Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 6)

[Gypyx]

going to sleep will offer us nothing other than letting scum pick off someone that worries them

[Gypyx]

"nooo please dont own me with facts and logic again (((( "

i'm not feeling very owned right now but sure, whatever you say

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

going to sleep will offer us nothing other than letting scum pick off someone that worries them

or maybe u don't know whos a good kill here outside smiley and he is a bad kill for u + letting me get another check *might* be dangerous. I wont speculate on the latter bc it could just be a bluff anyways and the former is more compelling.

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

@smiley @black cmon u HAVE to see this shit as obvious openwolfing like u dont need a mechanical confirmation to see this IMO i just can feel it objectively

[Gypyx]

awooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

u know whats crazy is that gypyx has accused me of not solving for their partner all while not even bothering to pretend to look for an imaginary partner i have

the projection is wiiiiiiiild

[Gypyx]

your partner is in gibdo / aureal

they aren't talking so it's a bit hard to solve there

i don't need to do more solving

[Gypyx]

my accusation is also that you're not sussing someone you should be susing to avoid getting more heat from them

that's pretty different

[Gypyx]

Why is Smiley clear?

Hey are you Mafia-Aligned by any chance

[Gypyx]

I feel like Aureal makes a lot of sense as the grovyle partner

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

my accusation is also that you're not sussing someone you should be susing to avoid getting more heat from them

that's pretty different

the scumssplaining of what my reads should be is honestly incredibly funny LOOOOOL

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

like the audacity to say i should have X read ... like idk what u expected i had the same read the last phase lol, shoulda paid attention

[Gypyx]

My audacity is only rivaled by your willful obliviousness to any kind of mechanics

[Grovyle in a Fedora]

My audacity is only rivaled by your willful obliviousness to any kind of mechanics

says person who tries to pretend jailkeeper cannot protect a player because they want to pretend the real scenario does not exist

[Gypyx]

Oh yeah sure, my plan was absolutely to make all of you forget that jailkeeper can protect people, darn it, i've been caught lacking

[Black]

Ok I like gypyx less on this page than I did the other page

[Gypyx]

i'm getting kinda bored repeating the same conversation multiple times with Grovyle what can i say

like, him asking to go to night is absolutely him cracking under the pressure, i hope you can at least see that

Grovyle's whole play today, despsite supposedly having a guilty has been about avoiding confrontation

[Aureal]

Someday I'll probably read whatever is going on here

[Gypyx]

Aureal your scumbuddy needs help

[Aureal]

Oh? Sounds like time for this:

[SmileyDude1]

like theyre classic shortcuts I've seen people take.
i also think gypyx's "bussing" comment they recently made is an objective slip but ig its kinda hard to prove since I have mechanical info that incriminates them vs having to solve them via day play atp.

Explain where I'm shortcutting. If I am taking shortcuts here, I want to be made aware so I can give due consideration.

Also i'd like to hear your perspective on the slip. Help me see what you see there.

like its much more reasonable to conclude they were trying to distance from ming while soft defending the slot. ofc we don't have the benefit of asking elements themselves the question but that's the objective answer fmpov.

Thing is I didn't really get chainsaw vibes from Elements day 1 there. I got the general vibe that they pushed Rational day 1 due to disagreeing with them in terms of game theory and getting generally annoyed by their presence. I didn't really get the vibe they were pushing Madman specifically for their Ming read, like that angle felt somewhat like an afterthought ( I also think if that was their intent, it doesn't make sense to ask madman to clarify, if they'd received proper clarification it'd weaken their grounds to defend the slot). Like it's the type of thing where Elements would be subtly soft-defending their partner Ming there, and tbh I think that argument could be applied to anyone that pushed rational that day phase. FWIW I did go the additional step into looking into living partner interactions here, something I probs don't bother with if I think Ming/Elements is impossible I just think there are aspects that make it feel weird/unlikely to me.

my argument is going to be summed up as "you have bias" and you're going to go "nuh uh" like you already have and its going to go in circles.

i don't think your vibes are correct quite frankly and you're avoiding the conclusion that is correct out of wanting to have been correct on me the previous dayphase.

I don't think that's so much bias as it is an reality of the situation here. You were a slot that I thought was highly likely to be scum entering this day phase and you claimed a guilty on the slot I posited the most trust in earlier in the day phase 2490. Naturally, it's going to be difficult to sway me. I am trying to approach this with an open mind, and I believe I've given a lot of slack here in terms of hearing you out (especially given I was kind of half expecting you to guilty me here earlier this dayphase), I can't promise that i'll see or take to your POV but I can say i'm taking it into consideration. I do note your point about differing standards, when I have time later in the afternoon/evening probably after work (for context it's morning where I am right now). I'll compare the associative cases I made for your slot and Ele/Gyp slot and see if there's any disparity towards the amount of leeway i'm giving each of you. (may also amend your case a slight bit, I remember making it in the process of arguing your dayplay was sus in 2403 and I don't know whether I covered everything there. Think I got most of the pertinent stuff but there may be smaller things I missed)

my finals week JUST came to a close btw (I passed all my classes) and I have a lot of work hours over the weekend, I am trying my best to push through and I just don't have the time to reread stuff and don't feel it will largely change my conclusions (I have reread stuff fwiw mainly d1 to reverify things, and it DID resolidify my opinions)

if other people truly need me to do the song and dance of reading the game and making a "case" I'll happily do it on Monday but I genuinely cannot do so earlier. I don't have the luxury of being able to focus on just "solving for last" as I have to also win a cc with my guilty. one that should be clear to other townies is real atp and occams razor points to gypyx being mafia here, if you don't pull the assumption that mafia have no reason to kill thomith slot. i think smiley's contributions and effort have shown that there was indeed incentive for mafia to shoot there if they were aware of how smiley plays - and that should be taken into account.

its literally just gypyx/gibido here. gibido has been basically a nothingburger nearly all game and then came in to help push over dgb in a tvt wagon in a super scummy way on top of the only other contribution I can remember is their d2 being outing what dann said in the hood which struck me as odd at the time but in retrospect it makes sense bc he was IMO just saying things - in that it was just repeating what dann maybe said but really not caring for it.

Yeah i'm willing to see it from you. Tbh, I don't think I see Gypyx scum right now based on what i've seen. If we're both town, I'm probs going to need some help to see Scum!Gypyx here.

[SmileyDude1]

Honestly i've found that this kind of stuborn "ignore the most likely path" type of stances in ELo often comes from scum

What is this referring to?

Grovyle refusing to see a smiley / me world

because smiley is towny on his own merits. you want to try to push me into a silly corner where i force the solve in a bad place and weaponize smiley being town into getting over the last hump now :lol

i was already refusing to see smiley scum worlds after halfway through the last dayphase xDDDD

Couldn't help but notice this. If this was the case then what was with our interaction before the guilty at the beginning of the day phase.

Vibes mostly, 2495 gave off dismissive/lol vibes that I feel like are typical when someone feels their response was bad/scummy/incriminating. Feels like typical framing before you drop something on said player.

Also had the thought coming into the day phase that you might try faking a guilty here. Remember when I mentioned last day phase that it felt like scum wanted to divert away from resolving myself/you yesterday in order to do so today where getting it wrong causes us to lose. This was a play I was considering might potentially come from you because it plays into that.

As mentioned earlier, maybe i'm just paranoid, if I'm wrong i'll probs at least give you the time of day to consider the implications there. Not getting the vibes that i'm wrong on this right now though.

i mean the reason i did start alluding to it was to test your reaction yes

Like why test my reaction there if you thought I was town?

[SmileyDude1]

Also some miscellaneous things before I have to leave to get ready to work.

I've honestly thought about no-limming but I think it doesn't really give enough value to town to really make it worth here IMO. Like I feel like the main pushed pairs rn are Gypyx/Gibdo and Grov/Aureal and I think no-killing probs just results in one of myself/Black dying and then just being in the same scenario tomorrow with little information likely to be gained. I think it's highly unlikely that scum would have multiple prs here (not even sure what they'd be) and thus I don't really see any info being gained from actually no-limming here.

Also something I thought about recently that I think it'd be good to consider, it is possible that Grov/ their scum buddy could've shot into me as I was being jailkept. Even if scum were confirmed to have attacked me, that doesn't necessarily confirm Grov here.

Got to go

[Black]

Aureal it doesn't really feel like you are trying to solve the game at all

[Black]

Yeah I don't see much reason to shoot there either, which is exactly why the jk almost certainly was stopping him from making the kill rather than being it.

Also the whole "working in lockstep with Goofball to defend each other once they got tied together" thing.

If it's almost certain that Smiley is scum then why should we fade DGB today?

I don't think I ever got an answer to this actually

I think it's noteworthy that Aureal positioned herself to fade the RB over the VT even though she was more convinced the VT was scum