are so *(^%^$*& annoying" flavor of the game...

[Adel]

Why do the Mimes investigate as Innocent? Wouldn't that hinder their chances of getting lynched?

What would making them both Roleblockers do to the balance? It kinda fits with the "Mimes are so *(^%^$*& annoying" flavor of the game...

I think RB is much better than NK.

The mimes investigate as innocent so that the cops will not lose for correct play (lynching a person they have a guilty on).

[farside22]

reading the mime game I agree with shaft. I think it needs a few more tweaks for it to be balanced.

Any suggestions?

With all the NK the mimes will almost always lose. One may be lynched day 1 but the other not only has to survive the night but hoped to be lynched the next day.
A RB mime would be a nice touch. Not sure what else to think I just feel it' missing something.

[Adel]

ok let me try this again....

Paris Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
1 RB Mime
1 Jailkeeper Mime
2 Vigs
2 Cops
4 Townies

Day start.

Mimes investigate as "Innocent". If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides. If either mime is still alive after the death of the last mafia goon, the mimes lose.

[Kinetic]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

Maybe if you drop a cop it would be better if you kept them as innocent...

[shaft.ed]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

I endorse this product and or service.

I also think giving the mimes abilities needlessly complicates things. Don't ask me when that actually started to matter to me however

[farside22]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

I endorse this product and or service.

I also think giving the mimes abilities needlessly complicates things. Don't ask me when that actually started to matter to me however

The problem is the mimes have to deal with 2 vigs and a mafia hit. Without something to protect themselves what else can they do?
I agree with Kinetic on this. I really keep thinking about this game and all I think is if I signed up I hope not to be a mime.

[shaft.ed]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

I endorse this product and or service.

I also think giving the mimes abilities needlessly complicates things. Don't ask me when that actually started to matter to me however

The problem is the mimes have to deal with 2 vigs and a mafia hit. Without something to protect themselves what else can they do?
I agree with Kinetic on this. I really keep thinking about this game and all I think is if I signed up I hope not to be a mime.

Drop a Vig

[Kinetic]

Three different versions that I believe are more balanced:

Ver1.

(14 Player)
1 Godfather
2 Goon
2 Mime (Innocent)
1 Vig
1 Cop
7 Townies

Ver2.

(14 Player)
3 Mafia
2 Mime (Guilty)
1 2-Shot Vig
2 Cops (Mod-Sane)
6 Townies

Ver 3.
(14 Player)
1 Godfather
2 Goon
1 RB Mime (Innocent)
1 Guilty Mime
2 1-Shot Vigs
2 Cop
1 Miller
4 Townie

If you're going to have the Mimes investigate innocent and have 2 cops, you also need to throw in at least one Godfather, and at least one RB mime.

[Adel]

I've been working under the assumption that any decent player can get herself lynched pretty easily.

I am certain that mimes should either investigate as

guilty

innocent

, or not have a win condition that is mutually exclusive with the town's.

As for the mime role sucking because it would be hard to win, the fun should come from being able to play with a completely opposite objective from other games.

The reason I was sticking with the vigs is that I thought it was important for the town to take out the mimes. On second thought, I think that being able to win simply by eliminating the mafia players should be enough for the town, So the game would end either ^1.when both mimes have been lynched (mime win), or ^2.once all of the mafia are dead (town win), or ^3. when only mafia players are left alive (mafia win).

That makes it a much simpler game, which looks more elegant to me.

...

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Lovers (Paris is the city of love, after all)
1 Mafia Goon
2 Mimes
2 Watchers (Tourists)
4 Townies

Day start.

Mimes investigate as "Innocent". If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides. If either mime is still alive after the death of the last mafia goon, the mimes lose.

[Kinetic]

I've been working under the assumption that any decent player can get herself lynched pretty easily.

I am certain that mimes should either investigate as guilty, or not have a win condition that is mutually exclusive with the town.

As for the mime role sucking because it would be hard to win, the fun should come from being able to play with a completely opposite objective from other games.

The reason I was sticking with the vigs is that I thought it was important for the town to take out the mimes. On second thought, I think that being able to win simply from eliminating the mafia players should be enough for the town, So the game would end either ^1.when both mimes have been lynched (mime win), or ^2.once all of the mafia are dead (town win), or ^3. when only mafia players are left alive (mafia win).

That makes it a much simpler game, which looks more elegant to me.

...

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Lovers (Paris is the city of love, after all)
1 Mafia Goon
2 Mimes
2 Watchers (Tourists)
4 Townies

Day start.

Mimes investigate as "Innocent". If both Mimes die by lynching, both the mafia and the town lose. If a Mime is killed by NK the other one suicides. If either mime is still alive after the death of the last mafia goon, the mimes lose.

Much better imo. Since there is no "cop" there is no need for what the mimes investigate as. Only three roles per night will be targeting, the two watchers and one of the three mafia so the watchers have a 50% chance of seeing a watcher or a scum bag.

I think that it is much harder to get yourself killed when the town KNOWS someones win condition is just that. Its even harder once one of them is killed, the town will be very gun shy.

The main issue I was seeing with the other game was the town giving up lynching and just No-lynching and hoping for the vigs or mafia to kill a mime before starting to lynch again.

I place Kinetic's Seal of Approval on this new set up.

[Adel]

Thanks, but I'm having second thoughts. I forgot that I wanted more killing roles to speed up the game. I'm worried about it turning into a lurkerfest thanks to the mimes.

[Elephant Hell]

What about adding one Vig (enables the town to hunt for the Mimes without making it too hard for the Mimes to win), one Doc and turn the Lovers into regular Mafiosi (now that they don't have full control over nightkills it would be harder for them if they have the Lovers)? The Doc might add a new element to the game though, where the Mimes are trying to get protection, which would make things more complicated.

In any case, the Mafia wouldn't want the Mimes to win either so they would also be looking for the Mimes.



Reposting this:

Uranium-238

2 Mafiosi

or

2 Werewolves
2 Doctors
2 Herbalists
3 Townies

Day start.
Different types of protection cancel each other out on the same target. In other words, if a Doctor and Herbalist target the same player, who is also killed, the protection won't work. If 2 Doctors and a Herbalist target the same player, who is also killed by the Mafia, the protection will work.
The mafia group is referred to as 'scum' rather than by name until the end of the game (except in their own role PMs).

[Kinetic]

Thanks, but I'm having second thoughts. I forgot that I wanted more killing roles to speed up the game. I'm worried about it turning into a lurkerfest thanks to the mimes.

Possible. I think one vig wouldn't kill the set up, maybe 2-shot just to make him think about it.

If you throw more than one though it might make the game too swingy.

If you do add the vig, making the two mafia lovers would be a disadvantage, maybe unbalancing... Maybe make the non lover a mafia role blocker?

[shaft.ed]

Thanks, but I'm having second thoughts. I forgot that I wanted more killing roles to speed up the game. I'm worried about it turning into a lurkerfest thanks to the mimes.

Which is why Jesters are evil.

Smaller game fewer scum, three killing factions (maf/mime/vig) should be fun.

2 mafia
2 mimes (one a Doc)
1 compulsive vig
1 cop (mimes guilty, keeps the vig from claiming as he can pick off mafia and mimes at night)
1 Miller
5 Townies

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, one vig, no cop, seems much more balanced to me. As Kinetic says, that makes the whole 'what do they investigate as' thing irrelevant.

I'm not sure the Mafia should have internal Lovers, though. What about:
2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

..or 2 Watchers and 3 Mafiosos.

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, one vig, no cop, seems much more balanced to me. As Kinetic says, that makes the whole 'what do they investigate as' thing irrelevant.

I'm not sure the Mafia should have internal Lovers, though. What about:
2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

..or 2 Watchers and 3 Mafiosos.

I endorse the addition of a watcher instead of a cop.

[Kinetic]

Yeah, one vig, no cop, seems much more balanced to me. As Kinetic says, that makes the whole 'what do they investigate as' thing irrelevant.

I'm not sure the Mafia should have internal Lovers, though. What about:
2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

This is solid. Day Start.

nominate

.

[Kinetic]

Yeah, one vig, no cop, seems much more balanced to me. As Kinetic says, that makes the whole 'what do they investigate as' thing irrelevant.

I'm not sure the Mafia should have internal Lovers, though. What about:
2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

This is solid. Day Start.

nominate

.

One thing I was just thinking, remove the NK from the mimes. Its useless in their hands, maybe give them a RB between the two instead of a NK (They make a box around a target that the target can't escape. )

[Mr. Flay]

A joint RB sounds fine; I was using the recent definition of Mimes as Paired Jesters rather than 'Scum Faction with a NK', so no NK was assumed, sorry I should have made that explicit.

[Kinetic]

Yea, I was too, then I remembered they had a NK originally and thought it would be prudent to make sure the issue was addressed. Honestly giving them a NK is almost against their role's WC. I know I'd never use it.

[popsofctown]

nominate

Mr. Flay's Paris mafia with or without joint roleblock

[Adel]

nominate

Mr. Flay's Paris mafia with or without joint roleblock

ditto (I won't join it from the beginning, but it is likely that I will eventually end up replacing some player that needs replacing)

[farside22]

I think the RB for the mimes would be more balanced.

[Mr. Flay]

To be clear, it's NOT my setup; Adel should still get full credit for it, but I'll

second

it (with the Mimes' joint RB) to help get it on the roster.

I'm curious to see what happens with this setup, and no longer think it's brokenated.