Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame


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Post Post #2775 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:26 pm

Post by Aegor »

i.e. PV's Night 4 submission used up the BP last night?

Anyway, I wanted to make sure that Anatole claimed Timeshifted JK. Since he did, the lack of NK Night 5 is weird because at least one scum party thought that Anatole could be JKing me. PV was still alive to give an order. If Anatole is a legit JK, then the lack of NK does not make sense. Surely both parties would not target Tammy given that they knew Anatole would JK her the subsequent night. The only way that could work is if PV targeted the remaining maf, who is an RBer that RBed Anatole and then tried to NK Tammy, thinking that she would be unprotected.

On the other hand, if Anatole is scum, why not actually perform a NK? How could the NK have been stopped, given that I was the only one protected/JKed?



@Mod: Please confirm that the Serial Killer Role has no modifiers other than Timeshifted, e.g. Bulletproof or Strongman.
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Post Post #2776 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:28 pm

Post by Bert »

Wow he agreed to bus you.

I don't know why that would be necessary here

It wasn't impromptu if they have daytalk to discuss at the beginning of D3.

Anatole was the surest about Pie flipping scum. That matches.

The Desperado death was something they didn't see coming probably
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Post Post #2777 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:32 pm

Post by Aegor »

How do you explain the lack of NKs last night?
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Post Post #2778 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:35 pm

Post by Bert »

It feels like there was a deliberate No kill

That's how it feels.

Unless a faction has limited kills.

Peregrine felt like a vig/SK during massclaim to everyone
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Post Post #2779 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:49 pm

Post by Aegor »

Great, so Anatole is then the obvious choice for today.

Oh, and his reluctance to 1v1 and his weak insistence that Bulb be killed first are pretty scummy, in my opinion.

I really liked reading this game.
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Post Post #2780 (ISO) » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:54 pm

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 2724, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Ok, let's 1v1 but we lynch you first? Sound good?


Where's your vote?

In post 2725, Anatole Kuragin wrote:How do you not see how anti-town 1v1s are? You are wrong. If we did this we would lose two townies and the game would be over. And hopefully you would be blacklisted forever for such an egotistical move.


This is not an egotistical move. Heck, I'm not one to 1v1 in general. What I'm saying is that there is no way that there are 3 protective roles in this game, which means that one of our claims is false. As such, the lynch needs to be between us. I'm that confident in you being scum that I am willing to risk my lynch. Compare that to you, who is shaking in his boots.

In post 2726, Anatole Kuragin wrote:We also have no idea what the SK could do or what the last mafia role is.


The last mafia role is irrelevant. As for the SK, a look at the last Timeshift Mafia might give us a clue, unless it's as simple as all his kills weren't affected by Timeshift.

In post 2726, Anatole Kuragin wrote:
You are being blinded by your obsession with the number of protective roles YOU think would be proper.


Okay, let's look at the claimed and conf. power for this game:

Town

Tracker
1-shot BP vest giver
Doctor
JK
6VTs

Scum

Goon
2-shot RB
???

SK

Now obviously one of the town roles under vest giver is fake, but I seriously want someone to explain to me how 3 protective roles is not overloaded when the only other town power role is a tracker. I have some experience with the game review process, and I can say with certainty that there is no way a game would get approval with that ratio (assume 5 VTs in that scenario). The game would have been considered wildly unbalanced, even before you add in the timeshift mechanic, so when I say there is no way there are 3 protective roles in this setup, I'm speaking from experience designing games, and I can say that there is no freaking way that both of our roles exist in this setup. Studio knew that too, which was why he didn't want to budge from you d4. This should have been taken care of then, but town was too busy waffling to realize that we had just solved the game.

In post 2727, Anatole Kuragin wrote:If we knew SK or Mafia had strong-man kills would you find it more likely I was telling the truth? We already know they had a roleblocker.


Are you admitting to being a strongman?

In post 2728, singersigner wrote:I almost 1v1ed a neighborizer in the last game I was in because I was also a neighborizor and didn't believe that there could be two. The problem is that they kept saying I must be scum, too, but didn't push my lynch very hard because a 1v1 would've left them either probably auto lynched knowing I would flip town, or potentially lynched first.

Problem was, as town, I was also afraid of the possibility of out-guessing the mod and potentially fucking town over by now lynching two town by default.

Sad Days were had by all.


See, but there's the difference. You both were a similar role and both behaved in a town manner when you showed suspicion of each other. Anatole has not. In fact, he has taken every role at face value, even though there is a lot of evidence that points to the exact opposite. That's not a town mindset. That's a scum mindset of knowing that he's the last on his team and that everyone is probably what they say.

In post 2729, Anatole Kuragin wrote:Bulba, do you find it at all strange you haven't been nightkilled yet considering you haven't protected yourself once?


I figure you've been saving me for Lylo, which is when you're going to break out all the suspicion that you should have broke out 2 days ago.

In post 2734, Bert wrote:We're at an even number. Does that mean this day will become a no lynch? :oops:


It better not.

In post 2747, Bert wrote:
Bulba, how sure are you that Anatole is scum - instead of percentages, use an animal of your choice


Burmese python. A great white shark off the coast of New Jersey. The ape committing murders in the Rue Morgue.

In post 2750, singersigner wrote:
Bulb probably by default if it's not molla.


Why don't you think Anatole is scum?

In post 2754, singersigner wrote:Can we please stop pussyfooting around and make a decision. The way I figure, it's me or molla right now, and molla was supposedly jailkept last night so barring some fucked up scum trying to target him, a no kill will almost guarantee it so we might as well just get me out of the picture.


How is it you or Molla? I want to know how you think there can possibly be 3 protective roles in a power light setup. And if you don't think there can be, then you need to get your vote off of yourself and put it somewhere useful, i.e. on one of me or Anatole.

In post 2773, Aegor wrote:
@Bulb:
Confirm your ability is not timeshifted.


It is not timeshifted. I cannot bypass the mechanic.
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Post Post #2781 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:58 am

Post by D3f3nd3r »

In post 2775, Aegor wrote:
@Mod: Please confirm that the Serial Killer Role has no modifiers other than Timeshifted, e.g. Bulletproof or Strongman.


Cannot confirm nor deny.
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Post Post #2782 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:03 am

Post by D3f3nd3r »

VC 6.2 (8/16/14)
Bulbazak (L-4)
Anatole Kuragin (L-3) Bulbazak
Bert (L-4)
Aegor (L-4)
Bbmolla (L-4)
Singersigner (L-3) Singersigner
No Lynch (L-4)
Not Voting (4) Anatole Kuragin, Bert, Aegor, Bbmolla

Deadline is 8/28/14 at 8pm EDT. With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
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Post Post #2783 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:33 am

Post by Bert »

VOTE: Anatole
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Post Post #2784 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:55 am

Post by Aegor »

VOTE: Anatole
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Post Post #2785 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:46 am

Post by singersigner »

Ah, well, that progressed pretty quickly. :shifty:

Processing...
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Post Post #2786 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:52 am

Post by Aegor »

In post 2780, Bulbazak wrote:
It is not timeshifted. I cannot bypass the mechanic.

What do you mean by "cannot bypass the mechanic?"
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Post Post #2787 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:53 am

Post by Aegor »

In post 2785, singersigner wrote:Ah, well, that progressed pretty quickly. :shifty:

Processing...

I do not like this post.

What is the problem with the idea of Anatole scum? You better hope the game ends with his lynch.
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Post Post #2788 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:57 am

Post by BBmolla »

I do

I'm just not sure it will so I'm holding on
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Post Post #2789 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:07 am

Post by singersigner »

Because I feel like if it's one of the two it's Bulb which I've already stated so yeah uh huh good luck threatening me into making a decision before I'm ready :]
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Post Post #2790 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:10 am

Post by singersigner »

I feel like you're trying really hard to convince yourself I'm scum if you're wrong about Anatole but I really can't help you with that other than convince you to lynch me first to avoid this petty threatening nonsense that will really just cost you the game with your arrogance
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Post Post #2791 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:18 am

Post by Bulbazak »

In post 2786, Aegor wrote:
In post 2780, Bulbazak wrote:
It is not timeshifted. I cannot bypass the mechanic.

What do you mean by "cannot bypass the mechanic?"


Timeshifted as a modifier seems to mean that the action happens immediately instead of being delayed. My role is not like that. A protect submitted on n1 would not go into effect until the end of n2.

In post 2789, singersigner wrote:Because I feel like if it's one of the two it's Bulb which I've already stated so yeah uh huh good luck threatening me into making a decision before I'm ready :]


You still haven't explained why you don't think Anatole is scum or why you think I'm more likely to be scum between us.
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Post Post #2792 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:32 am

Post by Aegor »

Hold up.

@Anatole:
Are your Jailkeeps executed immediately or one night after submission? It sounds like you are saying they are resolved night-of-submission (timeshifted).

My NA list was therefore wrong.






I was shot Night 2 and was given a BP vest. I confirmed this with the mod, since he had not told me.

Anatole: JK
Night 1: Jails Pie
Night 2: Jails Molla
Night 3: Jails Bulba
Night 4: Jails Tammy
Night 5: Jails Molla

Bulba: Doctor
Night 2: Jeesh
Night 3: Jeesh
Night 4: Tammy
Night 5: Tammy


Kills:
Night 2: Tammy and Messiah Complex
Night 3: Dr Pants
Night 4: Studio 54
Night 5: [No one]
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Post Post #2793 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:33 am

Post by Bert »

Pretty sure Anatole said it resolves night after submission
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Post Post #2794 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:33 am

Post by Aegor »

That tells us pretty much nothing, since Mafia seems to be Timeshifted, unless one of them has a Timeshift modifier.
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Post Post #2795 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:34 am

Post by Aegor »

In post 2793, Bert wrote:Pretty sure Anatole said it resolves night after submission

He claimed Timeshifted, though. I was under the impression that that meant the actions are delayed by a night, but I have just realized, after being told by Bulba, that Timeshifted roles are the ones that do bypass the mechanic.
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Post Post #2796 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:38 am

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In post 2789, singersigner wrote:Because I feel like if it's one of the two it's Bulb which I've already stated so yeah uh huh good luck threatening me into making a decision before I'm ready :]

I am not threatening you. As I have said since I have replaced in, my two top scumreads are your slot and Anatole. This has nothing to do with pressuring you to vote.

Also, how is Bulb more likely scum than Anatole? I have read this entire game and not seen any explanation.

In post 2790, singersigner wrote:I feel like you're trying really hard to convince yourself I'm scum if you're wrong about Anatole but I really can't help you with that other than convince you to lynch me first to avoid this petty threatening nonsense that will really just cost you the game with your arrogance

I feel like you are misunderstanding my posts very much.
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Post Post #2797 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:43 am

Post by Bert »

Peregrine had the chance to hammer Anatole on the day we no-lynched, but he kept townreading him and didn't vote

Even remarked on twilight that Anatole was 90% confirmed town.

What do you think of the way Pie interacted with Molla?
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Post Post #2798 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:49 am

Post by Bert »

Unvote


Giving myself this night to go over this before I re-vote.
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Post Post #2799 (ISO) » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:59 am

Post by Aegor »

In post 2797, Bert wrote:Peregrine had the chance to hammer Anatole on the day we no-lynched, but he kept townreading him and didn't vote

Even remarked on twilight that Anatole was 90% confirmed town.

Are you saying that Anatole's and PV's actions somehow interacted at night? Otherwise, I do not see how that is relevant. Anatole maybe jailed one of PV's targets? That still does not clear Anatole; scum could have a JKer. Am I missing some scenario? Unless PV had a 1-shot Cop ability and cleared Anatole.

What do you think of the way Pie interacted with Molla?

I buy his attack on Molla as genuine. Pie also cleared Anatole solely on the basis that Molla was voting for him. Also check out . Anatole joins with a Molla vote in , but inexplicably mentions nothing about Messiah, whom he labels a scumspect.



Anatole has been a scumread for me the entire game, even before I knew about all the claim stuff and how it played out. I will need a really compelling reason to look elsewhere, and I have not come upon any yet.
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