Lord of The Rings Mafia - Game End

[SafetyDance]

So town could only get the ring if the TP-Vig/Mafia "killed" Gollum the first night, Gollum got it wrong on the recall and died the next night (or guessed wrong) and then the other-scum was rung up the next day? As others said, way too OP. Did this get reviewed?

Definitely needed more setup spec and no idea why the town on my lynch thought it was scummy, people were avoiding the Who/GM problem. Anyway the slot was useless. The first guy did nothing and then the next one investigated someone he was always going to get negative on. Well, whatevs. Role only had powered if we knew all flavor anyway.

[waynegg]

Holy shit, waynegg was scum the whole time. xD Never again will HE get the benefit of the doubt!

I have to say that there was a mechanics/balance issue with the Gollum role; town had NO WAY to take it out after he got the ring. It should be difficult, but possible.

Lol! Anti-scum but yeah. I worked for ages on my fake claim!

[waynegg]

ok. first of all, i came into the game hoping against all odds that there would never be a massclaim because lol TREEBEARD WTF. i had planned to claim 1-shot commuter if it ever came down to it, but wow...

You read my thoughts perfectly my man!

[waynegg]

I really enjoyed the game. Wish I hadn't gone stupid so I coulda finished it. If I really got under your skin SK, sorry, but I was playing to my wincon and you guys had me pegged so I had to get rid of you and look town while doing it so the sarcasm had to pour. If you all hadn't been on me so hard I probably wouldn't have gone after you with the same tenacity.

Good game, had fun!

[SleepyKrew]

Oh yeah you were driving me legit crazy. If you were town, I'd blacklist you. But you weren't so I forgive you.

[waynegg]

Thanks!

[Empking]

So town could only get the ring if the TP-Vig/Mafia "killed" Gollum the first night, Gollum got it wrong on the recall and died the next night (or guessed wrong) and then the other-scum was rung up the next day? As others said, way too OP. Did this get reviewed?

There are many more ways for town to get the ring. They could lynch Gollum and hope Gollum gets killed/made the wrong gamble on if the ringbearer would get killed. It seems silly to act like town couldn't have won; they knew they had to get the ring to win, and on Day Six they knew goodmorning had it, yet at no point did town have the ring for even a second yet if they did get the ring from goodmorning they quite possibly could have won (by Day Seven, they were dependent on scum, but that's the nature of multi-faction games; it's like the leashed serial killer dependent on town and scum for a shot at victory).

Yes, if Gollum played the night-game perfectly, and avoided the possibility of being nightkilled then town would lose without feeling they deserved to, and that's a definite problem. However, I think people acting like there was no other possibility but a third party win are werongheaded and are just looking at how the game played out this time; yes, once the Mafia lost two of their members in the first three days and was then Cop investigated the Mafia didn't stand much of a chance; yes, once the town decided to allow third party to be their hammer voter, they didn't stand much of a chance. However, none of those things had to happen. The set up definitely had flaws, but it being preordained that the third party would win is not one of those.

[waynegg]

I'm sure Who was like, wtf?!, but I decided to play the too scummy to be scum thing. I left my slot pretty well set up for the win it think. Muffin endgamed and I think he would have won if Gollum wasn't a tad broken.

[waynegg]

So town could only get the ring if the TP-Vig/Mafia "killed" Gollum the first night, Gollum got it wrong on the recall and died the next night (or guessed wrong) and then the other-scum was rung up the next day? As others said, way too OP. Did this get reviewed?

There are many more ways for town to get the ring. They could lynch Gollum and hope Gollum gets killed/made the wrong gamble on if the ringbearer would get killed. It seems silly to act like town couldn't have won; they knew they had to get the ring to win, and on Day Six they knew goodmorning had it, yet at no point did town have the ring for even a second yet if they did get the ring from goodmorning they quite possibly could have won (by Day Seven, they were dependent on scum, but that's the nature of multi-faction games; it's like the leashed serial killer dependent on town and scum for a shot at victory).

Yes, if Gollum played the night-game perfectly, and avoided the possibility of being nightkilled then town would lose without feeling they deserved to, and that's a definite problem. However, I think people acting like there was no other possibility but a third party win are werongheaded and are just looking at how the game played out this time; yes, once the Mafia lost two of their members in the first three days and was then Cop investigated the Mafia didn't stand much of a chance; yes, once the town decided to allow third party to be their hammer voter, they didn't stand much of a chance. However, none of those things had to happen. The set up definitely had flaws, but it being preordained that the third party would win is not one of those.

So if GM had been lynched and the NK'd she would have died before she could get the ring back?

[Empking]

So if GM had been lynched and the NK'd she would have died before she could get the ring back?

Yeah. The steal, as Gollum knew, came after kills. [Off Topic: I would put the core problem of the game was that, although it was more open than most (three scum etc), it was still too dependent to players acting the right way to information they had no way of knowing.]

[BROseidon]

40% anti-town faction is insane.

PA and I played around with the idea of Muffin also being 3rd party, but figured that the game wouldn't be 40% scum. That's an absurd ratio.

[Amrun]

You and PA made me so happy after I died. We were thinking along such the same lines.

[waynegg]

Well thanks for the game Emp. I would happily play any of yours!

[SafetyDance]

So town still only could have won IF anti-town killing factions worked with them? That's absurd wrangle for a town win-con, scum would do what they did this game and leave them in the game everytime because they'll just push for an easy lynch. Which means you're banking on the third-party vig to kill. Lynching GM...she knows who hammers her! It doesn't matter what alignment that person is because she still knows who has it.

[SleepyKrew]

Oh yeah it was really surprising that no one cared that muffin trolled the thread with us.

[Empking]

So town still only could have won IF anti-town killing factions worked with them? That's absurd wrangle for a town win-con, scum would do what they did this game and leave them in the game everytime because they'll just push for an easy lynch. Which means you're banking on the third-party vig to kill. Lynching GM...she knows who hammers her! It doesn't matter what alignment that person is because she still knows who has it.

She does not know who will have it at the end of the night. The rest of your post, I think, stems from that error.

[waynegg]

So town still only could have won IF anti-town killing factions worked with them? That's absurd wrangle for a town win-con, scum would do what they did this game and leave them in the game everytime because they'll just push for an easy lynch. Which means you're banking on the third-party vig to kill. Lynching GM...she knows who hammers her! It doesn't matter what alignment that person is because she still knows who has it.

She does not know who will have it at the end of the night. The rest of your post, I think, stems from that error.

And if she were NK'd herself it wouldn't have mattered.

If TF hadn't been outed when GM was, scum would have every motivation to NK the third party.

[waynegg]

So I think there were three avenues for a different outcome at the beginning of D6.

Both would have started with "outing" goodmorning even though Muffin didn't investigate her and saying nothing about TF

N6 TF kills goodmorning, Muffin claims TF as scum, other 3rd party wins

N6 TF kills Muffin (which would have been funny for the reaction of town) ring is back in play. From there on either scum or town could have won.

This game ended the way it did the same way pretty much any game ends. On a misplay. It's easy to Monday-morning quarterback, and that's not what I'm doing here. I can't say what I would've done in Muffin's shoes would have been any different. I'm just pointing out how the game was balanced. I think it was a well put together game!

[ToastyToast]

I really don't want to count this game as a loss.

I was also really expecting a muffinscum victory O.o

[Nobody Special]

Rach wanted to kill you SO BADLY. I was sure we had already tried, but I guess we hadn't.

[Nobody Special]

^^^ That was in response to goodmorning, bottom of previous page.

Someone made a new page and I missed it.

[DeathNote]

Pretty Bummed...

I guess lesson learned?

I figured Muffin wasn't town but I didn't imagine that TF, Muffin, and GM were all anti town. Very disappointed that town did so well tracking scum but still lost... oh well...

[killerjester]

Soooooo...... how does town destroy the ring?

[Empking]

Soooooo...... how does town destroy the ring?

By having the ring during the day, and PMing me to destroy it.

[killerjester]

That applies to all town roles?