The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

The lies:
-Innocent isn''t allignment. When this was pointed out, it got changed to ''anti-spirit''. Also, in this game, it''s also very strange if somebody''s allignment would be ''pro-town''.

That's a misrepresentation of things I have said. My role PM specifically states "fellow Innocents". My Naomi investigation PM specifically states both "pro-town" and "anti-Spirit", strange as you may think it to be. I have been entirely consistent, and nothing has "changed".

First, we got Stepho saying that he's Innocent.
After some discussion about how this seems very unlikely, you give the reult you've claimed to have received and you state that Naomi is Innocent and/or Pro-town.
More banter about your claimed result and you state that Naomi is 'anti-spirit'.
I don't see this as coincidence.

-Naomi states that her role is ''gentelman thief'', which is what Stepho claimed before changing it to ''infamous gentleman thief''

That I said "gentleman thief" first is irrelevant, since I EBWOP'ed it a minute later because I forgot the "infamous" part. My PM states "infamous gentleman thief". If I were making up something safe, don't you think I would have stopped at "gentleman thief"? A quick Google search for "Trilby gentleman thief" gives back lots of results, but searching for "Trilby infamous gentleman thief" doesn't seem to bring back anything with that choice of words except for this game itself. And was Pablo's untimely death not evidence that I'm not lying about my investigations? I don't believe that Pablo hinted at his Innocent role, which is one reason why I chose to investigate him...because I thought he might be scum.

It's called not paying attention and Night talk. The thing about Naomi doesn't prove a thing. And you were wrong about her claimed role. So it even gets worse.
As for Pablo, no, it doesn't mean that you are speaking the truth.

-No role PM so far claimed has ''an fellow Innocents''. All the others have claimed ''and fellow humans''.

This is basically it regarding Stepho.

That the PMs are apparently inconsistent does not make me a liar. And Amished (who seems to be the most familiar with the series) has already described why the choice of wording may be deliberate and make sense.

It means that you are fake claiming. So yes, you are lying.
And no, Amished explanation doesn't make sense after checking it again. He states that Janine doesn't know a thing about the situation, which is why he thinks she's aligned with the Innocents. He hasn't explained yet why the Innocents aren't alligned with the Innocents than, but with the humans.

[ZazieR]

@zazier - is there anything Naomi has done that is not explained by the fact that this is her very first game? If she is scum, stepho is also scum since he claimed an innocent on her. That would mean we have TWO fake claiming cop roles and no real cop.

You missed the part where I said that I think we have fake-claiming players?
That's strange as you attacked me for trying to lynch Stepho yesterday.

I do have something I need to post. I received a couple pms from the mod after asking for clarification. The matches are not transferable. I have to keep them and I must be alive at end game for a town win. If I'm not alive at endgame the best the town can get is a draw. The mod also confirmed that the scum do not need the matches to win.

Unvote Vote Setael

[ZazieR]

Unvote

L-2 now if I'm correct.

[ZazieR]

Naomi

, remember to respond to this when/if you get here.

[Setael]

This wagon is laughable, but I'm not going to blame whatever townies might be on my wagon. I'm blaming the mod for the ridiculousness. I felt I had no voice but to be upfront and ask for protection from NK but OF COURSE the scum would jump on this and OF COURSE the townies are also suspicious. Frankly, I'd probably vote me too if I hadn't received the pms.

Here's the problem: you're all expecting his game to follow mafia rules and be why your use to when KoC is obviously doing everything he can to break all those rules. Scum, obviously, are capitalizing on this. Unless the town stops expecting this game to be "normal" we're going to lose. If you lynch me the best we can do is draw. I tried to give then to Elmo. Would I have done that if I were scum? That's how things have been transferrd before right? In thread just like I did. So if they were transferrable it would have worked and hohum would have them.

It would make no sense for me to draw this attention to myself like this now if I were scum. Yes, it's different than you'd expect a mafia game to go, but none of you have ANY reason to think this game should go as you expect.

[Setael]

Also... Tajo in your 74th post you said I was obv town. Then in your post you said I wouldn't give up the matches, when I did try to. Can you explain?

[Pyromaniac]

3. Innocents win if they destroy all Evil players. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

[Pyromaniac]

To prevent a multi-protecting doc from being overpowered, I'd bet that at least one person, whom may be Xtomx, has the ability to break through protection at least once.

[ZazieR]

It's laughable, yet you would also have voted if it wasn't you?
And add Post 2856 with all the other reasons mentioned why this seems to be a lie.

[Stephoscope]

My strong gut feel is that Setael is telling the truth. I have thought she was town all game, Pablo's request for protection is in line with what she claims, it's definitely possible that the Manor has to be burnt down to win, and her point about this game is definitely valid...go and read rule 13 again.

IMHO we should lynch someone like dramonic today, and I can investigate Setael tonight if need be.

[ZazieR]

Stepho, the day that rules lie for the first time, will be on the 30th of februari.

[Stephoscope]

Stepho, the day that rules lie for the first time, will be on the 30th of februari.

And yet things seem to be going exactly like the rules said they would all along.

[ZazieR]

In case you didn't understand what I was talking about, win conditions don't lie.

[dramonic]

SO shall someone end Set?

[Stephoscope]

In case you didn't understand what I was talking about, win conditions don't lie.

So your buddy Xtoxm flipped scum and you had nothing to say about it, then Pablo flipped Innocent, just like I said he would, and you had nothing to say about it. What will you have to say if Setael is lynched and flips town?

[ZazieR]

What did I have to say about those deaths then?
Setael is lying. There has been reasons mentioned why.

What do you have to say about the win condition argument?

[Stephoscope]

What did I have to say about those deaths then?
Setael is lying. There has been reasons mentioned why.

What do you have to say about the win condition argument?

I think you are clinging to traditional mafia strategies when we've specifically been told that we shouldn't. Normally I might go along with a Setael lynch to at least get you to knock it off if she flipped town, but based on what she has claimed, the stakes are too high. If she is scum, we can get her later.

I almost hate to investigate her tonight, because I'm pretty sure she's telling the truth, but if the town consensus is that I should, I will.

[ZazieR]

Once again, the win condition is stated in the OP. It doesn't match with what Setael is claiming. Rules don't lie, players do.
Also, the funny thing is that you are mentioning rule 13:

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the town/innocents. You may be required to actually think,

instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here*

Get used to it. ithurtsithurtsirthurts

May I know why you didn't point that out, while you have claimed an investigation role and want to investigate Setael if that's what the town wants to see what her allignment is?

Also, answer the first question of my previous post.

[populartajo]

Also... Tajo in your 74th post you said I was obv town. Then in your post you said I wouldn't give up the matches, when I did try to. Can you explain?

Can you quote them?

I dont remember doing anything like this.

[Amished]

@Zaz in 2850: You're saying it doesn't make sense for humans (who are innocent from my perspective) to be aligned with the "innocents"? They're the same faction from what I can tell. Of course they're aligned with each other.

Like somebody else said, Pablo got modkilled and the matches live on. One way or another I feel that if we're able to come around and lynch the scum one of us will be able to pick up the matches and burn down the house. What makes me even more suspicious of the matches being tied to our win condition is that even though the manor was burnt down (in the first game) it had absolutely zero effect on stopping the evil forces. I claim bullshit that the matches will affect our win condition in any way.

Unvote
Vote: Setael

[ZazieR]

No. It's about the part in the role PM. Each role PM states 'fellow humans'. Only Stepho has claimed 'fellow Innocents'.
You have claimed here that it makes sense. Now I'm asking why the Innocent role PM would state 'felow humans' then when they would fit with the Janine explanation.

(Hope this post is a bit understandable >.<)

[ZazieR]

Amished

Can you respond to this?

[Stephoscope]

Once again, the win condition is stated in the OP. It doesn't match with what Setael is claiming. Rules don't lie, players do.
Also, the funny thing is that you are mentioning rule 13:

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for the town/innocents. You may be required to actually think,

instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here*

Get used to it. ithurtsithurtsirthurts

May I know why you didn't point that out, while you have claimed an investigation role and want to investigate Setael if that's what the town wants to see what her allignment is?

Also, answer the first question of my previous post.

Don't pick and choose what part of the rules you want to listen to. You're quoting a rule saying there will be things you don't understand, and then asking about things that you don't understand. I've provided plenty of evidence that you should listen to me, although admittedly my defense of Setael has nothing to do with my role, just my gut feel that she is telling the truth.

And my point about the deaths is that you had nothing to say about them; you didn't stop to question yourself when you and Xtoxm were busy attacking me together and then Xtoxm flipped scum, and you haven't given me any credit for the evidence that I investigated Pablo.

[ZazieR]

Xtoxm was SK. He's an independant role, so he doesn't care who dies as long as it isn't him. I've seen enough reasons why you are lying and I've pointed them out.
As for Pablo, it doesn't prove anything.

Rules don't lie. Meaning that the win con for town is to kill every Evil player. Not to kill every Evil player and to burn down the house. It also doesn't make sense to get a draw if we don't burn down the house or a loss.
Reasons have been stated why she's very likely lying. You haven't commented on any of them. You are basing this all on one rule, while another rule states that she's lying.

[ZazieR]

Also, for those interested, rule 13 is a nice rule:

13. There will be crazy shit, descriptions of unpleasant actions, and things you may well not understand at all in this game. It is not intended to be particularly fair, nice, or easy for

the town/innocents

. You may be required to actually think, instead of playing follow the *insert role/s here* Get used to it. ithurtsithurtsirthurts

I just love the bolded. Don't you guys agree, Naomi, Stepho and Amished? Shall we also look at rule 3?:

3.

Innocents

win if they destroy all Evil players. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

Vote Naomi