Newbie Game #489 - Murder in Smallburg (Game Over!)

[Flameaxe]

Way to quickhammer Franz, way to quickhammer. /sigh.

[Selande]

Okay, I'll continue with

Boggzie/Wolfbullet

:

Boggzie's main target seems to be N-N: he attacks him early on for "condescending behavior" - and justifies this later with "trying to get a rise out of N-N" - and finds N-N's vote for coxy "worrying". After Franzie enters the game and votes for Boggzie, Franzie becomes another suspect, he sees a connection between Franzie and N-N and finally votes for N-N. Two posts later he still suspects both, but now Franzie is his top-suspect, he unvotes N-N but doesn't vote Franzie.
Flameaxe's unexplained vote for Boggzie gets him Boggzie's vote in return, Franzie's vote for Flameaxe seems to clear him in Boggzie's mind, so his two mafia-suspects (before he leaves the game) are Flameaxe and N-N, with a vote on Flameaxe.

Boggzie's lurker comment is really odd:

So, I ask my fellow townies - we should follow the voting of a guy that lurks, and as soon as he "returns" (i.e.

gets called on it

) he tosses a vote for no reason?

(bolding mine)

Called on it

As far as my "lurking" comment, I genuinely confused Flamaxe as the replacement for zazq, whom we had the "lurking/inactive" discussion on.

But a few posts earlier:

You also made sure to give us a little pontification on how/why/and what zazq was doing while "away". Was it lurking? Wasn't it? You tossed a vote on a guy for just mentioning he was inclined to place a vote on

zazq, now Franzie

.

(bolding mine)

It still is possible that he thought of Flameaxe as zazq's replacement at the time of the first quote, but his comment doesn't make sense even then. A replacement doesn't "return" because he "gets called on it"; it's a person completely new to the game. And there was so much discussion about lurking/inactivity/replacements beforehand that I have a hard time to believe this was an honest mistake on Boggzie's site - especially because he tries to defend it with "I thought Flame was zazq's replacement".
In conclusion, this sounds very much like an made-up argument to me. All in all, Boggzie looks very scummy.

Now Wolfbullet enters the game. In his first analysis post he dissents from Boggzie in that he doesn't think that Boggzie's top-suspects N-N and Flameaxe are mafia. Mcpaltp seems okay at that moment, and Franzie and coxy/martini are his top-suspects, in this order. Still, coxy/martini receives his vote (because Boggzie has been accused of defending coxy? - I ask here if I understand your reasoning correctly).

Wb, where did you get the impression that Franzie stuck up for coxy?

After Mcpaltp and N-N point out

that WB is trying to make nice right now. He is fingering the two largest targets (besides himself) as probable scum and dropping Boggzie's accusations,

, Wb develops his case against Mcpaltp. I think his main arguments are:
- Mcpaltp's "accidental" third vote on zazq
- the vote-change from Flameaxe to Boggzie, claiming that Boggzie was his main suspect before, without any proof for that claim
- Mcpaltp being on the Flameaxe wagon, maybe leaving it because coxy was inactive and couldn't vote

Wb, while I find esp. the second argument very convincing, I'm not so sure about the third. You say:

Had a vote on Flameaxe when it was 3 although he was the one to withdraw it.

But you don't mention that his vote was in fact the first vote, and that he gave a reason for withdrawing his vote, namely Flameaxe being at L-1.

....

Damn. I know I'm to slow.

[Flameaxe]

Meh, it's not really that you are too slow, it's that others are impatient and too quick.

[Selande]

Since I used the last hours to type the above, I decided to post it when I saw that a lynch had happened (I used the "Display posts by" function and so didn't notice earlier).

Although it's kind of pointless now, my top-suspects would have been Wolfbullet and mcpaltp, but I didn't think that both of them are scum.

(I didn't see a ban of twilight talk in the rules.)

[Franzie]

Although it's kind of pointless now, my top-suspects would have been Wolfbullet and mcpaltp, but I didn't think that both of them are scum.

Given MC Palty's recent behavior, I have to agree with this. Hence my action. Here's hopin he's scum.

[Franzie]

Also, Flameaxe, my dear boy, isn't it odd for you to be preaching caution? You of the blazing guns?

Apologies for double post. If you know anything about Guitar Hero 3, TTFAF is destroying my mind currently. But not earlier, just for the current double post.

[Flameaxe]

Also, Flameaxe, my dear boy, isn't it odd for you to be preaching caution? You of the blazing guns?

Uhm, I'm not the one who just quickhammered when a lynch wasn't really in order. You could have AT LEAST let him comment like HE SAID HE WOULD.

I know you really wanna talk in private and be all cool with your night choice, but did ya really need to make it THIS obvious? It makes teh game not fun.

[Franzie]

I know you really wanna talk in private and be all cool with your night choice, but did ya really need to make it THIS obvious? It makes teh game not fun.

This makes me giggle.

Why would you take him to L-1 if you didn't mean for him to be lynched? You should only take someone to L-1 if you're willing to see them go down. Also, everyone else seemed sure but you. Everyone posting recently, anyway. Including mcpaltp himself. And with most of us fairly sure about this (including you), why are you upset with this?

[Flameaxe]

For the second time this game, pressure. If you read my vote post (which you quoted, so I know you did) you would know this. I'm upset because retards like you decide to rush a hammer that really isn't needed. Hell, you didn't even let Selande finish catching up, or even let MC Paltap be useful like he said he would.

You have a lot to learn about this game. Putting someone at L-1 can be used SO many different ways. Hammering someone can be used one way, lynching someone and ending the conversation that is going on.

[Mr. Flay]

Noob question but are allowed to post in twilight?

Yes, but only until I get here.

Final Vote Count of Day One:

mcpaltp - 4 (Wolfbullet, NabakovNabakov, Flameaxe, Franzie)

Not Voting - 3 (martini, mcpaltp, Selande)

---

mcpaltp's blood pressure rose and rose as the interrogations built, until he flipped out and caused the group to pull the noose tight around his neck. In the final reckoning, though, he was nothing but an overexcited citizen of Smallburg...

mcpaltp, Townie, was lynched Day One.

It is now Night One; any/all night actions are due to me by the end of Wednesday, Nov. 14th

, though we may dawn earlier if they're all in.

[Mr. Flay]

Flameax's hot temper led him to scream and shout toward the end of the first day of your ordeal, but no one heard a thing when his home was broken into and torched overnight. In the morning, with the volunteer fire department looking on helplessly, you discover that his name was a bitter irony...

Flameaxe, Townie, was killed Night One.

It is now Day Two; with five alive, just three votes will be needed to lynch.

[Flameaxe]

BAH, GO TOWN!

[Franzie]

Don't have much time now (I'm late for university) but I investigated NabNab overnight and he came up scum.

Vote: NabakovNabakov

If there's a doc, now's a good time to think about protecting me.

Also, that's a mildly amusing kill...our good mod is apparently a joker. Too bad he was just a vanilla townie though.

[mcpaltp]

Bah, don't let my death be in vain!

[Wolfbullet]

"Bloody hell he was town...what a complete prat." I am stunned. The scum must have been over the moon when I put a decent case against another townie and then on top of that he responds like an idiot. I forgive you mcpaltp if you forgive me.

Flameaxe would have been an interesting choice apart from the fact that his small confrontation at the end of day 1 with Franzie is why he is dead.

Franzie you are obviously scum.

You anti-bused (is that a term?) mcpaltp. You quicklynched him when you had a chance. You night killed Flameaxe cause he was on your case about the lynching. Your now claiming cop except if you were a cop then the smartest person to investigate would have been me considering I put the case against mcpaltp together. You are hoping to draw any real cops out for your partner to night kill and if there are none then it puts you in a stronger position.

I gotta say congrats to your partner. I'm gonna have to re-read the topic but at the moment I ain't got a clue who it is. You could just be bussing NN or not. martini and Selande are both equal candidates at the moment.

You are scum though so

vote Franzie

.

[Selande]

Obligatory lylo-warning:
If we lynch town now, we will loose. And as only three votes are needed for a lynch, the two scum can pile on a single vote, if a townie gets one from another townie.

So Wolfbullet, please unvote for now.

That said, I'm not sure if I believe Franzie's cop-claim. His hammer-vote on McPaltp looks extremely scummy.

Franzie, a question for you:
Why did you choose to investigate N-N? Have you considered other candidates? If yes, who? And why did you decide not to investigate them?

[martini]

Franzie you are obviously scum.

I think too.

Don't have much time now (I'm late for university) but I investigated NabNab overnight and he came up scum.

Vote: NabakovNabakov

If there's a doc, now's a good time to think about protecting me.

Also, that's a mildly amusing kill...our good mod is apparently a joker.

Too bad he was just a vanilla townie though.

Is this about the NK ? Scum!

[Wolfbullet]

So Wolfbullet, please unvote for now.

I no longer need to.

If I were wrong and Franzie was the cop then I know that it would be between you, martini and NN as the scum. You did not vote against him and neither did martini. That means your either his partner or town because at least one of you along with NN would have to vote and try for a quicklynch if he were a cop.

Either way though it proves that Franzie is scum.

I'd like to hear a bit more on each persons thoughts on Franzie if thats okay. Mine are in my previous post.

[NabakovNabakov]

From my view, I don't need a case on Franzie. I know for certain that he is a lair. If I wasn't so strapped for time in RL, I would put together a case to convince others right now.

I won't vote now, because I would like to hear more from the various players while they are still in the dark. Selande's ly-lo warning is not entirely unwarranted, but I generally find that its the scum who show the most "caution" in LyLo, and I have used the "One wrong lynch and we lose" argument to get the heat off scumbuddies (and myself) while playing as scum. Scum are also more likely to be "unsure" of claims, especially if its obvious they're not sticking. Selande's questions are leading questions. They give Franzie a second chance.

I doubt that WolfBullet is scum, unless that particuarly long night was used to plan a major gambit. Martini appears to piggyback on WB's sentiments, but takes no action further. His last line is petty and could be distancing.

Respond.

[Selande]

N-N, of course, if you are town, you would know for certain that Franzie is lying. But even though I'm more inclined not to believe Franzie's claim, I can't be sure, so I ask questions to hear more from him and help me decide.

and I have used the "One wrong lynch and we lose" argument to get the heat off scumbuddies (and myself) while playing as scum.

Well, that may be a good tactic, but in most newbie games I read on this site, this warning was routinely given - I think it's generally advisable for town to be cautious in this situation, because a false vote can loose us the game.

Scum are also more likely to be "unsure" of claims

Why? Okay, you may have a point as all but me seem to be very certain. But you know for sure, one way or the other, and if you are town, one of martini and Wolfbullet also knows and is sacrificing a partner.

If I were wrong and Franzie was the cop then I know that it would be between you, martini and NN as the scum. You did not vote against him and neither did martini. That means your either his partner or town because at least one of you along with NN would have to vote and try for a quicklynch if he were a cop.

True. But from my point of view, it's also possible that you are scum.

[Franzie]

First, to answer the most popular question, I investigated dear Nabakov because I had had a chance to look back through the last few pages while there was some downtime and I saw that he had been gently pushing us towards voting mcpaltp. He wasn't making any big accusatory posts, he wasn't shouting, he was just quietly pushing us towards lynching somebody that he obviously knew was town, and a scummy acting town too, what luck for you!

Yes, today is LYLO. Which is why I wanted to claim outright instead of trying to gently steer the conversation...and risk looking like NabNab. Yes, this makes me a target tomorrow, but there's a 50% chance that there's a dr. in our game, and I felt that that would help me not get killed, or at least confuse the heck out of Nab's partner when it comes down to who to kill.

I did NOT investigate Wolfbullet because I felt that he was mostly good-intentioned towards the end of yesterday...he seems to have been genuinely convinced, and in a series of long posts, he tried outright to convince us to vote for mcpaltp (including one post where he blatantly asks someone to hammer). I felt that I should investigate someone more sneakily scummy (to my senses) than someone who could either be bad scum or just overzealous town.

I don't feel like I need to respond to Nabakov...by attacking everybody who's posted anything so far in post 293, he's sowing confusion and trying to get us to vote for each other to get the pressure off of him. Do notice that he attacks Selande and martini, but not WolfBullet...which, I think, may conveniently divide the town into the correct groups. I can't be sure of that, though, he might be bussing one of the two that he grouped with me while trying to make it look like Wolfy is his scum partner. My jury is still out on Wolfbullet, I'm really split 50/50 on him.

Looking back, I see another question, from Selande about why I hammered mcpaltp. I think we can all agree that he looked incredibly scummy, even to the point of (metaphorically) jumping up and down and saying "Look, I'm town! Look, I'm town!" and he was saying it so much, I felt like he was in denial. That, combined with all of his absurdities in the posts on page 11 made me want him gone.

TTFN, I'm sure there will be more to say shortly. Today has seen a lot of posts, I like that.

[Wolfbullet]

True. But from my point of view, it's also possible that you are scum.

Also true but that is the flipside of nearly everything in the game. If I am scum though it is impossible for me to lynch without a town vote so there is still no need for me to move the vote.

As Selande said we all seem to think Franzie is scum to one degree or another. I think the rather long night may have been for plans involving Franzie to get bussed.

Selande is the semi-obvious (too obvious?) choice as scumbuddy. Is not as certain as the rest of us. Playing safely.

martini didn't say a hell of a lot. NN is right when he said he pretty much piggybacked me. He was one of my choices as scum back when I first replaced.

NN I'm honestly not sure about. Franzies cop/investigation claim was such a bad move that the scum must have known that it would not work. The only reason I could see to attempt it would be to try and do some bussing. Franzie gets lynched his victm/partner drops any heat. Franzie is really pushing the bus on NN in that last post. It'd be just my luck if Boggzie was right from the start.

[NabakovNabakov]

He wasn't making any big accusatory posts, he wasn't shouting, he was just quietly pushing us towards lynching somebody that he obviously knew was town, and a scummy acting town too, what luck for you!

That

Or:

Looks like somebody took a crap on a plate and is trying to serve it as the main course. That's not just because it's giberish, it's because a joke invovling giberish is the best you can do. Wolfbullet's argument is reasonable. There are some important questions in there for you to answer, and good answers might have made me less suspicious. Instead, we get two major changes of tack (from low-key wagoning to flattery to nonsense) in the space of a page.

Vote: mcpaltap

Additional note, paltap has been pressuring to end the day. Usually, I dismiss things like that as impatience or newbosity, but it's been concerted, acted upon (as in he votes for the player most likely to be lynched to end the day faster), and only serves to compound the evidence against him.

But seriously dude, if you are town why are you "Trying to hard [to be scummy]"? That seems horribly and intentionally counterproductive. The way you've acted so far doesn't look like town giving up to me, looks like scum. (a.k.a. If anybody's trying to sow confusion, it's you)

Not only is what you're saying outright

wrong

, it's based on poor premise. I tend to be a fairly level headed player. My cases don't come with a whole lot of spittle or brimstone (and actually, those couple of posts might be as worked up as I've been in the thread so far). What exactly is it about a well reasoned case that makes it scummier than an impassioned case again?

A few more things:
1) Your justification for hammering paltap is more retroactive, wagony bullshit.
2) Where did you get the impression that I'm sowing confusion and attempting to split the vote. My vote will be right on you once I'm good and ready, I'm just seeing if your scumbuddy will catch him/herself for us.

I'm fairly confident that Selande is #2, but I wouldn't rule Martini out. I would like the lurker to speak before I give him a chance to hammer.

@Wolfbullet: I honestly don't know what Franzie and co were thinking when they decided to fake the investigation on me. I'm also not going to try to figure it out, WIFOM is a harsh mistress. I'm not asking for any sort of "confirmed town" status after we lynch Franzie (and I won't be giving the same to you either), I'm just interested in lynching obvscum.

[Wolfbullet]

I'm posting for the sake of posting. Come on folks its not hard to read the topic once a day and post. If you wait around it just means more to read when you do come back and you annoy all the active players. We got a good amount of posts on Thursday and then nothing for what would be over a day and a half if I wasn't posting this.

martini I think we are waiting on you to post something in your own words which not a giant quote with I agree next to it.

[martini]

martini I think we are waiting on you to post something in your own words which not a giant quote with I agree next to it.

sorry I couldn't access the pc for the last two days but I'm back here
for some reason mafia games need more time of your life than I expected

Well.. I think it's quite obvious franzie is scum.
Yesterday (day 1) he buddied up with mcpaltp, and then suddenly lynched him.
today he claims cop with a guilty investigation on someone that seemed quite town.
For the rest, I think nabakov and wolfbullet have seemed less scummy than franzie throughout the game.
yes, I will

vote: Franzie