Mini 443 - Tapioca Mafia - Game over!!


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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 11:12 am

Post by Ripley »

I've been puzzled by d&p's posting over the past few days.

There were quite a few posts made last Sunday and Monday directly concerning d&p himself:

Post 197 (MF) is a substantial post devoted entirely to an analysis of d&p's own posts.

Post 207 - this is where Earwig first raises the idea of MF and d&p making veiled scum communications. Several of the following posts refer to this, Post 218, by Khelvaster, I'd have expected especially to be of great interest to d&p, suggesting as it does that a vig should kill d&p if MF turned up scum.

How does d&p react to all this? He decides to postpone any response until after he has been through the entire game, post by post. Aimee had already done this, in a giant post that went back over posts 47-164. Many people had already responded to her post in detail. I will confess here to being somewhat less than thrilled to find d&p using Aimee's post as the basis for yet more massively detailed analysis of these early pages. The terrible prospect of a third player using d&p's analysis for a basis of a still
more
detailed analysis seemed quite real, and I seriously doubt that I would have the stamina for that.

This process takes him some days, and the posts he really should be dealing with become more and more out of date. He seems at one stage to acknowledge the problem:
d&p wrote:Can't help wondering whether I'm falling further behind or catching up.
.. but carries on regardless, working his way through every single word of Aimee's megapost until post 129, at which point, for reasons not given, he abruptly abandons the exercise. (This is shortly before the bandwagon on Earwig got going.)

He finally comments on the issue of collaboration with MF, but apparently only does so because the issue has just been raised again:
d&p wrote:I find it ridiculous that I've been called on again to knock this down, after MF already has.
I don't think he has ever dealt with post 197. Maybe there are some responses buried in his long posts.

d&p reaches a conclusion and decides to vote beanbagboy. His reasoning:
d&p wrote:BBB: for all the times he has just made stuff up about players. He clearly thinks he doesn't need to read. He has thrown all sorts of aspersions around and hasn't backed down when challenged. He has consistently misrepresented what other people have said about him and themselves. He has mixed up the chain of events to defend himself or his arguments. Kab said he thought he was overeager. Eager players read, imo.
I would have found it considerably more helpful to have been given a summary list of all the occasions where d&p thinks BBB has committed these crimes. Just a few words on each. It looks as if I have to go through his posts, wading through unrelated material, to find them.

I'm aware of two possible examples: the whole "BBB singles out Coppelia for voting Khelvaster" thing and all the related subplots about whether Khelvaster was inconsistent and whether third votes are scummy. All this has been covered exhaustively. Maybe that's why I feel it may have been blown out of proportion. And this:
d&p wrote:
Aimee wrote:Also incidentally, maybe this is through lack of sleep, but when did MightyFireBall start the wagon? If he did, I apologise
He didn’t. BBB just made it up.
I've tried to find what this was about. I think d&p means where BBB says this:
BBB wrote:Even more incriminating, IMO. He asks MF for a reason, MF points out he started the frigging wagon, and d8p says that that's not good enough. Nuh-unh. That doesn't fly.
I think what happened here is BBB misinterpreting MF's post 119:
MF wrote:D8p, I did indeed make the first analysis of Khelvaster's post in which he incriminated pickemgenius.
If not, could somebody please tell me what BBB is supposed to have made up? And actual references to the other places where he's cast aspersions, misrepresented people, made stuff up etc?

A couple of final thoughts:

Aimee: your analysis has been very useful, but can I suggest that if you do similar analyses in future, you put the post number at the beginning of each paragraph? It would barely take any more time, and would make the material massively easier to manage later.

I think there's a danger, in this game, that we'll not only miss the wood for the trees, but we'll be so busy microanalysing the leaves we won't even see the trees.
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 11:44 am

Post by beanbagboy »

:goodposting: Also, I don't know if that was intentional, but you refer to d8p as d&p everytime.

Yeah, I think that's where it comes from.
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 12:01 pm

Post by Ripley »

beanbagboy wrote::goodposting: Also, I don't know if that was intentional, but you refer to d8p as d&p everytime.
Ouch, you're right. Apologies, d8p. The annoying thing is a couple of times I typed an 8 and actually erased it because I'd managed to convince myself it was wrong. And at the start I thought Shanba was Shariba. I need to change my font size or something...
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 12:04 pm

Post by beanbagboy »

LOL. It's k, we forgive you.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 2:07 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

kabenon007 wrote:Khelvaster, the only ones who have a lynching agenda are mafia, because no townie would have preset ideas about whole lines of people who they think are scum. Much more information is given out when the first person is lynched, and even more when the second is lynched. We can observed who defended who, or who laid back instead of defending. We need to have a lynch 1 before we should even think about L2 and 3.
vote Khelvaster
I really wish people would read my posts fully, instead of cherry picking. I put in the caveat,
Khelvaster wrote: My agenda right now,
until I am convinced otherwise,
is a D1 lynching of MF, a D2 lynching of d8p, and a D3 lynching of Earwig.
It is perfectly reasonable that, if you find one person to be mafia, thus confirming at least part of your suspected mafia family, you'd want to do something about the other two. However, if something unexpected happens, such as if MF turns out to be townie, or if d8p or Earwig are NK'd, to name a couple of scenarios, I would have to rethink who was mafia.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 2:12 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

Oh my...Regarding post 269, it seems I posted a paragraph or two of d8p's out of quotes, and for no reason relating to the rest of my post. That was a technical error, and seems to only confuse people-- ignore the following from my post:

[quote]
It looked like
I think the real question here is why you think you should pursue a defense against someone else's uncorroborated speculation, especially since that's impossible to defend against. What should I undermine? The reliability of Earwig's hunches? I'm afraid I haven't seen enough of those to comment.

Having said that, for me there are five main suspects. Setting questions of inexperience aside, in order of most suspicious to ...less :

BBB: for all the times he has just made stuff up about players. He clearly thinks he doesn't need to read. He has thrown all sorts of aspersions around and hasn't backed down when challenged. He has consistently misrepresented what other people have said about him and themselves. He has mixed up the chain of events to defend himself or his arguments. Kab said he thought he was overeager. Eager players read, imo.[/quote
Lag actually does exist in real life. For proof, look no further than Jesus: When he died, it took him three *days* to respawn.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by beanbagboy »

Oh, wow, now I need to reread that. :shock:
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 3:08 pm

Post by beanbagboy »

Ok. First, the Unvote FOS thing means "Well, alright Pajama Sam, you can go, but I've got my eye on you..." (lol 10 points if you know the reference)

As a rule, don't say "after we lynch X, we should get Y" because all kind of things could happen to change your mind. I think you meant that, but it didn't really come out that way.

This is considered more acceptable:
These are the people I find scummy (from most to least, in order):
Scum
Scummy townie
Fairly scummy townie
Confusing Townie
Really excellent Scum
Myself
...or something to that effect.
that way, you communicate who you think is scummy without imposing agendas like that.

Speaking of which...
Beanbagboy
Khelvaster/Earwig
d8p
MightyFireball
Shanba (for not posting)
Shadyforce
Aimee
Bobness/Kabenon
Ripley/PickEmGenius

..from most to least scummy. I do find myself the most scummy. Doesn't everyone?
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 3:16 pm

Post by MightyFireball »

d8p, it seems you must have supported George Bush in the 2004 elections.
I just thought that was really funny, so I decided to quote it. :)

Khel, regarding your agenda of lynches, I acknowledge that you said that you're willing to be convinced against the agenda, but having a definate one in place seems a little too concrete to me. I would assume that most people don't even make lynching agendas becaue they acknowledge that so much more information will be gathered on following days. To me, setting up that agenda seems like you're not going to be as open to that information on upcoming days. That would probably lead to less discussion on your part, which is certainly anti-town.
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 7:51 pm

Post by Aimee »

Oh my goodness, lots has gone on! Of course, I will have to defend some things, and answer some things (rest assured, not all of d8P's posts). Re-read in progress.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 7:53 pm

Post by Aimee »

Mod:
Can we get a prod on Shanba?
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Thu May 24, 2007 8:03 pm

Post by Ectomancer »

Aimee wrote:
Mod:
Can we get a prod on Shanba?
prod sent
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 3:42 am

Post by MightyFireball »

I don't completely get WIFOM, but is it possible that BBB's continued repetition that he is scum kind of WIFOM? If it's not, then it's at least a form of reverse pshycology. Anyone have thoughts on that?
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 3:51 am

Post by kabenon007 »

Yeah, I was kind of pondering that as well, but it's not so much WIFOM because he is more using it as humor, not as a logical defense. I believe WIFOM is more often used in defense, but if I'm wrong someone please let me know... it's only my opinion.
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 3:52 am

Post by Shanba »

Prodded. I promise I'll actually contribute something to this game soon. I've overestimated how much I can take on and this game has been somewhat de-prioirtized for me with lots of other games that have turned into lurkfests.
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 4:40 am

Post by Ectomancer »

On the lynching block today:

voting: 10/12


Khelvaster
(4)
- pickemgenius, Shanba, beanbagboy, kabenon007
MightyFireball (1) - Khelvaster
d8P (1) - MightyFireball
Earwig (3) - Ripley, shadyforce, Aimee
beanbagboy (1) - d8P


not voting: 2/12


Coppélia
Earwig



With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 7:41 am

Post by Copp├â┬®lia »

Khelvaster wrote: I really wish people would read my posts fully, instead of cherry picking. I put in the caveat,
MF has said exactly want I wanted to say to this.

No one cherry picked your posts. The very caveat you point to suggests that you have already closed your mind to other options- several players are telling you why this is a bad idea. On top of that, the avenue of thought you've chosen is a bad one, and several players have told you why on that count, as well. I don't like how overdefensive you are when someone questions you, especially when the questions are very valid ones.

If you were a more experienced player, your recent behavior would already have me voting for you. My feeling on you right now is that you're newbie town, not newbie scum, but your position as new to the game isn't going to excuse every suspicious action you make for very much longer.

As for the actual content of your posts, here's my thoughts on your suspect list:

BBB: Totally possible. There has been some convienent mixups, and misrepresentations happening. I know Beeb to be a very good player- an unorthodox one that thinks out of the box. (This is my response to the call for thoughts on BBB's calling himself scum, btw). However, I haven't seen any solid case built on him yet, including your own and d8p's. I'm keeping my mind completely open as far as he's concerned.

Earwig: He has started posting more, but I'm not greatly impressed by the content of his posts. I still don't agree with his logic in the d8p MF pair. He's high on my list of suspicious players.

Shanba: Unfortunately, I find it hard to get a read on Shanba with so few posts. I appreciate you owning up to biting off more than you can chew, Shanba, but if you're not going to be able to particpate in the game more in the future I wish you'd consider replacing out. If you are going to stay, I'd like to hear more about what you think about the other players.

d8p: Not seeing your reasoning here at all. If this is it:
You seem to believe anyone who changes their mind after listening to a logical argument is "flighty," and therefore is hiding something.
I don't find that true, or a strong case at all.

vote: Earwig
. I'd like to hear some analysis from you on the other players.
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 8:45 am

Post by Khelvaster »

Coppélia wrote:
No one cherry picked your posts. The very caveat you point to suggests that you have already closed your mind to other options- several players are telling you why this is a bad idea.
I put in the caveat that this was my agenda provided no information to the contrary showed up. If I had made a list saying,

my top 3 scummish at the moment
---
1. MightyFireball
2. d8p
3. Earwig

that would have had the exact same meaning as saying that my agenda is a d1 MF lynch, d2 d8p lynch, and d3 earwig lynch, and that this is subject to change if any new information that suggest something else surfaces.
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:05 am

Post by kabenon007 »

No, being suspicious and wanting to see someone lynched are two entirely different things.

Oof, and I'm sorry to have to do this to you guys, but
mod: can I get a replacement for myself?


I am going on a trip on which I thought I would have internet access, but I was just told that I won't be able to check as often as is fair to you guys, so I need to ask for a replacement. I know, I know, you guys will all be grief-stricken, in fact, you probably won't even be able to finish the game... but I want you to carry on! Kill the scum! I hope I can play with you guys again in the future.
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:06 am

Post by kabenon007 »

This is my last post. Don't cry for me... Argentina... I don't know the rest of the song, so... adios!
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:36 am

Post by Aimee »

kabenon007 wrote:This is my last post. Don't cry for me... Argentina... I don't know the rest of the song, so... adios!
:( Kabenon! :( We'll miss you! If you are by any chance still here... where are you going?
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:46 am

Post by kabenon007 »

I am to be a part of a traveling singing group called Celebration Iowa. We travel around the state of Iowa and sing at all the fairs, finishing off at the state fair, should be fun! I play the jazz trumpet for it!
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:49 am

Post by pickemgenius »

Bye bye kabenon007!

Have a good time!


Hope the replacement is good!
Show
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STREAMING:

www.twitch.tv/xxxpickemgenius
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 9:58 am

Post by kabenon007 »

Okay, my final analysis... :cry:

Aimee-extremely protown, but she is very experienced, could be a front :wink:
beanbagboy- a fun guy to be playing with, even if he is scum :wink: He doesn't appear scummy to me, just overeager.
Coppélia- Her analysis is very good, and she knows a lot about the game, but she doesn't strike me as scum, but she is very good, who knows?
d8P-Defends himself well, doesn't seem overly defensive, which is something I find scummy.
Earwig- I think Earwig is scum due to his lurking while posting elsewhere, and then I found that he tended to i
kabenon007- oh, a townie through and through!
Khelvaster- um, yeah, I think he is scum as well, because he eliminates the possibility of gaining information from a lynch in his lynch calendar. And, in my opinion, only scum sit at home and go : "Hm, today I think I'll lynch this guy, tomorrow this one..." haha, a joke, I kid the Khelvaster!
MightyFireball- Hmm, couldn't get much of a read on him. He struck as pro-town, but I really have no read on him. If you're scum, you fooled me.
pickemgenius- Not much of a say here. I feel his is town. He's either town, or a very good scum.
Ripley- Ripley is full of good information. Even if he is scum, in this game he has been providing good information, which helps the town out anyway.
shadyforce- He was gone for a while, so not much on him.
Shanba- Shanba... was not gone, but due to lack of posts, no read. Oh, his avatar is creepy! Scummm!!!!
I put the "laughter" in manslaughter.
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Fri May 25, 2007 10:05 am

Post by beanbagboy »

MF has been lurking, but that last post is something I agree with. You know what? I'm not following the crowd, yes, MF hasn't contributed much but I always feel that suspicious people are suspicious, but quiet people aren't suspicious. They're just quiet.

@Aimee: Yeah, I know, sometimes it feels like it's too much... I don't mind, though.

@MF: No, that I'm scummy thing is a joke. I do think I must look scummy to you guys, though, I'm always afraid of looking scummy.

@Shanba: Yes, thanks for owning up, sure, we understand.

Also, in response to Kabenon's question, I wouldn't ever use that as a gambit. That really only applies to anyone if it's like "well, I said that, but who would say that as scum?" or: "sure, fine, I'm scum. then lynch me!"

@Bob: Agreed.

Rethought Suspect List:
BBB (scum)
Khelvaster (very suspicious)
Earwig (pretty suspicious)
d8p (suspicious)
Aimee (Sort of suspicious, more of a neutral than anything else.)
MightyFireball (Lurky, but prob prob prob prob prob town)
*ShadyForce (should he get a prod?)
*Shanba
Kabenon (Probably probably probably probably town.)
PickEmGenius (Probably probably probably town)
Bob (Probably probably town)
Ripley (probably Town)
Ectomancer (Town)

Asterisks indicate that they haven't posted enough for me to really analyze. They fall straight in the middle for lack of a better place. More probablys dilute it.

Also, good luck Kabenon!
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