Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[zMuffinMan]

I promised myself I'd read D1 again after we lynched CR. So. brb

[hiplop]

lmao game is in the bag now I think. WL power is pretty damn OP

[Blackberry]

WL-Confirmed:

Muffin
hiplop
Nikanor

BB-confirmed:

BB

Muffin again

Vezok - let's hope he wasn't investigation immune/I wasn't redirected or anything >_<

Remaining:

Tans
Kast
Toasty
Andrius

...

Thinking about things. Now that Oversoul has flipped NON-TRACKER/WATCHER, I'm more inclined to go after a roleblocker (Toasty/Andrius). What did yall think of my theory they're both scum, only one of which is a roleblocker, and they've both been claiming the roleblocking shenanigan?

...

I have to reread to see if Oversoul confessed what his action was N3 and if he was really telling the truth about Toasty not going anywhere X_x.

[Blackberry]

I *personally* think Tans claim is really town.

Andrius
Kast
Toasty

All seem scummy to me. What do you think of ALL THREE of them being scum?

[Blackberry]

I kind of just thought of something... whoever did the Vanilliaizing was probably not scum... If the Vanilliazer was MAFIA and he/she was drill sergeanted, they would do MULTIPLE KILLS. Killing > Vanilliaizing. Thus, I think the Vanilliaizer was TOWN (i.e., Nikanor).

I don't know, just a theory. XD

[zMuffinMan]

@hiplop + nikanor

Do you want to claim and co-ordinate night actions?

----

Anyway, I sorta got a little bit into re-reading D1.

Spoiler: to be examined when I can be bothered

ooba (8) - WeyounsLastClone, Candle Jack, nopointinactingup, Toogeloo, Andrius, Apokalyptika, vezokpiraka, Ghostwriter
Toogeloo (4) - Nikanor, Lady Lambdadelta, zMuffinMan, Friend
Andrius (4) - mastin2, Mr. Subliminal, inHimshallibe, Oversoul
vezokpiraka (2) - ooba, hiplop
nopointinactingup (1)- ToastyToast
WLC (1) - tanstalas

Not Voting (6) - FrozenMirror, Kast, marco1610, kondi2424

--------------------------

^VC prior to lolmasondaycopguilty - no scum on toog or Andrius? (for the purposes of VCA, Oversoul counts as town because he isn't mafia) scum pileup on ooba quite possibly because Andrius and Toog are the only other wagons. Why isn't any mafia jumping on Andrius?

Also, Apok's ISO is a goldmine, considering most of the players he talked about are still alive. His interactions with vezok + Toast don't look like scum-on-scum interaction. Quite possible scum with Andrius, though.

Also Andrius's post have soooooooooo much IIoA in them and so little interaction with flipped mafia - virtually none at all.

(I have mild town reads on most of the players left alive. BB is like one of the only players I don't have a town read on, apart from Andrius).

[Blackberry]

@Muffin

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you also didn't have a town read on WLC or Mr. S ... Yet apparently you have a town read on Tans & Nikanor.

I think your issue is you are going 'they haven't done anything I think is suspect/weird, thus they are town.' When the true issue is 'they haven't done ANYTHING.' and I don't think you're taking that into consideration.

Andrius, myself, Mr. S, all people who post a lot.

Just pointing out how your scumdar works and why it is majorly flawed.

[Blackberry]

I'm against hiplop & Nikanor claiming at this point.

You could all choose a 'hypothetical' target (or 2) that you will choose from, under the assumption you all have some sort of role that will be helpful if targetting anti-town (i.e., roleblocking, tracking, investigation, vigging, etc., etc.). If you do not have such a role, then you can use it on anyone, but claim a hypothetical target anyways or something.

[zMuffinMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you also didn't have a town read on WLC or Mr. S ...

I did have a town read on WLC. I said he was town over and over. I tried pretty hard to stop his lynch.

Subliminal I was less sure about, but that was mostly due to the fact that I didn't know he was a WL and my N1 action on him failed (most probably because he commuted) and this made me suspicious of some sort of action immunity at work or something. Turns out, it was action immunity, so...

Yet apparently you have a town read on Tans & Nikanor.

I've been calling

all

WLs town, all game. I've explained this several times, actually. So yeah, I am like 99.9999999% sure Nikanor actually is a WL and town. As for tans, some things he said in the early stages of the game made me think he was town. Also don't really see tans-scum confidently outing the fact he's Larfleeze. Also don't see tans-scum making this big a deal out of the whole vanillisation thing.

You have absolutely no idea how my 'scumdar' works if you think I'm suspicious of you because of the quantity of posts... It's more the fact that I haven't seen anything from you that makes me think you're town. I don't understand your thought processes in this game, and quite frankly, if Nikanor tells me that he targeted IHSIB N2, I'm instantly lynching you, no questions asked.

[zMuffinMan]

If the answer I get from Le Mod is what I want it to be, I don't need to claim my action anyway. Pretty sure there's nothing scum can do to prevent it going through tonight. I just have to target the right player.

[Blackberry]

I don't understand your thought processes in this game, and quite frankly, if Nikanor tells me that he targeted IHSIB N2, I'm instantly lynching you, no questions asked.

On the reverse side, if Nikanor comes in and said he did no such thing then you admit it was a gambit?

[zMuffinMan]

A 'gambit' like that doesn't make you town, so yeah, it would obviously have been a gambit, but a gambit that doesn't tell me much about your alignment, except that you were willing to pull some dumb fucking gambit in an attempt to lynch a WL.

Going back to what I was saying,

I don't understand your thought processes in this game

.

[zMuffinMan]

Suppose you had successfully pulled off that gambit. Do you realise how fucking screwed town would be if you're actually town? We

might

have been able to get a Ludi lynch still in the second half of the day, but that "gambit" would have thrown a major wrench in the works.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, and ftr, I've called every single lynch this game correctly. Every. Single. One. My voting history is this: Toogeloo, Apok, Ghostwriter, Ludi, Ludi, Ludi. Yeah, I've literally only voted for scum this game. Funny that. My 'scumdar' doesn't seem all too flawed, really.

[Blackberry]

I've said multiple, multiple times that I don't think Nikanor is acting like town. His playstyle doesn't make sense. It made no sense for him to go from saying 'This is my favorite game' to a sudden loss of enthusiasm and lurking/sitting-back and not responding at all. That is why I was willing to get him lynched because I felt confident that he was CR.

...

Also, I LOL @ Ludi for trying to recruit me when you know the mafia is going to kill me soon anyways.

...

When I play mafia as town, I don't think I consider myself having a THOUGHT PROCESS. I have thought processes. I make theories, make assumptions off those theories to see if they fit, then go from there. If a theory/assumption is proven incorrect, I rethink the situation and develop a new thought process.

...

FTR

, are you saying right now that you think I'm scum and want to lynch me?

[Kast]

Since mod didn't count it:
VOTE: Andy

We're lynching Andy today. This time town's not going to screw around again with an obv-lynch-win right in front of us. It's kinda pathetic that we needed OS to essentially self hammer for that.

@Muffin-
If you've got an ability to stop multiple players/the entire scum team, then great. If you can hit three players, go ahead and block me, Tans, and Nik since whoever the power stealer is, it's almost definitely one of us three.

Btw, if any of the WLs have gained an anti-cult power (e.g. something similar to Subliminal's "cure black recruits") let us know since that could mean we have 1 recruit floating around.

@Blackberry-
And you *personally* thought that Ludi MUST be "doctor" and OS couldn't be his backup. Guess your scumdar was majorly flawed.

With OS flipped cult JoAT and Ludi flipped NON-DOC, it pretty much clears Toast's JK as our effective protection role (quite possibly combined with 1+ BPs, 1+ commuters). As stated from before Ludi's flip, this game DIDN'T need a doc role. There could potentially be a hider or bodyguard role...but doc really didn't fit. Also, with OS's fake Track/Watch claim, town investigation roles make more sense (Regular Cult-Cop, Mafia-Cop, and Tracker, with 1x Watcher mason). Hider as potential weak-cop/self protection ability could have fit, but a full out Tracker/Watcher was dubious.

Also, in the event that drill sergeant was a super motivator (multishot), I seriously doubt it would allow scum to 3x nightkill (or cult to 3x recruiting), and likely would be limited to a player's personal abilities rather than factional things (ie. this would likely work along the same lines as Tans claimed ability thief).

@Other Thoughts-
In terms of night actions, it seems unlikely that Tans would simply ability thief Andy on N1 if he were capable of vanillizing. Here I'd go with Muffin's analysis of Nik's reaction to the WL PM; does Nik's reaction make it at all plausible that he could be a scum WL (ie. Sinestro)? Because despite Tans being an idiot, the claimed night actions fit best with Nik as vanillizer and Tans just being an idiot.

[Kast]

Dang, you guys posted a lot while I was writing up my post. Morning people...

[Blackberry]

I didn't say my scumdar was perfect, I was just annoyed Muffin still thinks I'm a top scum suspect when I think it's pretty obvious by how open and obnoxious I am that I am not sucm. I have no caution whatsoever in my posts, and scum's number one concern is caution.



...

OMG

I am mafia and due to another mafia member who I wanted to just out it but they're too dumb we KNOW Nikanor is cult leader.

I just gave the town CR and two mafia on a platter

GG

wut?

I just want to point out. The moment I saw this on my iPhone it raised a flag (I was on my iPhone all yesterday and that's why I missed the cult claim). Btw, in my gambit, I was *attempting* to insinuate Kast was a tracker that tracked Nikanor to inHim. Although I kind of forgot about the delay thing, etc.

Who says 'Wut' to that post? A confused mafia. If Andrius was a town that was really surprised, I'd think he'd ask a question, or form an opinion. His post of just saying 'wut' makes little sense to me.

...

Also, reflecting who was Vanillized, I somewhat want to take back my opinion of a town vanillalizer. Mera was not obvtown, so why would mafia vanillialize him? Kast was pretty-protown at that point with his tracking ability, so town wouldn't vanillaize him. Based on Kast's most recent post, and my feeling the entire game that Tans isn't acting how he did as town before, I think it is possible Tans is 3rd party and has two abilities to choose from... but I don't know. Regardless, at this point, I don't want to lynch Tans today.

[Kast]

@Muffin/BB-
>_>

Lynch today is obv. We lynch Andy.

BB is town, balance says we

need

a regular cop (flavor or color cop could also have fit). Muffin leave that one alone please, you've done the role analysis and you should see this as well.

Scum can prolly still vanillize, but there's no way there's 2 scum blockers. MY preference is for Toast to block Nik with BB investigating Tans to confirm if he's legit. Muffin can do his RB or whatever on me (or hell, since it seems BB/Tans are the only ones pushing the "Kast is nillizer" BS, then BB can investigate me).

Gonna think a bit and formalize a plan for tonight.

@Muffin-
So it doesn't get lost:
Is Nik's reaction consistent with being Sinestro, mafia aligned WL?

It would probably mean he

did

get the WL PM, but he wouldn't be conf. town. It would also explain his D1 "gambit" with Toog. To add to this, Andy and I played in a large before this where scum very effectively "day vigged" one of their own teammates on D1 and then just played VI/lurky the rest of the game and coasted to a win based on the D1 scum lynch credit. Wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Nik's gambit was a suggestion by Andy.

@Hiplop/Nik claiming-
If you have anti-cult powers, then please claim. If you don't, then claim if your WL power makes sense to claim.

[Blackberry]

@Kast, you can only be vanilliazer if Vezok is a scum-partner-godfather

...

Rereading, Nikanor being Vanillaizer (and his lack of intent to claim supports this) makes a lot of sense. Although 3 people being vanillaed? At least one has to be scum faking >_<.

...

Rereading, I think Kast is smart for catching onto Ludi. I overlooked the L-1 thing and thought it was too obvious for Cult Leader to do. On second thought though, if you were a Cult Leader and about to get lynched and your own cult was voting you, I guess it makes sense to do that because you have nothing else to lose when you're about to die.

...

I want Andrius to post his thoughts on all the players remaining. =D That way when we kill Andrius, we can find his scum buddies easier. ... Can anyone find if OS said he was faking his 'Toasty went no where' result? O_o Let me read Ludi's posts again or something.

[zMuffinMan]

I've said multiple, multiple times that I don't think Nikanor is acting like town. His playstyle doesn't make sense. It made no sense for him to go from saying 'This is my favorite game' to a sudden loss of enthusiasm and lurking/sitting-back and not responding at all. That is why I was willing to get him lynched because I felt confident that he was CR.

Walk me through this thought process, because I'd argue your playstyle doesn't make sense.

So, he's not "acting like town" because he's less active?
And you think he was suspicious for being really, really active early and saying it was his favourite game before having his activity suddenly decline. Why did this make you think he was CR?
Is it that you thought he didn't know he was CR until D3 or something?
What other things about his play made you think he was CR? Did the fact that he was jailed by Toast N1 mean nothing to you?
Why were you so confident that you were willing to gambit like that? What if *gasp* you were wrong?

FTR, are you saying right now that you think I'm scum and want to lynch me?

No, I think I said quite clearly I'd prefer an Andrius lynch because I think he's a scum roleblocker. You're probably not a roleblocker. If you are mafia, you're much less of a concern. Plus, I am thinking about targeting you tonight, anyway.

-----

If you've got an ability to stop multiple players/the entire scum team, then great. If you can hit three players, go ahead and block me, Tans, and Nik since whoever the power stealer is, it's almost definitely one of us three.

I can't target more than one player, but if I get it right, it essentially screws scum over.

Btw, if any of the WLs have gained an anti-cult power (e.g. something similar to Subliminal's "cure black recruits") let us know since that could mean we have 1 recruit floating around.

WL abilities gained were pre-determined, so not sure what you mean by this.

Also, with OS's fake Track/Watch claim, town investigation roles make more sense (Regular Cult-Cop, Mafia-Cop, and Tracker, with 1x Watcher mason).

ftr, the ability I used N1 was a modified watcher ability (I learned what roles targeted someone), and I also have a 1-shot watch ability now. It would not surprise me in the least if one or both of hiplop and Nikanor have investigative abilities as well, which is why I'm skeptical of BB's claim (because, quite frankly, it's a brilliant safe-claim - as much as a doctor is a brilliant safe-claim)

Is Nik's reaction consistent with being Sinestro, mafia aligned WL?

I don't think Nikanor is mafia.

It would mean that Sinestro would be the only scum player to get a WL fake-claim (Antrocitus and Nekron not getting one with Sinestro getting one? Um....) I also don't think he was bussing three of his partners like that, and some things he's said so far and his thought processes in regards to different things have made me think he's town.

Yeah, he's lurking, but whatever. I don't think he's scum. It's far more likely he's really a WL.

[Blackberry]

I have 100% proof I am town.

Question: If I had guaranteed proof that I am town, should I reveal it, or wait till later so there is still doubt in people's minds (i.e., make the mafia's decision harder)?

[zMuffinMan]

Post it.

[Blackberry]

So, he's not "acting like town" because he's less active?

Tans has seen me play before as TOWN and as MAFIA. I am surprised he hasn't called me out yet as being town. Overall, he isn't acting as frantic as he did as town before in another game.

And you think he was suspicious for being really, really active early and saying it was his favourite game before having his activity suddenly decline. Why did this make you think he was CR?

I don't recall ever suspecting Nikanor until his activity decline. Before that, my only suspscion on his was the fact he wasn't supporting me when he has seen me as Mafia before when I literally do nothing and the fact he was trying to avoid calling me town.

Is it that you thought he didn't know he was CR until D3 or something?

As I've said before, I think he was coasting on his Cop-Gambit, thought everyone saw him as town, and decided to coast to the finish from there by doing nothing. Tans and I have seen scum do this before.

What other things about his play made you think he was CR? Did the fact that he was jailed by Toast N1 mean nothing to you?

Based on how the 'Toast Jailkept Nikanor' came out, I can see it as Toast lying as mafia or, hell, I can see Toast lying as TOWN. If Toast is Jailkeeper, knows Nikanor is lying, why not claim to have blocked Nikanor in order to clear yourself and throw suspect on someone you know is lying? I did not believe Toast blocked Nikanor. On top of that, Nikanor claiming bulletproof made me suspect he is CR as well.

Why were you so confident that you were willing to gambit like that? What if *gasp* you were wrong?

Then I was wrong. I'm not afraid of being wrong... ?

[Blackberry]

Anyways, this is the remaining player list.

We, the cult, knew Blackberry was town

(I tried to recruit him last night, not that it matters),

via oversoul

, and thus confirmed town is him, vezok, and muffin man.

I'm not 100% sure what this means (Cop Investigation, Tracking), but I'm pretty sure it means OS used a JOAT on me and knew I was town. Either via investigating/tracking me N1 and getting his result N2, or by somehow the mod let him investigate me N3, get his result, and THEN recruit (although IMO this seems almost-impossible unless mods do Cult a funny way).

Ludi is saying that, VIA OVERSOUL, they knew I was town. I.e., they did something at some point and knew I was town.

(Oh! Sudden thought. Since he had a Day Kill, perhaps he had a Day Cop investigation on me...)