Mini 803 - Pale Moon Risin' (Over!)

[mykonian]

"Spaghetti strategy" is not just a scum strategy. That's how I like to scumhunt. I am throwing accusations around to see what sticks, but apparently not in the way you're thinking, I'm not seeing which of my cases sticks with town, I'm seeing what reactions my accusations are getting.

post 109. that was already page 5... still before my vote, but after I got suspicious.

okay... I didn't see that point that pointing out such a softclaim could be an excuse to vote... It is kind of a null-tell, esspecially seen the way porkens did it.

[LlamaFluff]

LlamaFluff:

A lot of his posts have been giving me the hives actually. I already commented on his early posts where he seemed to be giving mykonian some flak but then suddenly went to being a mykonian-fanboy just because "he was thinking the same thing about Zilla" <-- this switch just doesn't feel natural to me. I'd think an LF-town might show more leeriness towards mykonian.

I just have somewhat of a gut read that myk is town. There is not a whole lot to back it up. Its just a mix of my gut scummy reads and him having a similar read.

Also his recent post about Porkens strikes me as really weird too -- he seems to have a lot of negative to say about the claim but then concludes that he "sees basically no was Porkens is scum". Also, since his unvote of Zilla, he hasn't really commented on anyone or anything aside from Porkens citing that he'd like to see more from some other people. There's plenty of stuff going on right now; any thoughts on that?

I disagree with how its used, thats not something that makes him someone to lynch, just reckless. I still kind of want him to roleclaim though. With a role more descriptive then "mafia" shown already, something just flipping "One shot day vig" is odd.

Working on other stuff though, Zazie kind of disappearing slows it down though. At this point though im not going to be voting myk or zilla though.

@VP - Why myk over Zilla?

[VP Baltar]

Zilla's reason for voting mykonian struck me as being more sound, actually, since I agree that it really did appear as though mykonian was kinda sitting the fence a bit at first with regards to what he thought about Zilla.

Here is everything Zilla said to justify her vote:

I really don't like his stance here, I'm thinking his reluctance to commit to a vote on me is because he knows that this case leads to a mislynch and he can't quite bring himself to commit to it on such shaky logic. I also didn't like his 48 unbidden defense of Porkens.

I would have been fine if Zilla attacked mykon over his

reasons

for attacking her. Those were weak and largely unstated at that point, but she votes him over a perceived "reluctance to commit to a vote". Weak sauce. She tacks on his defense of Porkens. I'm curious, do you think that was a good reason as well?

re: connecting players. Ok, I can see where you see the difference between what I did and what you did. I would like to say, however, that the case I made on mykon is not 100% built on the premise that Zilla is scum. Even if you take her out of the equation as scum in that case, I make points for mykon being scummy.

Doesn't that suggest that you support both of their lynches today? I don't see what you're arguing here.

You were making it out that I supported their lynches equally, which is not true. The point I was making about Zilla's wagon being the leading one at the time is this: why would I, as scum, not vote for Zilla's wagon that was gaining steam when it wouldn't have been suspicious at all to do so? Even though mykon was second wagon, wouldn't the obvious play there for scum have been to go after the wagon most likely to lynch in the shortest possible time?

That's all wifom, of course, but so was your point, so I think it's fair to consider.

The people who have commented on LF have mentioned nothing about "him appearing very pro-town here therefore he's likely scum". You yourself just said that I raised some decent points against him -- why do you believe people are suspicious of him here because he appears pro-town here?

When did I say people said him appearing pro-town makes him "likely scum"? I don't appreciate hyperbole much. I just get this air that people don't always read normal pro-town moves made by him to be completely indicative of town-Llama.

For instance, this:

I once saw Llama bus me Day 1 and our other buddy Day 2. He bussed us both extremely hard when nobody else was even suspicious of us until he brought his cases forward.

I also thought I remembered someone joking with him in this game about something along the lines of having a tough time reading him, but I can't seem to find it, so I may be wrong.

[VP Baltar]

@VP - Why myk over Zilla?

Because he hasn't defended the case against him very well, imo. Therefore, I find him more scummy.

[Zilla]

Porkens, don't claim. Mafia doesn't need to know if you're one-shot or not.

FOS: LlamaFluff, ZazieR

for trying to get Porkens to claim; what good does that do from a town standpoint? Especially from Llama who says Porkens is likely town.

[Zilla]

I'm growing cool on Mykonian because in Drawn Together, as I was rereading after replacing, I would have lynched him too. He's not a very pro-town player, and he's absolutley horrible at defending himself. His reason for voting me is ridiculous and weak, and I don't see why he's still voting me on that and not looking at anyone else.

The thing about his case is that he's voting STRICTLY based on a meta that he doesn't understand, saying that apparently I'm scum because, as scum, I also said "I do this as town" (I don't know what "this" is in his case).

KMD has it right in that my meta is inconclusive. That's what I aim for. Mykonian evidently hasn't looked at my town games with context, which tells me he's either being extremely lazy or he thinks he can get away with his shoddy case.

I definately do not like Llama's position. He says he's "working on something." Where? I don't see it.

He also demands a fullclaim from porkens because mafia flipped a power role. What? This makes me equally suspicious. I understand part of his reasoning, but firstly, as my last post says, we don't need any of this information from Porkens, and I can only see his fullclaim helping scum. THAT is rolefishing. THAT is real, true rolefishing, not random-vote-accruing rolefishing.

I'm also not liking ZazieR, and I think I'm going to bring up her "I'm switching to Mykonian" post and show where she puts me at unease.

I don't like Incognito's justification that my calling out of Porkens' softclaim was "either town or ballsy scum." Personally, I was unnerved that nobody said anything about it, because if he went to the trouble to soft-claim in the first place, I would think scum would be the ones paranoid to say anything about it because they would want to pretend to be oblivious to the soft-claim so they can't be linked to his death later. This means that my post, in my mind, was a move more likely to be made by town anyway, and the ducking was in reference to Talhundir's (whatever that name is) tell about commenting on recent events.

So, Incog, your view into my mindset is wrong.

[Zilla]

Ah, I wandered away from my views on Mykonian before wrapping up.

Basically, I don't like how easy the swing was. Not that it was ESPECIALLY easy, but I don't like ZazieR and Llama's positions, for different reasons.

I don't think ZazieR's vote on Mykonian is serious, it looks faked. I don't like Llama saying he supports neither, on shaky ground. These two things, coupled with Mykonian's penchant for being horrible at defending himself, make me suspect that he might be town after all.

Mykonian, get your act together and either read my meta in the right context (namely, read a game that I didn't replace into, or read the last two days of Drawn Together when we weren't being led by power-roles, etc.) or find something else to attack with, because if you're town, I won't forgive you.

Now, ZazieR's post:

[LlamaFluff]

@VP - Why myk over Zilla?

Because he hasn't defended the case against him very well, imo. Therefore, I find him more scummy.

So someones summiness depends on how well they defend their case?

[Plum]

I'm sorry; I've basically been kicked off the computer for the night. I've been busy and less prolific, post-wise, than would be ideal anyway (have been busy). Again, many apologies, hopefully I'll get some good strong posting together tomorrow to make up for this.

[Zilla]

... wrong person. It was plum I was thinking of. ZazieR, however, should have had enough time to judge if her suspect has been continuing to do what she thinks that person was doing, and should come out with whatever accusation she has or has had ready.

Now Plum...

Guess what time it is? Yes - reread and analysis post time.

Mykonian

Has gotten a lot of attention recently, and in any case even in my brief look-through yesterday gave me stuff to raise my eyebrows at. In fact, I'm going to go through the game (it's still short enough and not too dense) and note any unusual things about him, yeah? Also early cases made etc.

Myk, why didn't you place a random vote?

@ All: Is not casting a random vote more or less suspect than casting a random vote without jokey reasoning provided? Also, does anyone know if Myk has a history of avoiding voting in the random stage at all?

Actually, Myk, I've learned that not voting can be a pretty decent scumtell, and, all things considered, Zilla's Page 4 case and vote on you were not bunk. Reluctance to commit to a vote is a legit scumtell, and Zilla's extrapolated reasons for why scum-Myk would do that are reasonable.

I believe this point is fine and justified, though not enough to make a case.

Then you have no dispute with me and my argument is completely valid.

you think so? Random votes don't say a lot, and are "flushed away" by all the other votes.

You say I'm scared to vote.

I say a vote isn't much use now.

I can't be scared, as votes aren't very much checked in the RVS. They don't say a lot. But if they don't say a lot, why would you vote?

Please show me, how you think your argument could be valid...

I have seen scum reluctant to commit to votes when they had even very minor suspicions (or in the RVS . . . damn, I'm going to check your stupid meta myself. Happy now??? All right, I've seen you do the normal random vote stuff and the voting when things got modestly serious stuff.

Why did you not in this game???

).

Mykonian, you're claiming two things at once. You're saying you don't want to random vote, and that your vote is "worthless" now, and you alternate between the two, and neither make any sense.

The first makes no sense because it's only random voting if you're doing it for random reasons. If you have a serious reason, it's not a random vote. The second also makes no sense because it shouldn't matter who looks at your vote. It's paranoid scum who worry about how their vote looks.

or town that likes to see what the reaction of scum on a vote is. That won't help if they don't think it is serious

btw, it would be nice if I had a town game of you I could read. Would you have a link?

Addressing the bolded: Not justification. I make random votes and votes on minor points early in the game and I make serious votes too. I look for reactions on all and try to take advantage of all the votes I make in that way, but believe me, when I'm making a serious vote it's clear I'm making a serious vote. I don't need to do away with less serious votes to get that to happen. Regardless, in my brief glance at your meta I haven't seen you shying away from less-than-serious votes.

This is another point that I had already brought up.

This fails the "if everybody did this, would it help town?" test miserably.

Does it matter if a case is weak at this point in the game? A weak case is better than a joke case or no case at all.

SO TRUE.

These too.

I wasn't talking about you... but about charter.

see, I can have this little problem. That I post too much to make the town function. In that game, there was another one that did the same. I think charter enjoyed the show. I didn't like it, and it is not going to happen again.

I'm glad, but you're not helping the town function by not voting or attempting to formulate accusations and cases. By page five you've not done any of this.

SCREW IT; MYKONIAN BECAME MY CLEAR TOP SUSPECT BY POST 116

First you refuse to vote, don't put together much case, etc. as elaborated above. THEN you ask for some Zilla-town meta, then you make a vote based on your view of her town meta vs. her scum meta.

I have seen scum ask for meta (mith's meta!) only to take that and try to twist it into a case.

You're out of luck here, Myk. Wishy-washyness, reluctance to commit to a vote or case, and then

this

vote for this reason . . . my scumdar has made a decisive

bleeeep!

Vote: Mykonian

This is kinda the part that bugs me, in that she votes for Mykonian based entirely on reasons already put foreward by other players. This means she can shift any accountability to the people she followed onto the vote. If she's scum and knows Mykonian is town, this is a safe way to vote a townie.

While I agree with parts of Baltar's case (basically the ones arguing that Myk's reluctance to put a vote on his top suspect, however weak his case on Zilla was, is suspect) I don't see strong enough indication to link them much in my mind - and the fact that you're implying such strong connections before any players have flipped scum (or anything, for that matter) makes gut twitch, and his Post 118 was basically predicated on arguing for this connection.

FOS: VP Baltar

An FOS, also on already-stated analysis. There are no original points made here.

I don't see the appeal for VP Baltar's "Zilla being bussed by mykonian-scum" theory. The fact that he built a complete case against mykonian under the premonition that Zilla is scum is creepy. VP Baltar, do you see mykonian as scummy independent of his interactions of Zilla? Your case only seems to work under the assumption that Zilla is definitely scum here, and we haven't had an alignment flip yet sooo, yeah.

^^ See that.

I move that the bolded is a giant scumslip. If he thought I was scum, he wouldn't say that the point of my case is that "I seriously thought Porkens was rolefishing." If he thought I was scum, it would have been "I was trying to frame Porkens for rolefishing."

Hm. I note this well.

More parroting.

@ Plum

Serious? And what put me on this "list'?

You were my only lead, having done the only really out-of-place, potentially scummy thing to that point, so yes, you got a serious vote. What do you think, I write up unamusing, business-tone sentences backing my point on a vote because I have nothing better to do and no sense of humor to boot? Please . Also, I just meant that my subconscious seems to think you're cool for a reason I don't really know. Consider it a compliment, if you will.

I wanted to see what Plum's reaction was to me saying my Porkens vote wasn't serious, but then a page went by with no plum and tons of people basically making my question lose impact.

Yeah, I was out then. Probably I would have said that your first vote had an arguably decent reason behind it, but a sudden switch to voting someone for a not-serious reason wasn't good, and the fact that the vote looked very much like a serious vote on a baseless accusation was worse.

Answering questions, no scumhunting in this block.

Porkens then asked if I was a doublevoter. That was the reaction I was looking for, and that's why I voted him.

hmm, I guess I'll have to wait for the votecount to see if you're just being silly or not...

I see no asking it you're a doublevoter; I see him noting something he's interested in seeing the conclusion of. That is my problem; the thing you were pouncing on wasn't rolefishing. I don't care whether or not you intended your vote on him to lead to a lynch, because your basis for making that fairly serious accusation was nonexistent.

"Is that a REAL doublevote?" strikes me as worse than, "Are you claiming doublevoter?" The first has a bit of "oh shit" in it.

See the actual Porkens quote I put in above. It's arguably closer to the second phrase you listed, though it's not really either.

Now she addresses my reason for voting Porkens in a manner that is at least partly original thinking. It's a weak accusation, proven based on a faulty premise by my answer, but it's original at least.

3.

Plum

You can't have "lots-o-fun" unless you post more! You are ALSO on Zilla from post 0. hmm.
No read.

I've been busy: parading on Sunday, school play yesterday, etc. Rest assured that I'm having plenty of fun putting together this fairly long post, yar?

@Llama:

When he confirmed that Zilla was his top pick before I made it known who my top pick was, it made me more comfortable with him.

What about the fact that he hadn't voted all game - not even your mutual top pick for scum?

Also brought up before.

Zazie, show up soon .

It's always easy to comment on lurkers.

Zilla, how do you define the term 'rolefishing'?

I didn't see anything come of this.

Gah, I am getting a stupid null-read on Charter.

Also gah: Why am I still getting a strong scumvibe from Llama's Post 105, specifically the fact that he's arguing for the biggest wagon thus far but seems to have believed that the doublevoter fakeclaim looked serious and that Porkens attacked it?

This also strikes me as odd, especially in the way she phrases it. "Why am I still getting a strong scumvibe" dares the player to explain it away, rather than confirm it. I'd say it's a potential slip if Llama is scum.

Kmd: How do you see Mykonian and the case on him. Please, feel your freest to elaborate.

A good point made, but no follow up by Plum.

Charter:

No, I just find it too hard to believe he would make such an obviously poor vote if scum. He's in the same spot if you're town.

I don't like the too dumb to be scum argument .

Also an easy point to make, and I think Incognito was already on him about it.

FOS Plum

Oh hi, I've missed you, too

I was on the verge of making better on my FOS when I saw this, but events of tonight have made me rethink that a bit .

I have to admit that I don't know what she's talking about here.

So, that's what bugged me about Plum's post.

[Zilla]

Woah, I just reread Charter's part in the recently ended Monopoly Mafia, and that paints an entirely different picture of Charter. This tunnelvision is way more like his Family Guy tunneling. In Monopoly, he didn't have blinders on, and even people he said were obv-town (Gamma) ended up on his scum list at the end of the day.

Also important to note, he actually had a scum list, and he actually responded to most players.

In Family Guy, he latched on to Wolframnhart and never let go. Ever. And he said he would make no compromises on that vote.

In the marathon I played with him as town, he played aggressively, but not aboslutely single-minded.

Charter has gone up significantly in scum level.

[Porkens]

I still have warm and fuzzy feelings about Charter from our last game together where he NAILED a well-concealed KMD-scum with his tunnelvision. So I'd hesitate to rely exclusively on his meta for the scum rating.

Porkens, don't claim. Mafia doesn't need to know if you're one-shot or not.

FOS: LlamaFluff, ZazieR

for trying to get Porkens to claim; what good does that do from a town standpoint? Especially from Llama who says Porkens is likely town.

^^^ This.

Zilla, in my opinion, would be worth keeping around today.

[Kmd4390]

You said you were "25% serious" and that you told me you weren't serious just for Plum's reaction.

There is seriousness in your accusation. I don't care how much. It's a serious vote, not a random vote or a joke vote. You told me that it wasn't serious when I asked originally. Then you later said that you told me that to get Plum's reaction.

At the very least, you can admit that you see I was only PARTIALLY serious.

No. Either you are serious or you are joking. You weren't joking.

It doesn't matter if you are "wrong". It's that you would consider his actions to be fishing when that's obviously not what he was doing.

this is scummy how?

Because you are painting townie actions as scummy. He obviously wasn't fishing. He was asking for clarification which was a good thing.

Lolwut?

You said you were looking for Plum's reaction.

Yet again, this is scummy how?

Looking for reactions isn't a reason to lie about your vote.

And this is scummy how?

Well, ignoring the fact that you are now denying the seriousness of it, it's scummy because it's very rare that a vote can have a gray area as far as how serious it is. Either you are jokevoting or your vote is serious.

Even you have to know how weak this is, which makes me wonder why you're still pushing it.

I disagree.

Looking for reactions isn't a reason to be scummy. Of course people will jump on you for being scummy. Doesn't make them all scum.

Come on, what are you doing here? This isn't even an accusation. Are you saying scum won't jump on easy prey? If you are, then we must agree to disagree. If you're saying I think everyone who jumped on my case is scum, you haven't been reading the thread and are reciting Charter/VP's mantra that I'm blindly OMGUS-ing everywhere.

Yeah, scum will jump on an easy target

if you are town

, but you can't say that a good townie won't spot scumminess and jump all over it as well.

No, you haven't jumped on "everyone" who has accused you, but most of your accusations

are

OMGUS. Not "blindly OMGUS-ing everywhere", but OMGUSing.

And you call Mykonian's case weak?

Yep.

Here we go again. I'm saying it's still possible for him to be scum. I personally believe he's town playing well.

Way to leave the option open in case you have to bus him though.

Then what's the point of pairing him with me?

Um, because the connection fits? I don't get what you are saying here. Because he hasn't been scummy on his own yet, he can't be your scumbuddy?

Why are you so worried about it anyway? I only see Incog as scum if you are. If you never flip scum, I don't have a case on Incog. So if you are town, or if you are scum but not with Incog, there's no problem for you here.

Zilla has a scum theory for 7 people. Discounting herself, and afatchic, and Porkens, that leaves us with camn. camn just moved up in scumminess.

Lynch Zilla.

Hmm. Good point here. I personally see Camn as town other than this, but if Zilla flips scum, I'll look closer.

Kmd4390:

I'm still not really sure what to think of him at this time. I've only played with him in one game which happened nearly a year ago back when he was new to the site, but I don't recall him being as tunnel-visioned in that game as he has been here (he was town there). I'm really not a fan of his recent accusation that I'm scum if Zilla is scum because I really can't see how in post 248 he could interpret my post 240 as a Zilla-scum buddy who's trying to bring down the attack against her. I was pretty clearly arguing that with the constant back-and-forths of the same point being argued over and over again between charter and Zilla, the thread is likely becoming more and more unreadable which actually

hurts

town rather than helps it. And his interpretation of Zilla's quote is bizarre as well, along with his new stance on page 11 where he argues that he doesn't even find me scummy at all. So why did you pair Zilla and I together? How did you interpret my posts early in the game and on page 10 as soft questions and then protection of a Zilla-scum buddy?

ZazieR and camn:

I know both of you have a lot more experience playing with Kmd than I do -- what's your read of him so far?

That's interesting. I feel I tunneled on BB and LLH pretty hard in Newbie 635.

And I'm trying not to tunnel here. I see Zilla as scum and Myko as town. Those are the leading wagons and we have short days due to the deadline rules. So I'm pushing Zilla over Myko. I'll look in other places once Zilla is dead.

The connection is a subtle defense. Not a direct defense, but you are asking BOTH Charter and Zilla to stop going back and forth. This allows the discussion to fade and the Myko discussion takes over.

Also, Llama, Charter, and Plum have played more with me than Camn has. Plum hasn't really seen me as town in a finished game yet though (exceptions=Zelda where I couldn't keep up and Double Head where I was paired with Zazie). VP has seen me about as much as Camn too. If you want reads from people who have played with me, I'd ask Llama, Charter, and Zazie.

Kmd:

your read of ZazieR so far?

She seems to be playing differently lately (not just here), so it's hard to say. The whole Porkens being scum for killing scum thing seems weird. I can actually follow her logic, but I just can't see scum going way out of their way to make themselves look good like that. Especially on Day 1 where they don't have any idea of what they'll be facing (SK, fact that they aren't dying at night if they are the only killers, etc). The only way Porkens makes sense as scum is if he is a daykilling SK (rare) or a different scum group than Afat (also probably not likely). So while I disagree with Zazie, I think she is probably trying to think logically and probably town.

mykonian, VP, and KMD: what's your read of LF?

He doesn't seem like himself. He likes to control the game regardless of alignment. Here, he hasn't really done that. He seems to actually be

avoiding

attention, which is not like Llama at all. I don't know if this makes him a likely SK or what, but it's definitely not townLlama OR ScumLlama that I've seen before.

I have in no way stated that these people are likely or even definitely scum with one another like you or Kmd have done in the past.

Why ignore Charter drawing up a connection between Zilla and Camn?

First person to pick out Porkens' dayvig soft claim AND to announce it in-thread when she was at L-2 when that could have easily gotten another 2 people to vote her for a lynch after an afatchic-scum just got shot? Maybe I'm being naive, and she could be EXTREMELY ballsy scum, but I doubt that.

How is that ballsy? A daykill is one of those things where if you ignore it, something is up. Of course she's going to comment on it.

KMD has it right in that my meta is inconclusive. That's what I aim for. Mykonian evidently hasn't looked at my town games with context, which tells me he's either being extremely lazy or he thinks he can get away with his shoddy case.

Wait. Why did you try to use meta as a defense if it's inconclusive?

Woah, I just reread Charter's part in the recently ended Monopoly Mafia, and that paints an entirely different picture of Charter. This tunnelvision is way more like his Family Guy tunneling. In Monopoly, he didn't have blinders on, and even people he said were obv-town (Gamma) ended up on his scum list at the end of the day.

Go read Mini 672 and tell me Charter doesn't tunnel as town.

I still have warm and fuzzy feelings about Charter from our last game together where he NAILED a well-concealed KMD-scum with his tunnelvision. So I'd hesitate to rely exclusively on his meta for the scum rating.

That game hurt.

(True story, I don't IC anymore because of it.)

One last thing:

Off-topic banter:

I've decided that I'd probably pay really good money to see Zilla beating her chest the way charter suggested.

There's always YouTube!

[mykonian]

unvote vote VP Baltar

His last post makes me think he is scum that sees his dreams come true: two wagons on town. He seems to argue both ways in his posts, for instance, and this:

You were making it out that I supported their lynches equally, which is not true. The point I was making about Zilla's wagon being the leading one at the time is this: why would I, as scum, not vote for Zilla's wagon that was gaining steam when it wouldn't have been suspicious at all to do so? Even though mykon was second wagon, wouldn't the obvious play there for scum have been to go after the wagon most likely to lynch in the shortest possible time?

That's all wifom, of course, but so was your point, so I think it's fair to consider.

I can think of a reason: have pressure on both of them, making them suspicious for day two.

this combined with the way he got on my wagon, and how he is attacking both zilla and me from it, I think I like this place for my vote

I'm growing cool on Mykonian because in Drawn Together, as I was rereading after replacing, I would have lynched him too. He's not a very pro-town player, and he's absolutley horrible at defending himself.

arg, two games in a row where I here that... It would be very nice if someone explained me after the game

[mykonian]

EBWOP: arg, two games in a row where I hear that... It would be very nice if someone explained me after this game.

[Zilla]

KMD: opinoins on VP?

KMD: Why can't there be intermediate levels of seriousness?

KMD: Where did your brain go this game?

Your case is based on me trying to get a reaction from plum. You're just as bad as charter if you think that makes me scum.

As far as "painting a townie as scum" where do you see me pushing a porkens case?

Wait. Why did you try to use meta as a defense if it's inconclusive?

Mykonian asked for it. You're the only one who wanted to attribute me using my meta as defense. The ONLY reason my meta is involved is because Mykonian asked for town games and voted on what he claims was based on my play in Merrim, where I played as scum how I would have played as town.

Also, I don't get his notion that I'm pushing "cases that don't make sense." Again, I wouldn't have played Merrim any differently as town, and my cases all make perfect sense to me.

Basically, KMD's case also seems to hinge on "town can't make gambits," since apparently trying to get reactions out of players is scummy.

KMD says my motivation for voting Porkens for rolefishing was to push a case on a townie, who was doing the right thing. If that was my motivation, why didn't I actually make a case? Why would I POSSIBLY EVER claim that it was a joke vote? That makes no sense.

KMD claims my motivation to lie about joke-voting was... what? To evade pressure? That also makes no sense. Look at the timeframe there. There was NO information I could have gleaned that would have made me change my mind about so-called "pushing" porkens. I still think his reaction was suspicious. If I was pushing Porkens at all, why would I flake just because someone asked if I was serious?

KMD claims my motivation for revealing that there was a modicum of seriousness in my vote was... THAT I HAD TO BE EITHER COMPLETELY SERIOUS OR COMPLETELY JOKING BECAUSE THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND. Apparently in KMD's black and white world, nobody can do something "kinda fishy." Either an action is totally town, or totally scum. Having any indecision means you are scum, because NOBODY has indecision.

KMD, I want you to go into any random game where the word "serious" is dropped, and see if the question "How serious were you?" is asked. I'm willing to bet around 70% of games where seriousness is discussed will include that question at some point. It's completely stupid to think that there is only 100% serious votes and 100% joking votes.

Now what other points are there in my case?

That apparently Mykonian is my scumbuddy because I didn't make the best case on him when I voted him, and that he took too long to vote me, and that I was calling him out on fence-sitting?

That apparently Incognito is also my scumbuddy because he wanted to stop the pointless back and forth between Charter's insatiable tunneling and my adamant defending?

That camn is apparently my scumbuddy because I

haven't made a case on her yet

haven't outlined a theory in which she may be scum?

You know what? I haven't outlined a theory on how Porkens can be scum either, as ZazieR and LlamaFluff have. Porkens must be my buddy too. "OH BUT YOU VOTED HIM FOR ROLEFISHING! THAT COUNTS!" Yeah, that was totally hardcore bussing, there's no way we could possibly be linked after I made such a rock-solid case on him.

That VP is my scumbuddy because he's not voting me?

==============================

Mykonian, what do you think of me now, and why change to VP over me?

[Zilla]

By this point, if KMD is still pushing the same case, he's not playing as town.

[Zilla]

Marker: I have just now created a post that I may post later. This will serve as a reference point to when I actually typed that post. I've decided it is best not to post it until I have more information, so pending KMD and Mykonian's response, I'll withhold posting it until they have responded to my last few posts.

[charter]

So can we lynch Zilla now?

[VP Baltar]

So someones summiness depends on how well they defend their case?

That's a nice leap in logic you have there. Someone's scumminess depends on the scummy actions they take in the game. If a person cannot defend and justify their actions, it generally causes one to believe that those accustions may be valid.

Also, when are you going to answer my questions about your big top secret case?


I like Zilla a lot on this page, and Kmd not so much.

Kmd, you are tunnelling a lot on Zilla and it's over the same points again and again and again. The only really new thing you've added to the case is this Incog as potential partner accusation, which you yourself admit means nothing right now. If Zilla weren't in this game, who would you vote right now?

[VP Baltar]

EBWOP: the only really new thing you've added to the case

recently

...

[mykonian]

Mykonian, what do you think of me now, and why change to VP over me?

My observation of the first few pages, where I voted you for, is still the same. But like I said before, it is hardly defendable, and I have to be careful with it. Your recent play is much more protown, less weak cases that you take too serious. So it is mostly that I will keep an eye on you, but not that I could easily switch back, that depends on what happens next.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I started at the mod scene of afc's death. And first of all,

mod

- eventhough AFC was a werewolf and werewolfes, as far as I know, don't change gender. So could you please keep it this way, and make him a guy again in your flavour?

Second, is this:

afatchic, Forest Wolf Governor, has been pierced through the heart.

This could mean that there are two scum groups, based upon SpyreX previous modded game.

[ZazieR]

@Incog
In post 171, you mention two posts from AFC and you give some comments on it. What were your conclusions from it regarding his second quote and why?:

Ninja'd.

doublevote: afatchic

for the same reason as Llamafluff.

Only scum would wanna lynch two people right at the start!

Serious accusation towards Zilla dressed up as a joke

[ZazieR]

Porkens claims dayvig? Awesome job anyhow! (ducks incoming votes for commenting on what just happened).

Hypocriting (complain that it's not a real verb, and Rena WILL visit you. You've been warned )
Is the part between brackets serious or not?


(Extra note, my computer is very slow today. So it might take more time to post the things I want to say...)