Mini 694 - Office Supplies Mafia [Game Over]

[qwints]

Gurgi, nice try at digging yourself out of the whole salem dug for himself. You start out with a strike against you in my book.

If Porkens and I are a scum pair, we're the least subtle pairing in history. (I suppose this is a bit of WIFOM).

Thanks for replacing.

[Lord Gurgi]

Moratorium: Block is not the right word, I apologise, there was a relation in your voting patterns (what little there is). You voted for pacman very early on, never actually suspected him, then dropped your vote when "the random phase was over", and he followed suit. He has not placed a vote since the modkill, and neither have you. The moderately corny questions are to enforce that I will not allow people to go inactive in this game. I don't know how things got this bad, but I'll not be in a dead game.

Regarding the qwints-Porkens-charter team. Post 36, qwints FOS's my predecessor. Post 37, Porkens votes him for c/p'd reasoning. Post 39, 40 charter says he would wagon either of those two but is happy with his vote. Post 48, qwints upgrades to a vote, after Porkens has moved onto GC. On an issue of Porkens scumminess, in 88, he moves to crywolf with weaker reasoning than he had on GC or salempc. Back to connections, in 109, qwints says charter needs to "keep on talking", that's wasted space and scummy. Read post 112 by Green Crayons. More to come after I get back from the Doctor's.

[Stef]

qwints: don't like your last post. What exactly were you referring to in your first paragraph? Elaborate.

waiting for your post LG.

[Lord Gurgi]

In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle. In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also. Then he pressure votes, still nothing on charter-GC. 142, qwints does a useless pressure FoS. 153, qwints asks charter if he's lied. 154, charter says no. 155, charter is dead. On a qwints note: he follows dead town. 169, qwints complains about a return FoS. (Why do people even use FoS?) 184, qwints votes salem because he made "unhelpful comments" this actually means that he voted him for telling him what gut is, and telling him he's already answered the accusations. This is quite clearly stupid. 191, qwints says he's scum for being defensive. What's a better response to accusation qwints? 200, qwints outlines his case against salem being that he is non responsive. That is not necessarily scum behaviour. It is non-responsive behaviour. If you want to lynch for that, do, but don't pretend that it's a scumtell. 204, qwints slips. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens? 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy. 220, qwints is a broken record. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG) 227, qwints defends his inactivity (lolwhut?). 242, qwints admits that his case fails with a flake. 245, awesomeness arrives.

QUESTIONS?

[ZONEACE]

qwints: don't like your last post. What exactly were you referring to in your first paragraph? Elaborate.

waiting for your post LG.

i fail to see whats wrong with his last post, especially the first line.

Gurgi is replacing someone he suspects. Why wouldn't gurgi start with a strike against him in qwints eyes?

Tabula Rasa is a terrible philosphy when replacements are introduced.

[Stef]

I didn't perceive what LG did as Tabula Rasa since he didn't say that what Salem did should be forgotten. He said that he will not account for his predecessor's actions. Of course i agree that if people had a strong enough case on salem they should pursue it but they should also take into consideration what the replacement has to say. I don't like qwints's post because he didn't argument his statement and that's the reason why i asked him to elaborate. Simply saying that a player does something scummy without backing that statement up is scummy under these circumstances in my book anyway.

Also, care to comment on more than just these two players? What is your impression of the other players in the game? Who do you suspect other than LG? Why?

[Lord Gurgi]

qwints: don't like your last post. What exactly were you referring to in your first paragraph? Elaborate.

waiting for your post LG.

i fail to see whats wrong with his last post, especially the first line.

Gurgi is replacing someone he suspects. Why wouldn't gurgi start with a strike against him in qwints eyes?

Tabula Rasa is a terrible philosphy when replacements are introduced.

Hi ZONEACE. <3

[Moratorium]

In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle. In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also. Then he pressure votes, still nothing on charter-GC. 142, qwints does a useless pressure FoS. 153, qwints asks charter if he's lied. 154, charter says no. 155, charter is dead. On a qwints note: he follows dead town. 169, qwints complains about a return FoS. (Why do people even use FoS?) 184, qwints votes salem because he made "unhelpful comments" this actually means that he voted him for telling him what gut is, and telling him he's already answered the accusations. This is quite clearly stupid. 191, qwints says he's scum for being defensive. What's a better response to accusation qwints? 200, qwints outlines his case against salem being that he is non responsive. That is not necessarily scum behaviour. It is non-responsive behaviour. If you want to lynch for that, do, but don't pretend that it's a scumtell. 204, qwints slips. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens? 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy. 220, qwints is a broken record. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG) 227, qwints defends his inactivity (lolwhut?). 242, qwints admits that his case fails with a flake. 245, awesomeness arrives.

</walloftext> I'll be surprised if half the players actually read through this post of yours and look at the corresponding posts you've mentioned here, because formatting lolwut.

That said, I did go through it, and I'm reading the thesis of Gurgi's case as "I'm seeing a reinforced, supportive association between the players who attacked salem_pc and the previously lynched mafia", with examples. My original suspicions were to look at people who jumped on the salem_pc bandwagon (more so than the one who initiated it, in fact), because it was just a weak case. I found this post analysis supportive of my suspicions.

No votes until I see some responses to what Gurgi has most recently put out there. Except for his apparent man-crush on ZONEACE, that is.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'll be keeping track of the people who don't read it Moratorium. Also, what's wrong with ZONEACE?

[raider8169]

I'll be keeping track of the people who don't read it Moratorium. Also, what's wrong with ZONEACE?

I tried to read it but wow. I need like an hour to verify everything. Something I do not have right now.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'll be keeping track of the people who don't read it Moratorium. Also, what's wrong with ZONEACE?

I tried to read it but wow. I need like an hour to verify everything. Something I do not have right now.

It took me a while to put it together. I am going to expect equivalent exchange and such.

[Porkens]

1. Post 36, qwints FOS's my predecessor. Post 37, Porkens votes him for c/p'd reasoning. Post 39, 40 charter says he would wagon either of those two but is happy with his vote. Post 48, qwints upgrades to a vote, after Porkens has moved onto GC.

I don’t argue with this series of events, however, as it has been discusses, my vote in 37 was intended as a random, silliness vote.

2. On an issue of Porkens scumminess, in 88, he moves to crywolf with weaker reasoning than he had on GC or salempc.

Random stage over?

unvote

I think this is getting us nowhere and that Stef is a moron, and until he starts to have some sense, I'm going to just ignore him.

Yeah, unfortunately, the town isn't afforded such luxuries.

vote: crywolf20084

Again, this was the birth of serious posting for me. I hadn’t

made

a case on GC or salempc at that time, so how do you get off calling it weak?

3. In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle.

A

barely

analysis? That was the most in-depth analysis anyone had presented so far. And I did comment on the CG-Charter battle, and on Charter himself!

3.5 In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also.

Hmmm…no. As I said in 124:

f) I don't like this next post (115) much at all. First of all, qwints injects a TON of WIFOM into the conversation really really unnecessarily. Essentially "charter is too scummy to be scum" doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Then, qwints contradicts himself by voting for Charter after all. This post seems to 'cover all the bases.' In one brief post: "I don't think charter is scum," "I'm voting for Charter."

That was in response to this;

Green crayons is definitely getting the better of the argument. I have a tough time, however, believing that scum would be as adamant as charter is being on day 1. Being that active and antagonistic is going to put you under scrutiny - scrutiny that it is possible to avoid. That said, that may be exactly what the scum want me to think. So, it's WIFOM

It's possible that this fight is an act between two scum designed to put one of them beyond reproach. I just want to point out the obvious fact that one being scum wouldn't clear the other one.

Because I think charter's moves have been anti-town, I am going to vote: charter. Charter, why aren't you a liar?

What I took from this post, the first time I read it, was that qwints was trying to play both sides of the field. However, after I re-read it (after qwints’ post 127), I realized that I’d misinterpreted “So, it’s WIFOM,” and “why aren’t you a liar.”

As for “dropping it too easily,” my response was:

Well, it wasn't clear. I see what you mean now.

I saw that I had misread but I wanted to rebut the idea that “it was very clear.”

4. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens?

I

just

lost a game, YOUR GAME, to active-ish lurkers. So yeah, I’m a little sore at that. I’d have been

more

than happy with a salem_pc lynch. If Qwints wants to go that way too, that’s just fine with me.

5. 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy.

Jesus H. W. Damage but I’m tired of being slapped around for this one. The townlist is what is left over after I pick the scum. Sorry, next time I’ll LABEL it better.

6. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing.

I was young and I needed the money for school!

7. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG)

I’m not afraid of expressing my opinion. I’d have put money on him getting wacked night 1, and I think most of you would NOT have taken that bet.

[Lord Gurgi]

1. Post 36, qwints FOS's my predecessor. Post 37, Porkens votes him for c/p'd reasoning. Post 39, 40 charter says he would wagon either of those two but is happy with his vote. Post 48, qwints upgrades to a vote, after Porkens has moved onto GC.

I don’t argue with this series of events, however, as it has been discusses, my vote in 37 was intended as a random, silliness vote.

I don't think that's sufficient.

2. On an issue of Porkens scumminess, in 88, he moves to crywolf with weaker reasoning than he had on GC or salempc.

Random stage over?

unvote

I think this is getting us nowhere and that Stef is a moron, and until he starts to have some sense, I'm going to just ignore him.

Yeah, unfortunately, the town isn't afforded such luxuries.

vote: crywolf20084

Again, this was the birth of serious posting for me. I hadn’t

made

a case on GC or salempc at that time, so how do you get off calling it weak?

You had, you were voting them for various things, inactivity, the nature of their arguments. You voted crywolf for saying she would ignore someone until they started to contribute. That's one of the flimsiest cases you can put together. I would even venture to say it's weaker than a random vote.

3. In 115, qwints votes for charter following some WIFOM in charter's favour. In 124, Porkens gives a barely analysis of the game, rather than some meaningful commentary on the GC-charter battle.

A

barely

analysis? That was the most in-depth analysis anyone had presented so far. And I did comment on the CG-Charter battle, and on Charter himself!

There's a reason I included the word

meaningful

. You said nothing that I could C/P out of the wiki by substituting in some names.

3.5 In 125, Porkens votes qwints for 115. Still nothing in the way of comment on the charter-GC. 127, qwints basically says sorry. 128, Porkens drops it way too easily. 132, qwints pats himself on the back. 133, Porkens pats him on the back also.

Hmmm…no. As I said in 124:

f) I don't like this next post (115) much at all. First of all, qwints injects a TON of WIFOM into the conversation really really unnecessarily. Essentially "charter is too scummy to be scum" doesn't hold a lot of water with me. Then, qwints contradicts himself by voting for Charter after all. This post seems to 'cover all the bases.' In one brief post: "I don't think charter is scum," "I'm voting for Charter."

That was in response to this;

Green crayons is definitely getting the better of the argument. I have a tough time, however, believing that scum would be as adamant as charter is being on day 1. Being that active and antagonistic is going to put you under scrutiny - scrutiny that it is possible to avoid. That said, that may be exactly what the scum want me to think. So, it's WIFOM

It's possible that this fight is an act between two scum designed to put one of them beyond reproach. I just want to point out the obvious fact that one being scum wouldn't clear the other one.

Because I think charter's moves have been anti-town, I am going to vote: charter. Charter, why aren't you a liar?

What I took from this post, the first time I read it, was that qwints was trying to play both sides of the field. However, after I re-read it (after qwints’ post 127), I realized that I’d misinterpreted “So, it’s WIFOM,” and “why aren’t you a liar.”

As for “dropping it too easily,” my response was:

Well, it wasn't clear. I see what you mean now.

I saw that I had misread but I wanted to rebut the idea that “it was very clear.”

How was it not clear? It was giving him an opportunity to worm himself out of the situation before qwints put on a vote. Your "misinterpretation" was distancing.

4. 216, Porkens outlines why the case is generally pathetic, and why every player has done it in this game, but still is in support of salempc lynch, explanation Porkens?

I

just

lost a game, YOUR GAME, to active-ish lurkers. So yeah, I’m a little sore at that. I’d have been

more

than happy with a salem_pc lynch. If Qwints wants to go that way too, that’s just fine with me.

Yes, you did. You also previously claimed your vote on salempc was a joke. Why are you not contradicting yourself here? In addition, Vamparific hadn't posted at

all

, why not wagon him?

5. 217, Porkens makes a townlist, Porkens knows that this is scummy.

Jesus H. W. Damage but I’m tired of being slapped around for this one. The townlist is what is left over after I pick the scum. Sorry, next time I’ll LABEL it better.

Post a list of scum. Don't post a townlist or neutral list.

6. 221, Porkens does some soft-core distancing.

I was young and I needed the money for school!

I'll take that as an admission of guilt.

7. 224, Porkens reasons why he would have killed GC. (RED FLAG)

I’m not afraid of expressing my opinion. I’d have put money on him getting wacked night 1, and I think most of you would NOT have taken that bet.

Theoretical qualifying of the night kill does

not

help town. Don't try to portray it as having the guts to say it. There is no reason on earth why town would say something like that.

[Lord Gurgi]

If Porkens and I are a scum pair, we're the least subtle pairing in history. (I suppose this is a bit of WIFOM).

In case it wasn't previously obvious, qwints should be lynched for this, if not anything else he's already done.

[Porkens]

1. Well, I'm sorry you feel this way but that's all the explanation I've got for you.
2. Huh, I guess the problem here is how we each interpret the word "case"
3. I don't follow your comment about the 'wiki'
3.5. First of all; I assume since you didn't say anything about it your droppong the point about me 'not mentioning the GC-Charter case. Second, to be absolutely honest, I can not remember how I first took his post. It deos seem clear to me now.
4. Why am I

not

contradicting myself? I assume that is a typo. I had completely written-off vampiric as a no-show, that's why I didn't say boo about him at that time.
5. Allrighty then.
6. Haha take it howver you want. If we argue this particular point it's going to turn into "yes you did, no I didn't, yes you did, no I ..."
7. If someone asks me why I'm not suprised that someone was NKd (which they did in this case) how would you like me to answer instead of telling the truth?

I agree with you about 263 (I suppose THIS is bussing?)

[Lord Gurgi]

With so many people waiting for these posts, you think they'd comment on them.

[qwints]

All I know is that Porkens copied me for reasons I don't know.

I'll deal with the rest of the new content tomorrow.

[raider8169]

All I know is that Porkens copied me for reasons I don't know.

I'll deal with the rest of the new content tomorrow.

Deadline is tomorrow, I will have something up today.

[Porkens]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[qwints]

Gurgi, I think you've produced a misleading list of actions hidden by poor formatting. Here's the worst offenders:
1.

in 109, qwints says charter needs to "keep on talking", that's wasted space and scummy

I was asking for more on a specific topic - his "case" against GC. Asking for an explanation is not scummy as long as it's not the only thing you do during the game.
2.

184, qwints votes salem because he made "unhelpful comments" this actually means that he voted him for telling him what gut is, and telling him he's already answered the accusations. This is quite clearly stupid.

This was in response to this post:

For the record, Sudo's vote wasn't the only reason I suspected salempc. As I pointed out on Day 1, I found the fact that he complained about a lack of activity without adding a contribution of his own to be scummy. After one mildly helpful post, he went back to relatively contentless posts.

Hence the fact that I "continued" my fos.

Stef, why does your gut tell you to vote for me?

I'm pretty sure that issue has been explained some pages ago.

Why does Stefs' gut tell him to vote? Not even he knows. Gut is unconscious. Gut is just a feeling. It doesn't really take consideration in the conscious level, BUT it does in the unconscious.

Asking for an explanation of a gut feeling is a legitimate point. Salem_pc attempted to innoculate Stef from the question. If you're going to claim an issue was already covered, you should at least point to who answered it.
3. [quote ="gurgi"]
200, qwints outlines his case against salem being that he is non responsive. That is not necessarily scum behaviour. It is non-responsive behaviour. If you want to lynch for that, do, but don't pretend that it's a scumtell.
[/quote]
Persistent non-responsiveness and failure to produce any alterenative content is scummy.

Gurgi, learn to format. Saying that you'll "keep track of" people who don't read dense, poorly-formatted posts is a joke. Combined with the earlier behavior of salem_pc, I see your text dump of poor analysis + sarcasm to be scummy.

So

unvote,vote Lord Gurgi

[Lord Gurgi]

Gurgi, I think you've produced a misleading list of actions hidden by poor formatting. Here's the worst offenders:
1.

in 109, qwints says charter needs to "keep on talking", that's wasted space and scummy

I was asking for more on a specific topic - his "case" against GC. Asking for an explanation is not scummy as long as it's not the only thing you do during the game.

You specifically said "keep on talking", you didn't tell him to elaborate.

2.

184, qwints votes salem because he made "unhelpful comments" this actually means that he voted him for telling him what gut is, and telling him he's already answered the accusations. This is quite clearly stupid.

This was in response to this post:

For the record, Sudo's vote wasn't the only reason I suspected salempc. As I pointed out on Day 1, I found the fact that he complained about a lack of activity without adding a contribution of his own to be scummy. After one mildly helpful post, he went back to relatively contentless posts.

Hence the fact that I "continued" my fos.

Stef, why does your gut tell you to vote for me?

I'm pretty sure that issue has been explained some pages ago.

Why does Stefs' gut tell him to vote? Not even he knows. Gut is unconscious. Gut is just a feeling. It doesn't really take consideration in the conscious level, BUT it does in the unconscious.

Asking for an explanation of a gut feeling is a legitimate point. Salem_pc attempted to innoculate Stef from the question. If you're going to claim an issue was already covered, you should at least point to who answered it.

It's

gut

. What are you expecting? Salempc was cutting off a pointless question. Qwints, if you're not capable of remembering which questions have and have not been answered already, no one is responsible to hold your hand for the process.

3.

200, qwints outlines his case against salem being that he is non responsive. That is not necessarily scum behaviour. It is non-responsive behaviour. If you want to lynch for that, do, but don't pretend that it's a scumtell.

Persistent non-responsiveness and failure to produce any alterenative content is scummy.

Gurgi, learn to format. Saying that you'll "keep track of" people who don't read dense, poorly-formatted posts is a joke. Combined with the earlier behavior of salem_pc, I see your text dump of poor analysis + sarcasm to be scummy.

So

unvote,vote Lord Gurgi

He got replaced. That's not lurking, that's leaving the site. You need to understand that people do this whatever alignment are. I agree that non-responsive players should be pushed to activity, but don't even try to call it scummy. Because it is not, it is being non-responsive. Non-formatting is not scummy. I mean really, you're suggesting that the way in which I format my case against you determines its validity? Sarcasm is not scummy it's personality. Qwints, you need to learn the difference between people and play.

On another note: If these are the "worst offenders" why aren't you listing all of them? Saying that there are more than there are, especially when your counter-points are this weak is either arrogance or arrogant scum. Either way you're being arrogant. Grow up.

[Lord Gurgi]

All I know is that Porkens copied me for reasons I don't know.

I'll deal with the rest of the new content tomorrow.

Deadline is tomorrow, I will have something up today.

I am now open to lynching raider.

[raider8169]

All I know is that Porkens copied me for reasons I don't know.

I'll deal with the rest of the new content tomorrow.

Deadline is tomorrow, I will have something up today.

I am now open to lynching raider.

Wow, way to let the day end before making such comments. I was just getting to this game right now. Something will be up soon.

[Porkens]

waitin' on you, raids

[raider8169]

First up is porkens. With 18 posts in the game this shouldnt take long.

5th Post wall of text seems good to me. 6th votes quints, 7th unvotes, 8th post votes salem, *disappears* night happens *still gone* 9th post comes back and votes salem again. *disappears again*. What is with being gone for so long? From the 31st of Oct until the 21st of November you posted a total of 3 times? Yes there was a 4 day night in the mix, still what happened? After that you got better but the big disappearance has me wondering. I did not see anything saying you would be gone for so long.

You say you were scumhunting but your player by player does not show proof of that. I did not see any questions to anyone just general comments. I am of course not one to push the issue as I have done more less the same thing.

Up next qwints

General comments are that I did not see anything obviously scummy. I did not see how porkens and qwints are tied together to a point where they are scum partners together. Sure one could still be scum but I do not think both are. No real questions as everything seems self explanatory. I will look more into qwints if time allows.

Next I am looking at Salem and Gurgi.

Salem admitted to having an OMGUS vote. Not liking alot of his posts. Seem like he is new to mafia so that may explain it. I dislike that he is not trying to explain anything from the person he replaced and says he just will not do it. Just because he replaced in does not mean that Salem did not post and those posts are erased. His second post I can not make heads or tails of. I said it would take time to go through it all. I do not have that time right now. Why did you not format that in a way to make it easier to read? How many people are you tracking that did not read it? It seems like it did take a while to put together and a response may happen later. I like the recent posts but I do not think it fixes the things found on salem. Still I would like to read more posts from Gurgi before I would consider voting him.

This is all the time I have for today, I need to get the kids to bed. I hope to have time before the deadline hits to vote. I have not seen a vote count in a long time so I do not know where we stand.

Porkens, why are you waiting on just me? There are many others who need to get more involved in this game.