Verbose Mafia 2 - Post or Perish (Game Over)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

Turbovolver: 3 (Fiasco, Kelly Chen, PookyTheMagicalBear)
Adele: 2 (DrippingGoofball, Tamuz)
Fritzler: 1 (petroleumjelly)
Kelly Chen: 1 (Thok)
Tamuz: 1 (Fritzler)

Players Nominated: Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, DrippingGoofball, Fritzler, Kelly Chen, mathcam, mikeburnfire, Tamuz, Turbovolver

[Werebear]

The reason I never nominated anyone is because I'm trying to watch and listen and see what among the posts is BS, and what isn't. I didn't see nominating anyone without watching and thinking more to be a good thing to do, if my voting relied on me nominating someone, I would have thrown my hat in the ring.

And before you start theorizing, yes, I could have nominated during the day had I chosen.

But I'm finding a lot of this empty chatter, which is annoying me. Having lots of people talk just to be sure they're seen talking is not my favorite thing. Right now, thiking about what everyone said, I'm least happy with Turbovolver. It's a fine line between playful banter and trying to look unsuspicious by talking fluff, but right now if I had to vote, it would be for him.

[mathcam]

Turbovolver has certainly moved up in the scumminess rankings since my last post. There's something very belligerent about his attitude toward the town and toward winning the game. It's not clear that he can be trusted, or that even if he could be trusted, he'd be good to keep around. Turbovolver, can you

please

be more specific about why you think tss and Pooky are definitely scum?

Fiasco: I think there's more to the Frizler bandwagon than

just

the annoyance...does his last post not strike you as particularly odd, as it did me?

As for managing the day, we could further sub-divide the day. Once we're half-way through this session, we could insist that people vote only for one of the top two (maybe three) candidates or so, so the process of lynching becomes a series of refinements of the town's best guess.

Vote: Fritzler.

[Turbovolver]

The race card ability? Well, we just have to wait until The Silent Speaker opens his mouth again. And we can all see.

I cant agree with Werebear calling my posts fluff. I have been OMGUSing a lot, partially deliberately because I'm "paranoid", but I don't think one could say they have been without content.

And Mathcam, I'm not

completely

sure that Pooky and The Silent Speaker are scum. If my past language has been too strong, then forgive me. I was sure enough to use my ability though.

I've already given plenty of reasons why I dislike The Silent Speaker. Pooky is mostly guilty by association, although I will NOW review the words of you all and come up with some solid conclusions.

And in case anybody was still wondering, I am in fact Malcolm X.

[Turbovolver]

I will first state here that I will be ignoring the party. Perhaps events there could be relevant, though I think the bulk of our suspicions should come from after we got off the plane.

I am finding it difficult to properly remember everyone's comments... there is a wealth of information here, too much for my mind to process all at once. For the moment, I will discuss the events prior to the voting stage. It is likely I missed quite a bit of pertinent information, and I was probably paying more attention to the people I was already suspicious of. But at least now those people can see where I'm coming from in terms of finding them suspicious.

Based on the nomination stage, I came to the following conclusions about some of the people here:

I think Tamuz is one of the innocent ones amongst us... I find myself agreeing with what she contributes to our discussions. Also Kelly Chen, as apart from her thick religious talk there is nothing suspicious in her manner.

petroleumjelly does not stand out in my mind either way, though I do recall an interesting comment where he essentially says he is most suspicious of DrippingGoofball but unnominates her and instead nominates me. Perhaps she was just ensuring we had a wide range of people to choose from when it came time to lynch.
Actually yes, I do recall now that once DrippingGoofball had a nomination removed petroleumjelly's nomination found it's way back to her. So I am rather happy with petroleumjelly for the moment.

Werebear has avoided any sort of contribution at all, but also requested to leave, so I don't know what to make of that.

SpamWise chose a rather cozy time to nominate the early bandwagon leader (Kelly Chen), just because, in his words, he liked the feel. Don't like that. Later, he says he could "hazard a guess" to what I'm thinking, and follows up my nomination. Considering he later mentioned he thought I had extra information, this seems like an outright lie. His nomination of Mathcam would be a guilt-free way to send an innocent to the lynching block, though.

Adele seems a little reserved, making posts which look at overall approach but do nothing to individually find our killers. I don't like that sort of thing. This trend continues throughout the day, and I don't recall her contributing anything about her suspicions.

LoudmouthLee responds to Mikeburnfire rather aggressively, and it sounds as though he was serious when he nominated Mikeburnfire for not apologising properly. I could accept the original nomination being to test the waters, but I cant imagine him being genuinely serious about it. He uses a false dilemma later on, assuming that scum must be amongst the ones nominating MikeburnFire.

Pooky is another player who seems to avoid the bulk of our discussions, instead distracting himself with his beloved Adele. When he does suggest things, they seem to be things aimed at causing us to suspect each other, as opposed to telling us his own suspicions. For example, he asks questions, or randomly suggests things he finds suspicious - but without any commitment.

The Silent Speaker got into an argument with me, so although I find him suspicious I am probably not the best judge of that.

Mathcam's initial nomination was suspicious in my opinion. His next contribution was a set of good ideas, but nothing specific for us to consider. It should be noted that he did not care to mention my mysterious nomination of him until the rest of the town started talking about it. This makes me think he could be one of the killers, testing to see his position in the town before making a contribution. He later nomination hops, justifying it by calling his previous nomination a "fleeting suspicion".

So, based on the nomination phase, the people who stand out as suspicious to me are (in no order):

Adele
Mathcam
LoudmouthLee
The Silent Speaker
SpamWise
PookyTheMagicalBear

The people I'm liking as pro-town so far (in no order):

Tamuz
Kelly Chen
Slight Vibe on DrippingGoofball




I really think SpamWise needs to explain this "outright lie" business.

[DrippingGoofball]

I am in fact Malcolm X.

Fascinating. I don't know whether Turbo and myself are a representative sample, but both Malcolm X and Robert Green Ingersoll are known for their famously verbose public addresses.

Politically correct or not - who is the most famous utterer of speeches, if not Hitler?

Other famous orators include, according to Wikipedia:

Abd-el-Kader (Algerian Kabylian leader against French colonial conquest)
William Jennings Bryan (Peace advocate, presbyterian, critic of Darwin)
Fidel Castro
Winston Churchill (WWII British PM)
Charles De Gaulle ('Free French' general and statesman)
Frederick Douglass (American abolitionist)
Ralph Waldo Emerson (American abolitionist, declared Jesus was not a god)
John Henley (Entertaining preacher)
Patrick Henry (Advocate of the American Revolution)
Adolf Hitler
Robetrt G. Ingersoll
John F.Kennedy
Malcolm X
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Abraham Lincoln
Benito Mussolini (Duce of Fascist Italy)
James Orbinski (Doctors without Borders)
Ronald Reagan (US President- often scolded as 'mere' actor, but great text delivery)
Daniel Webster (American Politician, compromise-seeking)
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto (Pakistani)

Total famous modern orators on Wiki: 20
Total players in this game: 20

Coincidence? Food for thought.

[VitaminR]

VOTING! So many fond memories.

I'm mildly annoyed by the lack of response I've gotten, but I suppose it is not really relevant now that we're in the voting phase. It's a quick phase and in order to avoid the no-lynch danger I think we shouldn't muddle the discussion.

With that in mind, DrippingGoofball, why are you pushing this Hitler thing? Also, I think speculation on set-up may not be the most productive thing to do right now.

I'm still suspicious of mathcam and Tamuz for nominating me without taking my response into account, especially at a time where this may have taken the heat off them and their possible positions as lynch candidates.

I'm leaning towards mathcam because of the non-commital nature of his post today.

I think Turbovolver's actions on the Adele wagon were suspicious, but I'd like to see what his ability does before I consider voting him.

So, for now:

Vote: mathcam

[Thok]

Mr. (Mrs.?) DrippingGoofball, your list of orators, while interesting, does not include the mad monk Rasputin and that enigmatic John Doe; moreover I suspect others from this party of not being on that specific list. There is also the issue that any such list from Wikipedia has no permanance, by the nature of that beast. However, I will bear it in mind, as it seems that Wikipedia does have some slight connection to our plight.

Kelly Chen, I have been ignoring your question as fluff. If people desire that I answer it, I will, but otherwise I see no benefit for doing so and I will continue to clam up about the subject. Perhaps we should both agree to truce?

[Seol]

DrippingGoofball, I have to say, we were provided for masks for a

reason

, and I do not believe it is a good idea to be aggressively speculating on each others identities. I would be concerned enough were it not for your continual references to Hitler, which seem bordering on the obsessive.

Let me point out the obvious, if you will, and state that the majority of us have nothing to hide in respect of our identities and nothing to gain from a better understanding of each others'. On that basis, as has been remarked in

many

similar situations through the ages, I would say that by far the most suspicious act so far is your role-fishing.

In fact, I think it is sufficient to earn you a vote.

vote: DrippingGoofball

.

[Adele]

Adele daydreamed and, upon awakening, realised that she had been thoroughly attacked and thoroughly defended. How gratifying! Although, to be fair, there were questions still that deserved an answer.

It is true that my votes were placed to maximise the number of individuals who might be lynched. You see, a concern was voiced sometime ago that the wicked among us might use the nomination system to force the town to choose among innocents. It was, therefore, my primary concern to undo any attempts at this by placing as many as possible up for lynch.

However, I am shamed to realise that in watching this concern, I have been rather lax at speaking on less tangible matters; my suspicions, and my faiths.

I will agree with the accusation against DrippingGoofball that she has been "fishing". The list of individuals she put forward seems to blatantly invite comments from our group along the lines of "I am on that list" or "I am not on that list".
That does not seem to be the best strategy at this time, when we should instead be working to rid ourselves of an evildoer and begin turning the tide of power against the wicked people among us. Unless you propose this because you are among the nefarious?

Besides which, I believe are captors (whatever their other faults may be) were at least very clear about the "rules" governing our situation. Yet you say you misunderstood and claimed your character at such an early stage. I trust ye not.

I shall, further, think on the behaviour of our other compatriots to determine other suspicions that I hold. I beg patience in the meantime, but be assured they will follow reasonably close. Not least upon the matter of whether he who claims Malcolm x can be trusted, for Malcolm X is violent, a past drug-dealer, draft-dodger and criminal. Yet, his more recent behaviours seem purer... though he still approves violence in circumstances I would call self-interest, not self-defence - is it in his interest to rid this isle of the virtuous?

Vote: DrippingGoofball

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I, too, feel DrippingGoofball's open set-up speculation does not serve a pro-town purpose. And her willingness to claim unsettles me. Yes, she said she hadn't fully grasped the nature of nominations. But why then were they called nominations and not votes and why then did noone other candidate for the lynching block show fear or inclination to claim? I don't really buy it.

I'm also interested to see what effect this "race card" of Turbovolver has.

vote: DrippingGoofball"

[the silent speaker]

Turbovolver, you wound me. Yes, technically the distinction between a random vote and an arbitrary one is semantic, but am I not allowed a pet peeve? And the notion of labeling a vote as random struck and contines to strike me as self-defeating. If you vote me, but quickly reassure me that you aren't voting out of suspicion, my name just happened to come up... well, why should I care? It appears from her reply that Ms. Chen disagrees, but this is hardly mere semantics.

Fluffing out my posts? I noted a potentially interesting correlation. I did not attempt to assert any consequences that necessarily follow; I simply observed a possible connection between various people. It is not a hundred percent guarantee for anyone, but those people seemed to have stronger correlation than most in their stated opinions. How do you expect to fid the killers among us, if not by who is thinking suspiciously alike whom?

This is made especially so by your dismissal of Fritzler's CD comments that "he just wanted to fill in space." So

his

filling in space is innocent, but mine makes me a killer? Thanks so much. And was my query of DrippingGoofball also fluff?

Meanwhile,

you

voted based on a quick agreement with someone else's reaqsoning in lieu of trying to make any of your own. You even said as much. But I'm sure

that

wasn't fluff in the least, no sir, that was enlightened participation.

And yes, my first instinct in situations like this one is to look for any pattern that stands out as more than just background noise, "cute" or otherwise. One never knows what patterns will turn out to not have been so cute after all.

Your attack on SpamWise for daring to question your omnicient judgment is also noted. And when you responded to Pooky that "we" are voting his new bride based on her choice of nominations, who is this

we

of which you speak? It doesn't include you -- you had already unvoted in Pooky's favor.

And

you seem to be playing quite the little shell game regarding which of the two you find more suspicious: first it's Adele, then it's Pooky, then you tell Pooky it's Adele (based on her

nomination pattern

-- but I suppose when you do it it's okay?) then you're using your vote on Pooky to drum up a bandwagon on Adele somehow...

As for this notion that I'm arguing with you based on race, I assure you it is piffle. All races are equal in my eyes and I have no idea what you hope to achieve by "playing the race card."

[Mr. Grey]

Mod Note:

Commodore Amazing has not posted in the fourth real-time day of the game Day, and has therefore used his "miss".

[Fritzler]

Mathcam, what about my last post was scummy? Mentioning the public enemy cd? Because, really it is quite amazing. Flavor flav! Terminator X! Chuck D! Professor Griff and Immortal Technique were even featured on the Album. Quite truely, an amazing CD. I reccomend you all get it.

unvote, Vote: Drippinggoofball

[mikeburnfire]

DG, you are correct. The cartoon I am referring to is indeed Dexter's Laboratory. This has no relevence to the game, though I am not sure why people have started to jump on you.

Nor do I see the case against Adele. I must not be paying enough attention. I am also confused as to why I got so many nominations yesterday and so few votes today. The problem with the so many words being said is that I find it difficult and tedious to sift through the petty issues and slander to find the meat of discussion.

We're undoubtedly doomed to kill an innocent today and my vote can land anywhere, really. Except myself. I don't vote for people I know to be innocent, unless one of you can put on your goggles and present a good argument to do so.

My vote lands on Fritzler for now, for joining the GD bandwagon for no apparent reason.

Vote: Fritzler

[mathcam]

I should specify that I am referring to Fritzler's last post with

content

, in which we so fawningly asks the town what he can do to help. It just struck a scummy-sounding chord for me. The CD thing is most likely off-topic and annoying...I'm not sure that speaking random sentences counts as being verbose. Though I think DrippingGoofball was probably just trying to be helpful, I haven't gotten any particularly pro-town vibes from her either. While I'd prefer to lynch Fritzler today, I'd be willing to switch to DG if it came down to it, to ensure we got a majority.

Cam

[Kelly Chen]

Hmm, until we know what the race card does and why it was deployed, I think I'm content with my random vote on Turbovolver.

A day cop role I thought of for the game of "mafia": The role has two powers that he can use once each. Once, he may message the moderator and request that he announce a specific player's alignment publicly. The other time, he may request that the mod announce that a given player is of an alignment of the cop's choosing. The moderator doesn't indicate to the other players which power was used.

Thok, we can have a truce, but you'd have to unvote me. I believe you suspected me initially for wanting to see your naked back. I contest this allegation however.

Honor thy father and thy mother, lest your bottom be whipped ablaze and your soul condemned to the furnaces of hell!

[Turbovolver]

Turbovolver

takes a playing card out of his pocket, and flips it to the ground (in the general direction of The Silent Speaker). Take that!

It's the four of spades.


I must say I am rather frustrated right now. I spent a long time collecting my thoughts and relating them to the rest of you. And despite the number of people clamoring to lynch me for not doing so earlier, there has not been a signle comment on my conclusions since!

The Silent Speaker, most of your points against me make very little sense. I could explain this to everyone here, but I fear it would only exacibate things further. Of course, if I'm requested to do so I will.

Calm down and make some decent points against me, TSS, or we will get nowhere.

[Tamuz]

Tamuz raises one of her eyebrows skeptically and flicks her hair back out of her eyes.

My dear Turbo, you were totally interesting to talk with earlier, but here I am afraid you have lost me as surely as the maze of Mike's labratorius mind. I cannot follow your actions, nor your thoughts so much. However, I do find it interesting that you leave our friend CES off of your list of most suspicious people.

This may all be true, but I sense more urgent business, even more urgent than the boxing in that DG has done. I am not on that list, nor are there enough women to fit MY kind in your little box. Or can your male mind not capture this, being made only for the horse and sword?

As I said, urgent, which would be fritzler, his insanity and obscure references is making me very unhappy. He tops my list, but and unexplained Turbo is near dear Fritzler.

unvote: Adele

(pardon me, madamoiselle)

vote: Fritzler

[Werebear]

I most certainly have NOT suggested that I leave. I want nothing of the sort. I know it's only a short time into this strange situation, but I promised I'd stick it out, and stick it out I intend to. I was just annoyed at the time zone change, when I'd been working hard to discuss as needed.

Next, you can NOT say I have not contributed at all. The single party comment was nothing, admittedly, but I've been following and trying to add value in my comments. They haven't been as voluminous as some others, but I'm not talking without trying to add something.

As to the list of the top 20 orators, I will say I'm not on the list. I happily say that, because it means nothing other than "be careful not to be a slave to a list". I do however approve of trying to find out who's behind the masks, personally, though a mass unmasking would definitely not benefit us.

Oh, and Turbovolver? Whether you're town or mafia, I don't put much stock in your list, having been all to many times misunderstood in my actions. Such phrases as "cosying up to the bandwagon leader" mean nothing to me, as it more likely suggests a connection that doesn't exist than one that does.

[Turbovolver]

Werebear, you said that if you had to post twice a day, you would request a replacement. Now I suppose perhaps that view changed when you learnt it was only once per day... that's possible. But surely you understand where my comment is coming from. I implied the fact you wanted replacement suggested you were not lurking in a suspicious fashion, so I don't know why you've replied with such fierce defense... you weren't even on my suspicion list.

You didn't nominate anyone, and I myself cant remember who the people are you find suspicious. That to me suggests you haven't been contributing. Perhaps the "at all" phrase is a bit strong, perhaps not.

Turbovolver shrugs.

You also seem to have misremembered what I have said. I did not say somebody was cosying up to the bandwagon leader... I said that SpamWise chose a cosy time to join a bandwagon on the current leader.


And Tamuz, let me just say you're lucky I don't know what Malcolm X's views on sexism were.

[Commodore Amazing]

Whoa, hey, sorry everyone. I ask for auditions too early, and now I fall asleep during the intense bloodthirst we've got going on.

Okay, here's what I dreamt up:

Adele seems scummiest to me. I've got bad points all over with her eleventh hour nomination and her vote on DrippingGoofball. And shouldn't her vote be on Turbovolver if she doesn't trust Malcolm X?

I see no reason to lynch an early claimer like DG, and I want to see what happens with the race card. I also picture a fight between Fritzler and Kelly Chen, and I'd like to see where that goes.

Here comes so massive weighing in: I have no read on Tamuz, and I'm getting strong pro-town vibes from mikeburnfire. Cogito and mathcam are swinging both ways on the pendulum. Cogito did the nominations right, but he doesn't seem to be playing fair. mathcam hasn't said much to make me think he's pro-town. The jury's still out on him; I could be persuaded to lynch him. Maybe Cogito too.

As far as everyone else:

I'm a moron, but not scum.

I don't approve of Fiasco's reasons for voting.
LoudmouthLee seems okay, but I don't get as good of reads on him as I probably should.
I'd like to take a hard look at petroleumjelly tomorrow, but I approve of his vote on Fritzler for the time being.
Someone else will have to figure out Pooky.
I'm not worried about Seol; I believe the scum will kill Seol if he's town.
Everything tss has said seems justified to me; I've got no negative vibe from him yet.
I have no scummy vibe from Thok, but I disagree with his earlier anti-VitaminR stance.
VitaminR isn't giving me much to work with; I approve of his switch from Kelly to mathcam and Tamuz, though. So far, I approve.
I empathize with Werebear.
I don't trust SpamWise, as he has parroted Pooky. That always sounds sketchy to me.

Overall, I think that the attack on Turbovolver was justified, and I haven't found anyone who seemed scummy in forcing that issue.

vote: Adele

[Thok]

Kelly Chen, I agree to your terms. I'll admit that I freaked out at your request to practice calligraphy on my back; perhaps I was seeing certain intentions where there were none. For now there is no reason for me to continue to hound you.

I shall move my vote to Mr. (Mrs?) DrippingGoofball, as she was already high on my suspicions list.

I will comment that Fritzler's spam seems truthful but irrelevant; the CD he mentioned exists, but he must have spirited it to the island by some sort of magic.

Unvote: Kelly Chen, Vote: Dripping Goofball

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Faced by a flurry of accusations from Goofball, our hero could only sigh, was she right? Were Pooky's dreams and hopes but foolish and feverish fantasies? Was our hero doomed to a life of unreciprocated love? No surely the gods would not forsake him to such a cruel fate! Pooky took another look at her face, her breath floating gaily though the night sky. No, Goofball was wrong about this, for but one smile, one laugh, one gaze of her eyes would be enough reciprocation for any amount of love Pooky could give. There would be no ocean deep enough for all the love that Pooky could give

Turbovolver, are you saying I haven't committed myself in my suspicion of you? Do you think I am uncertain about my choice to vote you? Yes the majority of my posts in the beginning of the game have been related towards overall strategy and not my suspicions. The simple explanation for this is that at that point in the game I did not have any suspicions, I do not begin my games with a preordained suspicions floating in my head. These suspicions take time to develop as I interact with others, they are based on what has been said and neat little patterns that might develop. Why would I commit myself to definite suspicions early in the game without any chance to really look at how people are behaving? Currently I am commited in my suspicions, they are at you for a number of points that you've failed to address and have misinterpreted.

When I accused you of failing to do what you promised in terms of reviewing the thread before making your vote and instead making a vote based on "trusting Tamuz" You fired back at me for "accusing you of not contributing in the game" When I told you that you had missed Adele's earlier comments about lynch block maximization and that being the reason behind her nominations, you turned that around and told me that you were voting her for her nominations and not her comments and told me to pay attention.

My point was that she's consistently followed what she's argued for in terms of lynch block maximization and not limiting our options early, if you think that such behaviour is suspicious enough to warrant lynching her, then

why did you not object earlier when she first raised the point?!??!

I honestly don't see which discussions you accuse me of skipping out on. If you'd simply tell me what you want my opinion on instead of making vastly general attacks on me for "avoiding our discussions" it would be far more helpful.

I just get very upset when someone who monologues about finding himself on the lynching block goes after someone else for "fluffing" his posts when the connections presented in that post are far more useful to us than how you feel upon finding yourself on the lynching platform.

[petroleumjelly]

PetroleumJelly was feeling rather woozy, and felt as if she needed to lie down. It had nothing to do with the current voting process, but it seemed to her as if she had other places she needed to urgently be.

"I think I shall set myself aside from this conversation for a spell. I am not feeling at all like myself. If I become possessed and do not talk like my normal self, please do not hold such things against me. I shall hopefully be back in full force in a few days."