Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[Coral]

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

I don't think I'm the best setup-strat-solver here. Maybe not even in the top half

I'm happy to get discussion going, though

[Faker]

Anyway, howdy everyone! I've just finished my finals season for the semester, so I'm pretty tired. TBD if I go out or hang out here or nap.

I've chewed on where to go for a bit, but tried to avoid thinking about it too much. I'm super excited to play with everyone, but I'm going to try to maintain a nice balance between tryhard and lighthearted fun. I mentioned to a few people before the game that this table will be either very fun or very "9 friends go to an abandoned cabin in a horror movie as mutual tensions grow" vibe, and I'd like to avoid the latter.

I'm pretty indifferent at the end of the day. I think Gate would be pretty fun to run-back, and puts scum in between a rock and a hard place. I think Wall would be a bad fit but I'd get to play longer. I think Keep is really suited to my playstyle, but I want to hang around and enjoy the game for awhile and that tends to resolve early. It's a good place to quarantine me, but I'm also hoping that enough people have strong scumgames here that I get to go elsewhere.

I generally oppose Coral's suggestion and am curious to hear more of the reasoning behind it.

[Chara]

I think chemistry between people will matter more for games than like "put a consensus townread in game x" because townreads can be wrong if you get them all right you win anyway. Maybe picking scummy players for certain games kind of like gerrymanders your EV though? Maybe that's more impactful.

It seems like a nontrivial setup, brainwrinkler. Which can make me worried about dayplay health.

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

the second sentence here makes no sense to me but it does sound very intelligent.

but i think i agree on the point that the important thing is finding scum and finding town and the rest will fall where it falls.

[catboi]

do you think

there is great value

in turning the wall into a second gate?

What do you mean by that? put a top consensus townread there?

like

i feel like

the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep

whereas the main benefit to me locking in the wall would be turning the wall into a second gate

so i was wondering if you thought there was great value in that since it seems you've been thinking about the setup et cetera

I was typing out an answer to this when I realized I don't actually need to give scum advice on how to play. If you think you'll be able to be reliably read as town and are comfortable with hammering, go for it.


I'm personally aiming to not stress especially hard over this game and am likely to make a choice based on entertainment value. We'll see how long that lasts.

[Chara]

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

hi chara!

yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me

i don't know you, i think. do you have a habit of obvtowning as town?

*nostalgic, troubled sigh* i used to...

[catboi]

Anyway, howdy everyone! I've just finished my finals season for the semester, so I'm pretty tired. TBD if I go out or hang out here or nap.

I've chewed on where to go for a bit, but tried to avoid thinking about it too much. I'm super excited to play with everyone, but I'm going to try to maintain a nice balance between tryhard and lighthearted fun. I mentioned to a few people before the game that this table will be either very fun or very "9 friends go to an abandoned cabin in a horror movie as mutual tensions grow" vibe, and I'd like to avoid the latter.

I'm pretty indifferent at the end of the day. I think Gate would be pretty fun to run-back, and puts scum in between a rock and a hard place. I think Wall would be a bad fit but I'd get to play longer. I think Keep is really suited to my playstyle, but I want to hang around and enjoy the game for awhile and that tends to resolve early. It's a good place to quarantine me, but I'm also hoping that enough people have strong scumgames here that I get to go elsewhere.

I generally oppose Coral's suggestion and am curious to hear more of the reasoning behind it.

go to the wall with me or ur a coward

[Faker]

2) On day 2, I think it also benefits scum a lot if there is an open consensus about the order of resolving the locations. It allows them to plan ahead, plant associatives, and be prepared for what's coming. I suggest being flexible.

This part. I strongly believe that more information/transparency is better for town in virtually every scenario. I don't think of scum planning, planting associatives, etc being bad things. Defense predicated on obscurity really defeats the entire point of mafia.

[absinthe]

I'm not familiar with you, Demona.

I wanted to go to the keep last time for similar reasons, I tend to townhunt/POE most games. And I felt pretty confident I could obvtown even as an unknown alt.

I blew the unknown part with my second post. Still managed to obvtown, not that it mattered.

[Coral]

I'm pretty indifferent at the end of the day. I think Gate would be pretty fun to run-back, and puts scum in between a rock and a hard place. I think Wall would be a bad fit but I'd get to play longer. I think Keep is really suited to my playstyle, but I want to hang around and enjoy the game for awhile and that tends to resolve early. It's a good place to quarantine me, but I'm also hoping that enough people have strong scumgames here that I get to go elsewhere.

I generally oppose Coral's suggestion and am curious to hear more of the reasoning behind it.

I had the same thought pregame that probably quarantining you to the one you are likely enjoy least is not as necessary in this run as the previous one.

Which suggestion do you disagree with? The flexible solve order, or the closely examining early decisioners?

[demona]

It seems like there's an implied assumption here that you are or will be obvtown, is that what you're saying? What makes you special in that regard over anyone else, I guess is what I'm asking.

i don't think it makes me special or anything but past history

like i've never been eliminated as town in a traditional elimination (closest were the 4/4 split in slaughter hour and the werewolf majority game) or shot by a vigilante or anything

so regardless of my capabilities or lack there of of actually finding other towns/mafias

like i get that there is and should be an expectation for me to do so and i will do my best to do so

but that's probably not my greatest strength whereas the keep probably would be best application of my skillset

though if someone familiar with me disagrees i'd be interested in thoughts and such

[Faker]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

[Isis]

I think chemistry between people will matter more for games than like "put a consensus townread in game x" because townreads can be wrong if you get them all right you win anyway. Maybe picking scummy players for certain games kind of like gerrymanders your EV though? Maybe that's more impactful.

It seems like a nontrivial setup, brainwrinkler. Which can make me worried about dayplay health.

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

the second sentence here makes no sense to me but it does sound very intelligent.

but i think i agree on the point that the important thing is finding scum and finding town and the rest will fall where it falls.

It's not a fully fleshed out idea but my brain was saying like, if you make all 3 games barely successfully sortable then your EV is high, if you pick that out by hedging the difficult players with easy games and easy players with hard games

[Isis]

As I say that it sounds like one of the nine zillion things that is actually+EV but consistently damages town dayplay then winrate more than it helps if it goes into everyone's headspace

[absinthe]

I think chemistry between people will matter more for games than like "put a consensus townread in game x" because townreads can be wrong if you get them all right you win anyway. Maybe picking scummy players for certain games kind of like gerrymanders your EV though? Maybe that's more impactful.

It seems like a nontrivial setup, brainwrinkler. Which can make me worried about dayplay health.

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

the second sentence here makes no sense to me but it does sound very intelligent.

but i think i agree on the point that the important thing is finding scum and finding town and the rest will fall where it falls.

It's not a fully fleshed out idea but my brain was saying like, if you make all 3 games barely successfully sortable then your EV is high, if you pick that out by hedging the difficult players with easy games and easy players with hard games

Who's difficult and who's easy to you?

[Faker]

I actually really like the mechanics of Keep, I fuckin' love townfinding games and tend to hate three way elo/1v1 grinders. Gate is more for the chance of the clear and I don't tend to lose 1v1s in any world

[demona]

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

hi chara!

yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me

i don't know you, i think. do you have a habit of obvtowning as town?

*nostalgic, troubled sigh* i used to...

we most recently encountered eachother when i was backup moderating the silent star you were mafia in, and before that the binding of isaac game you moderated

[Chara]

i agree with the faker, catching scum flailing in surprise can happen but i don't feel one can plan for it.

my eyes keep reading your icon as a delicious cookie. :<

[catboi]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

[Coral]

2) On day 2, I think it also benefits scum a lot if there is an open consensus about the order of resolving the locations. It allows them to plan ahead, plant associatives, and be prepared for what's coming. I suggest being flexible.

This part. I strongly believe that more information/transparency is better for town in virtually every scenario. I don't think of scum planning, planting associatives, etc being bad things. Defense predicated on obscurity really defeats the entire point of mafia.

That's a reasonable (and unsurprising!) take. My belief from previous runs is that scum struggled the most when town did unexpected things in the midgame. I think a rigid solve order does put all of the pieces on the table, which allows for the more chess-like analysis of how things develop, and that's valid.

I think the reason I lean towards wanting to inject some areas of unpredictability here is that we really only have very few points of information gain compared to a standard game. The depth is very shallow, there's very few points where a flip or new piece of mechanical info will allow people to step back and reassess. There's a limited number of moves to be made in the game. I think if scum know what IC especially is thinking and where they want to go, it makes things fairly easy for them.

I'm open to disagreement, as I said, but that's my reasoning at least.

[catboi]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

[absinthe]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

You say this like it's a good thing!

[Chara]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

[absinthe]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

Me-ish

Prism is very persuasive.

[catboi]

This is way too fast for my brain atm LMAO

I know you're mostly joking but any game with me/you/skitter would be the biggest shitshow, but ~we'll see~

either you're scum and get your shot to humiliate me or we have a nightmare 3p that will ruin us both emotionally this sounds ideal to me

You say this like it's a good thing!

for faker yeah

I just find the prospect amusing

[Faker]

I don't think it's a good idea to put us in a game together cat. I know you know but I don't really want to shit talk atm sorry.