Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[GreyICE]

Happy birthday!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I get the feeling everyone in this game is American

OR

Canadian but me.

Edited a terrible, horrible fusion of two seperate races of people. -Fate

[Vi]

Nacho's vote wasn't reasonless.

Perhaps not. If there was a reason, he did not post it. Better?

...
If I'm seriously the only person that sees it, then whatever, I'll play along.

Questions are awesome and all, but I don't see where a lot of this is going,

1) In any case, what is your view of the early game actions of LLD?
2) Were they protown?
3) What is your opinion on the wagon and the Seraphim counterwagon?
4) If LLD is scum and Seraphim is town, what are the scummiest votes on the Seraphim wagon?

1) I've already answered this question.
2) I've already answered this question too.
3) I haven't answered this question, which I pointed out.
4) I don't think LLD is scum and Seraphim is Town, nor have I given any indication that I do. In addition, you also haven't given any indication that you think LLD is scum and Seraphim is Town. In addition, I'm not going to do extensive analysis based on two flips we don't have (yes I know what I said about people deflecting to Antitown). This question is useless.

Asking you where your reads came from and whether you still find the person you're voting scummy is somehow useless or leading to a dead end? Yyyyyyyyyyyno.

But let's not argue with scum.

UK

, your thoughts on what GreyICE is doing.

I overslept; I'm out of time for the morning.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I get the feeling everyone in this game is American

OR

Canadian but me.

Edited a terrible, horrible fusion of two seperate races of people. -Fate

Super Mod Powers, ACTIVATE!

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I will not be denied.

Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian Americanadian.

...
It's funny, how determined you are to exercise your freedom that WE INVENTED.
UNGRATEFUL DUTCH.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox: why GreyICE over LLD? Just curious.

I could honestly fly for either one right now.

They both seem to be pushing bad cases and trying to make them out to be scummy when IMO they're not. But ICE seems more likely to be doing it from a scummy motivation.

@Rhinox: Why is the LLD wagon good? Did you ever explain this?

technically, all I said was it was better than the seraph wagon >.>

I really didn't like her asking seraph to claim, and her claiming the exchange between seraph and grey made seraph look bad is backwards - IMO its the other way around. And then she threw out a couple wiki tell 1-line accusations - OMGUS, nice ATE - which by the way, the post she called ATE is not even close to being ATE. And then she decides to build a case after she voted and all, which came across as artificial. And I don't think I've ever seen this case yet, either.

GREYICE LOOK HERE NAO!

Grey just curious how you came up with that thar scumlist, particularly

jahudo as town after earlier you called him a good wagon

, and UT showing up as town, where as earlier he was null. For that matter, you voted me, and now I'm town. And only 1 scum and 1 scummy. You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Rhinox: why GreyICE over LLD? Just curious.

I could honestly fly for either one right now.

They both seem to be pushing bad cases and trying to make them out to be scummy when IMO they're not. But ICE seems more likely to be doing it from a scummy motivation.

@Rhinox: Why is the LLD wagon good? Did you ever explain this?

technically, all I said was it was better than the seraph wagon >.>

I really didn't like her asking seraph to claim, and her claiming the exchange between seraph and grey made seraph look bad is backwards - IMO its the other way around. And then she threw out a couple wiki tell 1-line accusations - OMGUS, nice ATE - which by the way, the post she called ATE is not even close to being ATE. And then she decides to build a case after she voted and all, which came across as artificial.

And I don't think I've ever seen this case yet, either.

GREYICE LOOK HERE NAO!

Grey just curious how you came up with that thar scumlist, particularly

jahudo as town after earlier you called him a good wagon

, and UT showing up as town, where as earlier he was null. For that matter, you voted me, and now I'm town. And only 1 scum and 1 scummy. You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?

Rhinox, that would be because you aren't reading.

[UncertainKitten]

@Vi: I'll admit the latest barrage of questions felt careless. As in "attempting to look proactively pro town real quick here", but kinda missing the fact things had been answered. Sorta like he was trying to pump up his vitals with the serum stuff in Trauma center, but somehow missed. Except in this case his vitals were his townness. I still like Sera scum better, but GI is not outside the realm of possibility.

@Rhinox: You have a couple good points, but I have to disagree with the claim point, because that seemed fairly routine. The AtE accusation was bad, as was OMGUS, but, to be honest, Seraphim wasn't that great so I'm willing to overlook those. Finally, as for case after vote, I've done that pretty often regardless of alignment. Sometimes you want reactions. Sometimes you think it is so bleeding obvious someone is scum, that you feel no need to spell it out. Sometimes you just plain forget to tell people what you're thinking.

@LLD: Have you posted a concise collection of your points on Seraphim? IIRC I asked for one of those from both of you, and I haven't noticed either really delivering.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Vi: I'll admit the latest barrage of questions felt careless. As in "attempting to look proactively pro town real quick here", but kinda missing the fact things had been answered. Sorta like he was trying to pump up his vitals with the serum stuff in Trauma center, but somehow missed. Except in this case his vitals were his townness. I still like Sera scum better, but GI is not outside the realm of possibility.

@Rhinox: You have a couple good points, but I have to disagree with the claim point, because that seemed fairly routine. The AtE accusation was bad, as was OMGUS, but, to be honest, Seraphim wasn't that great so I'm willing to overlook those. Finally, as for case after vote, I've done that pretty often regardless of alignment. Sometimes you want reactions. Sometimes you think it is so bleeding obvious someone is scum, that you feel no need to spell it out. Sometimes you just plain forget to tell people what you're thinking.

@LLD: Have you posted a concise collection of your points on Seraphim? IIRC I asked for one of those from both of you, and I haven't noticed either really delivering.

Ugh.

You want a wall? I posted points of my case in separate posts as I read Seraphim's ISO.

If you read my recent ISO, you'll see it for the most part.

If you really want a concise wall, I'll give it though. Just let me find a time when I'm free to make a long post like that.

[UncertainKitten]

I don't need a wall. I need five sentences or less detailing your strongest points against Seraphim. You needn't include everything unless I ask for it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't need a wall. I need five sentences or less detailing your strongest points against Seraphim. You needn't include everything unless I ask for it.

This is more do-able. Give me a minute.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Primarily, Seraphim has refused to provide any valid content in his posts. He has consistently misrep'd people to try and create false suspicion on them, including many deliberate misinterpretations of GI's posts, and of my own actions. A prime example of this is his claim that when I put him to L-1, and asked for a claim (standard operating procedure) he claimed it as "rolefishing". By his own admission, he is not a new player, and is constantly telling me not to "treat him as an idiot". I'm going to hold him to his word on that, and say that

he's not so stupid as to actually believe that could be rolefishing.

Furthermore, when his original "points" were refuted, and he was asked to provide further evidence of my guilt, he responded with the following.

I'm about to pound my head into a wall.

Another big plank in the case against Seraphim is his comments about people voting on his wagon. He has shown a consistent pattern when someone votes him, that he thinks he can make a case on. When GreyICE voted him, he immediately began to attack GreyICE. He also tried to

SHIFT BLAME

off his wagon, and on to Toasty, which was my original reason for voting him. Then, once I voted him, he shifts his target, and attack me. I am convinced this is because I already had 3 votes on my wagon (At the time it was 2 RVS from UT and Antitown, plus a UK vote and felt I would be an easier target to 1v1. This is a consistent pattern that cannot be denied.

Furthermore, what really irritates me is the way he tries to pass of his scum tells as "jokes".

If you believed him every time he said something you accused him of was a "joke", you'd think he was doing a stand up comedy act or something.

I am convinced this is his strategy to avoid suspicion and blame for some of his more scummy tactics. This INCLUDES the "Why me? Why not XYZ?" tell he was throwing down.

Is this good UK? Or would you like more?

[Rhinox]

@UK: regarding the claim request, it was precisely the routineness of it that seemed wrong. "Claim because you're at L-1 and thats what happens when you're at L-1", rather than "Claim because I and everyone else voting for you thinks your scum and want to lynch you now unless you have a good claim".

@LLD: I actually don't NEED to see a case at all. I understood the points you were making in support of voting seraph. But you make all those point and vote, and then a little later you're like, by the way I'm building a case right now. Which means 1 of 3 things in this context, IMO: 1: either you're about ready to summarize, 2: you're about to come up with some epic new points, or 3: you're trying to sound impressive but you really have no intention of doing anything at all. Unless I misunderstood what you meant when you said you were building a case, I felt it was door #3 because you said you were building a case, then never presented the case you were building, unless its supposed to be the post where you quoted 1 of seraphs posts and pointed out what was wrong with it.

I don't see the same things regarding seraph that you and greyICE are going on about. But I just think you are delusional, and ICE is scum.

[UncertainKitten]

That's significantly more than 5 sentences LLD. Whatever, it'll suffice. I see most of these things anyway.

@Rhinox: To me, I figured that was implied. She wasn't JUST pushing for a claim, she was voting him because he was scummy and reminding him he should claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's significantly more than 5 sentences LLD. Whatever, it'll suffice. I see most of these things anyway.

@Rhinox: To me, I figured that was implied. She wasn't JUST pushing for a claim, she was voting him because he was scummy and reminding him he should claim.

I'm entirely to verbose UK. You know this. You didn't really expect 5 sentences would be possible, did you?

[UncertainKitten]

It'd be a good practice to learn. Concision tears through the obfuscation of :words words words:, giving way to the searing light of the sun of scumhunting, allowing everyone to quickly examine and decide who is the scum. We are scumhunters, not politicians!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It'd be a good practice to learn. Concision tears through the obfuscation of :words words words:, giving way to the searing light of the sun of scumhunting, allowing everyone to quickly examine and decide who is the scum. We are scumhunters, not politicians!

I'll keep it in mind.

In the mean time, Seraphim needs rope.

[Rhinox]

@UK: yeah I think LLD made that more clear in the posts following the claim request, but I didn't really see it that way at first, thus my initial reaction. I just didn't get the impression that everyone on the seraph wagon was ready to lynch him, and that made it feel like it was too early to ask for a claim.

[UncertainKitten]

All right, I get you now.

[GreyICE]

GREYICE LOOK HERE NAO!

Grey just curious how you came up with that thar scumlist, particularly

jahudo as town after earlier you called him a good wagon

, and UT showing up as town, where as earlier he was null. For that matter, you voted me, and now I'm town. And only 1 scum and 1 scummy. You think the rest of the scum are in the lurker list?

You mean, I have one person as scum, one person as scummy, and 4 nulls.

Do I think all three scum are in that list of 6 people? Is this such a bad bet?

Am I married to the list and will never ever ever change my reads no matter what happens? No. But if my reads change from here on out there will be reasons for it.

UT was null. His unvote was remarkably town. So, town.


As for my questions, here is what Vi has written about the early game actions of LLD:

So... You're guaranteeing that you're not the same alignment as UK, but merely implying that UK is scum...?

I don't feel my question was answered. Certainly not a high-caliber answer. The next few posts were all setup speculation, and then suddenly Vi is fencesitting and insisting that she's answered questions. I am not happy, oh no I am not.

3) What is your opinion on the wagon and the Seraphim counterwagon?

3) I haven't answered this question, which I pointed out.

I really dislike fence sitting when we have two early game wagons. I've seen it a lot when scum are sitting there watching two wagons. Sometimes one is a town wagon and one is a scum wagon, and they're deciding whether to bus. Sometimes they're both town wagons. From the way Vi is directing attention towards LLD and not doing the same for Seraphim, I was logically assuming that she felt LLD was scum and Seraphim was town.

And what was the response?

4) I don't think LLD is scum and Seraphim is Town,

nor have I given any indication that I do.

Well given you're focusing about TEN TIMES the attention on LLD as you are on Seraphim, I'd have said you gave fucking good indication you did.


Those questions weren't lazy, I was getting somewhere. And where I was getting is what to think of Vi based on Seraphim and LLD's alignments. And if LLD is town and Seraphim is scum, which is what I believe, then Vi?

Doesn't look good.

So now I can revise my list. Vi = scum.

Still unsure on the third, Rhinox. Sorry. Probably in the four names I listed as null.

[UncertainKitten]

@GI: Vi's alignment can't be determined yet. Don't tell me you've gotten lazy and not done your research.

Sorry I didn't tell you sooner, but it was amusing to watch.

You should EASILY be able to figure out why I'm saying this.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Anyway, be back in three or four hours. I have to get all RESPONSIBILITY CHAMPION on shit >=[!

[GreyICE]

@GI: Vi's alignment can't be determined yet. Don't tell me you've gotten lazy and not done your research.

Sorry I didn't tell you sooner, but it was amusing to watch.

You should EASILY be able to figure out why I'm saying this.

If you mean meta, meh, I read it. Don't care for meta overly much.

There's way too much attention at one wagon and way too little at the other for her to claim to be perfectly neutral on the issue. And if LLD is town and Seraphim is scum, there is a very, very obvious scum motive for that.

[Kdub]

@UK: regarding the claim request, it was precisely the routineness of it that seemed wrong. "Claim because you're at L-1 and thats what happens when you're at L-1", rather than "Claim because I and everyone else voting for you thinks your scum and want to lynch you now unless you have a good claim".

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'm going to comment here. I agree in principle that claiming

should

happen when there is clear intent to lynch, and not just because someone happens to be at L-1. However, I think the "claim at L-1" mentality is pervasive enough that I don't think it's necessarily a scum tell to ask for one in that scenario. That is, I have seen players vote someone to L-1 and immediately ask for a claim and later turn out to be town.

[UncertainKitten]

@GI: I don't care for meta myself. But in this case it kinda applies. Save your case for D2. I sympathize with Vi on this issue. I was basically in your shoes last game I played with her, so.