Mini 567 - iPick - Game Over: The Stunning Conclusion

[cicero]

Lawrencelot, if the people who suggested a mass claim are "scummier" then why support it?

I think a mass claim at this point is dumb. It usually helps scum by giving them power role clues. It's great to talk about if there's nothing else to talk about (which I'm making people do in another game where the game got off to an absolutely silent start), but in this setup with these players it's a profoundly misguided idea.

This game may in fact be like that other game. At this point I think its just a "look busy" thign because people have nothing else to talk about. So try. I'm fine with a mass claim including a flavor claim at some point but not when I expect that the big man in charge hasnt even finished doling out the setup.

I'm sorry but I'm not ready to give clues to scum yet in return for reading their safeclaims. Unlike me, they have three role pms to work with and coordinate. And for the love of God, one of the players in this game is

Adel

. She's got the brain of a supercomputer, the slippery morals of a russian politician and the imagination of MC Escher on a meth bender. Not a match up I'm interested in doing on the first day of a game whose theme is "things that don't make sense" in an ipick game where a mischevious Guardian got to decide who is scum.

What if, for example, certain types of roles are grouped with clues in the name?

What if there is a mafia flavor cop who needs your role name to find out if you're the doctor?

I'm really sorry to be a spoilsport kids, but I'm keeping my cards a little closer to my chest for a while until I have a chance to think more about this and get my head around the implications. I'm not saying never to massclaims but I am saying no for the moment

Guardian's game isn't so weird that standard rules of good town play don't apply, and that means dont send info so easily.

--------------
And Lawrencelot, if you mass claim the usual way is popcorn with the scummiest person first and then letting him pick the next person and so on down the line. It accomplishes pretty much the same thing as dice because everyone's perception of the game is different. It may even be superior to dice because you can draw conclusions from who scum picked once dead scum shows up.

.

[shaft.ed]

Guardian, I thought everyone was getting roles before you modkilled them. Does the lack of DGB's role reveal mean we won't be privy to such information in the future?

In regards to the role name claim. I agree with cicero for now, in that it seems like an idea to keep people busy and feel like we're moving the game forward. At this point I think it will be detrimental.

Also cicero, I'm surprised you have such a harsh interpretation of Adel's incentives to the claim, but don't find it the least bit suspicious that she is a major proponent of it.

[Xtoxm]

From the way DG died I assumed exact roles are not revealed on death. I guess cicero brings up some good points.

[cicero]

Harsh? I thought I was exceedingly complimentary. If you want to not be suspicious of Adel, that's your funeral. It's ok. I'll do it for both of us. :p And I didn't make a final conclusion that she has to be scum. Just a conclusion if she and other supporters

are

scum. Mass claim supporters and objectors are bad grounds for deciding who is scum and who isn't anyway. The scum will generally split for tactical reasons, and townies will see the situation differently since there are different schools of thought on the advantageousness of the plan. Simply put, in this setup, at this time, I'm not prepared to go along with one. Yet.

[cicero]

I think I misread you shaft.ed. I thought you were saying that you werent suspicious of Adel. But you are accusing me of not being suspicious of Adel?

That's stupid. Anyone not suspicious of Adel hasn't played with Adel.

[hasdgfas]

Anyone not suspicious of Adel hasn't played with Adel.

That is completely true.

[shaft.ed]

I think I misread you shaft.ed. I thought you were saying that you werent suspicious of Adel. But you are accusing me of not being suspicious of Adel?

That's stupid. Anyone not suspicious of Adel hasn't played with Adel.

No my point was you were saying 'OMG OMG Adel could do crazy things with a massclaim as scum.' Adel proposed the role claim. Yet you don't link the two. Am I wrong in connecting the dots there?

[cicero]

Sorry, I'm really busy at work today but I thought Xyzzy proposed the claim?

Anyway, yes. If you think that I don't think it's possible Adel has nefarious motives for supporting the massclaim you are wrong to connect those dots. It's actually weird of you to say. I pretty much thought I raised the spectre of Adel scum pretty loudly in the big post so I dont know what you want me to do differently. I simply don't agree with the proposition that I didnt link the two. I thought I had.

[shaft.ed]

I thought 242 was the first suggestion of a Name Claim. Correct me if wrong someone.

[Adel]

If rolename's are anything like mine there's no link that can be drawn to the actual role, and I thought it might out the scum by having useless claims.

What makes you think only role-names would be acceptable?

241 is where I lifted the idea from.

[NabakovNabakov]

/agrees with cicero on name-claiming

[Paradoxombie]

Paradox, while I generally agree with you and have a townish vibe from your early posting, you take a hell of a lot of words to make your point. Re-reading you is going to be a bitch. Do you purposefully do this, or is it just your posting style?

I don't think about how much I am going to write when I make a post. But I don't see how using less words would've made my point any clearer.

Claim 1. W
Claim 2. I
Claim 3. F
Claim 4. O
Claim 5. M

@Paradoxombie: If that was your explanation for why a massclaim could benefit the town, why didn't you share pages ago?

I think the reason is obvious, and you indicate it yourself in this same quote. The more I explain what will be scummy, the harder scum will try to avoid those pitfalls.


I'd support a nameclaim at anytime. And I would note that it becomes less useful the longer we delay.

Cicero, I'm interested in why you think the Mod still hasn't completed the game? Also, your opinion that people's names might give up clues about their role seems off. We all have roles, so couldn't a player who felt their name gave away something simply state that for themselves? Xtoxm has already admitted his role has nothing to do with his name and I'm willing to admit the same.

You seem to imagine only negative possibilities, when surely you can just as easily imagine positive possibilities in the fashion I did. You seem to believe that scum may have fakeclaims. I'm not sure how common that is, but if the mod was warning us against claiming as you, yourself, interpreted, isn't that a potential sign?

[Adel]

Xtoxm has already admitted his role has nothing to do with his name and I'm willing to admit the same.

I am so glad that I am voting for you right now.

[hasdgfas]

Why are we claiming

anything

already?

[Adel]

Why are we claiming

anything

already?

The probably vain hope that scum would mess a claim up in a way that would indicate that they are scum.

[Paradoxombie]

Xtoxm has already admitted his role has nothing to do with his name and I'm willing to admit the same.

I am so glad that I am voting for you right now.

Why? And why did you say nothing when Xtoxm did the exact same thing?!

[Adel]

Xtoxm has already admitted his role has nothing to do with his name and I'm willing to admit the same.

I am so glad that I am voting for you right now.

Why? And why did you say nothing when Xtoxm did the exact same thing?!

his came first. your soft claim fits with scum trying to get their "fitting in" roleclaim in early. Like if he claimed "Rooster" and you claimed "Crow".

[Paradoxombie]

That might be reasonable if your rolename DID have something to do with your role.

[Rogueben]

I think random ROLENAME choice would be best. At this stage of the game there is not really enough evidence to go on for town to have a clear scum-list. Given this I think scum are going to be able to influence the results more.

Sorry if I have limited posting in the next few days. My access at home has been cut-off (yet again).

[Paradoxombie]

EBWOP

That might be reasonable if your rolename DID have something to do with your role,

which I doubt

.

[Rogueben]

edit: missed page 11 (duh). Reading cicero's post I agree that it is best to wait. However, if we do decide to do it, I want either popcorn or completely random, I don't think the condorcet list is good for town at this point.

[NabakovNabakov]

I think the reason is obvious, and you indicate it yourself in this same quote. The more I explain what will be scummy, the harder scum will try to avoid those pitfalls.

So this has nothing to do with the role-related reason you intimated earlier?

I agree with cicero that the setup is "unfinished" but perhaps not for the right reasons. The story is obviously not done yet, and we still have no idea what the vast majority of our surroundings are for. Let's learn how to play with our toys before we break them.

[Paradoxombie]

I think the reason is obvious, and you indicate it yourself in this same quote. The more I explain what will be scummy, the harder scum will try to avoid those pitfalls.

So this has nothing to do with the role-related reason you intimated earlier?

When, exactly?

[Lawrencelot]

Lawrencelot, if the people who suggested a mass claim are "scummier" then why support it?

I don't support it, and I'm not against it. I wouldn't mind mass rolename claiming, but only if everybody or a majority agrees to do it. Now I clearly know that you and NabNab are against it, and Rogueben wants to wait, we shouldn't nameclaim (yet).

I've never heard of popcorn btw, it sounds good though.

New idea: what if we claim whether our rolenames have something to do with our roles or not? (not mentioning our rolenames) 2 people did it already.

[Guardian]

Notice

Lightning flashes through the stormy sky!

Pikachu grows excited.

The TV flashes off, then back on.