Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[ICEninja]

I find that nacho getting off the wagon quite fishy also..
But. He has played enough games on site to know that people would suspect him about it. I'm pretty sure he's town. Why would he as scum do it like that if he knows it would attract attention?

This is terrible reasoning to discount an action for possible scum to make. I don't think Nacho is scummy, despite disagreeing with him about a bodyguard not likely being a fake claim, but you discounting something as fishy because he's a good player and wouldn't do something as scum that would attract attention? No no no, bad and dangerous logic.

Cheery has read this game, but has nothing to add, didn't vote anyone, and isn't pursuing any scum suspects. Just throwing it out there, I'd probably be OK lynching this slot.

It's funny, I thought I had lots of stuff to comment on, but looking back at everything, this game has been pretty uninteresting, and aside from the claim which I've already talked extensively about, anything else is pretty minor.

[Melmond]

I'm finished reading now. To start off, here's my reads.

Town

:

Jabberwock
Nacho
Iceninja

Null

:

Cheery Dog
jmo16mla
Mirhawk
Dunhamganger
iamausername

Scum

:

Absta
Bacde
Disturbed_One
Shamrock

Disturbed one really looks like scum to me, his pressuring of jmo didn't look good. Jmo didn't exactly look good either though. The bigger thing for me is that he's been moving around his votes to whatever the big wagon is. It just looks like he's trying to get attention away from him and get credit from those who are making other wagons.

Bacde actually looked like town to me up to about page 6, then once he got some pressure, he started making awful posts. After reading the jabberwock post that had his earlier posts, I could definately see the reasoning for them thinking he was scum earlier. Of course the bodyguard claim makes me think there is a possibility of him being town, so I don't want to lynch him today.

I agree that absta does seem like scum, but thats mostly gut. Just a slight scumread.

Shamrock seems scum for the same reason everyone else says. Active lurking.

VOTE: Disturbed_One

More coming, just don't want to lose what I've wrote.

[Melmond]

Actually nevermind, I was going to go on more about bacde, but I just realized that I misunderstood his format of his reads. I thought he had put everyone as town and no one as scum, but he did it as more of a meter than a list.

[Bacde]

Melmond, you mixed up Nacho and Absta on your reads list.

This game is pretty much at a standstill until Sham does some posting.

[Bacde]

@Jabberwock what is your read on Shamrock/Disturbed and the way they just talked? (this was from a few pages ago)

[Jabberwock]

Disturbed_One is Town. We've made our scumread on Shamrock plenty clear.

[absta101]

@Bacde

- I see Disturbed as town atm.
I don't see why Nacho changing his read on Bacde is scummy. I've pushed a lynch (hard) on town as town before.
---

@Username

- Other than post #70 and #73, you don't talk to/interrogate your suspects directly. I tried looking through some of your previous games to see if it's your playstyle, but i'm still unsure.
Is this behaviour playstyle? If so, please provide links to some relevant games.

This is you trying to convince town your suspect is scum instead of trying to figure out (by questioning) if your read is correct.
Post: #37, #105, #112, #236.
---

@Nacho

Why are Username, Hawk and me (possible) scum?

[Jabberwock]

Nacho, why the iaaun read flip?

Done waiting.
VOTE: Shamrock

[Alduskkel]

Vote Count #12

Shamrock (6) - Bacde, ICEninja, Mirhawk, Disturbed_One, Nachomamma8, Jabberwock

Disturbed_One (3) - jmo16mla, Shamrock, Melmond
ICEninja (1) - Dunhamganger
Mirhawk (1) - iamausername

Not Voting (2) - Cheery Dog, absta101

Deadline is in: (expired on 2012-12-15 00:00:00)

13 alive, 7 to lynch.

[ICEninja]

Hrm. Yeah if Shamrock doesn't post by tomorrow I definitely wouldn't mind to wake up and read his scum flip.

[Alduskkel]

Prodded Dunhamganger.

[Nachomamma8]

Hrm. Yeah if Shamrock doesn't post by tomorrow I definitely wouldn't mind to wake up and read his scum flip.

i would
need a little more time

[iamausername]

@iam
Why would I not go back and look at that post again in those two hours. I obviously had enough time to do so judging from the time stamps.

why would you talk in such hypothetical terms about events you are claiming actually happened. life is full of mysteries.

Additionally I was arguing with bacde about his and Nacho's interactions during the time in question, Nacho's case is a part of that. I reread that stretch of posts a more than once during that period.

i'm still not following the timeline of events here. ok, you read through the exchange several times, but... when exactly did you change your mind about Nacho's case? was it on the first rereading, or did it take a few passes before you realised that it wasn't as well supported as you thought?

For example, while the timestamp issue is a good point, the second/third person business is ridiculous. Newer players often switch between second/third person out of an awkward sense of detachment, and

I

do that all the time. I'll even switch in the same post at times. This isn't any kind of valid tell, and with iaaun's continuous attention to this kind of thing, we'd expect him to be aware that it's not alignment-indicative.

i mean, obviously, i've noticed that people jump between second and third person before, and clearly it's not any kind of universal scumtell (as if any such thing exists). but there was something about the specific circumstance of this specific example that felt really off to me, and i was just doing my best to figure out why that is by attempting to explain it. i'm not sure that

i'm

even satisfied with my explanation, tbh, but that post still bothers me, and that's the best explanation i've got right now. vv

Are you accusing me of accidentally buddying up to ICE? Because I don't think buddying is a scumtell unless it's on purpose.

also this response feels like 'caught me for the wrong reasons' AGAIN.

I don't know, I can't really defend my opinion on this. It just feels somewhat artificial to me. I'm having difficulty in telling why I feel that way though.

but then this feels totally town and i don't know what to do with that.

@Username

- Other than post #70 and #73, you don't talk to/interrogate your suspects directly. I tried looking through some of your previous games to see if it's your playstyle, but i'm still unsure.
Is this behaviour playstyle? If so, please provide links to some relevant games.

This is you trying to convince town your suspect is scum instead of trying to figure out (by questioning) if your read is correct.

i don't always use the same approach; i change up my playstyle from game to game. i believe that predictability is the enemy. if town play is completely predictable, it makes it so much easier from scum to emulate it. pretty sure i've discussed this in a previous game, but hell if i remember which one.

but yeah, it's

a

playstyle. questioning them is far from the only way to figure out if your suspect is scum, bro. pretending you're totally convinced about minor hunches can be absolutely devastating if you play it right. here is a fine example of this strategy; in this game i managed to completely nail a scum after just three pages by exaggerating the strength of a town read. i also nailed the other scum later by appropriating the tools of the oppressors and manipulating the hell out of everybody for great justice, but unfortunately i couldn't quite convince the rest of the town that i was right again. it was a really hard sell, that scummy bastard played 'em good.

...god i love rereading that game and remembering how fucking amazing i can be at mafia. it's a real confidence booster, you know?

---

p.s. hey everybody, this Shamrock lynch that is obviously about to happen is entirely acceptable, but i'd really like to get that whole timeline issue with Mirhawk nailed down before the end of the day, so if everyone could kindly hold off on any hammers for the moment, that'd be swell. kthxbai! xxx

[Mirhawk]

There's nothing hypothetical about what I said. I claimed that I reread it, then pointed out that I had ample time to do so. Those are facts.

Not sure when I changed my mind, after bacde's post 187 I think, since bacde references Nacho's original case in it. Would have been my second or third time reading it I would guess.

also this response feels like 'caught me for the wrong reasons' AGAIN.

If you feel I was buddying ICE that's your prerogative I guess. I would like to ask for clarification as to what you meant the first time you brought this argument up though.

[ICEninja]

Since iam requested some time, I'll retract my request for a Shamrock hammer.

He's still posting elsewhere, though.

[Cheery Dog]

I was just about to come and hammer him though
Actually I wasn't because I'd like to get further into this game than I currently am before going into lynch mode, but I am happy enough to decide to place a vote now.

VOTE: Absta

looking back at why I picked him up as possible scum
Post 53, hit a wall on jmo (I'm not sure what this means), so moves onto the other person that was attacking jmo.
Post 235, I am unable to place "just learned that bodyguards are usually town" under true town motivation, but it does fit under a heading of scum wanting to look like town motivation.

[Disturbed_One]

I kind of like Absta. It's kind of hard to explain, in fact I can't explain it, really. But I get the sense he's town and I just can't shake it.

Honestly, didn't like RebRabbit. When I get a moment, I'm gonna do some investigating of Cheery's posts.

[absta101]

Nacho what you waiting for.

I've got an intent to hammer.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, why the iaaun read flip?

Done waiting.
VOTE: Shamrock

it wasn't exactly a read flip
i was considering your point
he's still pretty town though

[Melmond]

Shamrock hasn't actually posted anywhere since tuesday. He might just be a flake.
If he does post again and it's more useless stuff, I'd be fine with a hammer though.

[iamausername]

Not sure when I changed my mind, after bacde's post 187 I think, since bacde references Nacho's original case in it. Would have been my second or third time reading it I would guess.

are you absolutely sure about that? you changed your mind after you made post 185?

[ICEninja]

Hmm actually...yeah it seems like Shamrock has site-wide flaked. Grr I don't know how I feel about that.

[Alduskkel]

Prodded Shamrock.

[jmo16mla]

Sorry I've been playing like crap guys. Finals week is kicking my butt. Il post more meaningful things Sunday.

Cherry, what do you think of shamrock? You failed to mention him in your analysis. Or maybe you did I just didn't find it.

[ICEninja]

Cheery actually failed to mention anything useful at all in his analysis, if we're bringing that up. Melmond at least tried, but still hasn't really said much that was interesting.