Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[bird1111]

He means too many scum

And though I don't know a whole lot about balance, this does seem balaneced.

[Lowell]

He means too many scum

And though I don't know a whole lot about balance, this does seem balaneced.

Yeah I meant too many scum. But whatever, I'll assume people know more about this than me. Enough of that, let's get going.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There are 3 mafia, how is that scum heavy ? There's always 3 mafia in these games.

[ryan]

I like it. 3 masons, 3 mafia and 5 townies, a great setup that makes it very interesting on who's telling the truth and who isn't

[Aimee]

I agree. It is super wow amazing woot!

[ryan]

I agree. It is

super wow amazing woot

!

That quote is exactly why Day 1 is fun, cause you can say something like this and get away with it

[Adel]

In case anyone missed it, here is an earlier Friends and Enemies game: Mini 232
Major Differences: Closed Game. Night start. 12 Players. 4 Masons.

Looking over it, I am not sure what lessons we can draw from it since roles were unknown. Is there an Open Friends and Enemies I missed? I am not sure how to tell the difference between masons and scum on Day 1. As near as I can tell the tells should be about the same. But then I am a new player, so if someone could point me in the direction to a (finished) game, wiki, or other resource, I would appreciate it.

[Lawrencelot]

The tells shouldn't be all the same. If you look at scum in any game, you don't only look at who would be scum partners, normally you just look at which individuals act scummy. Masons shouldn't act the same as scum, as they are on the town side. The only thing similar is that they can both talk outside the thread, but I don't think that's what we should look most at.

[Lowell]

In case anyone missed it, here is an earlier Friends and Enemies game: Mini 232
Major Differences: Closed Game. Night start. 12 Players. 4 Masons.

Looking over it, I am not sure what lessons we can draw from it since roles were unknown. Is there an Open Friends and Enemies I missed? I am not sure how to tell the difference between masons and scum on Day 1. As near as I can tell the tells should be about the same. But then I am a new player, so if someone could point me in the direction to a (finished) game, wiki, or other resource, I would appreciate it.

Wow, town got F'ing routed. Let's not do that again, okay?

From reading that, it seems the key is for the mason group to figure out the mafia group before the mafia figure out the masons. Either one, if committed, can pretty much control the day's lynch. Clearly once the mafia lynched the first mason, it was all over.

And the townies have to guess right.... yippee.

[ryan]

Just to get some discussion started (since we've made it through the "random voting process" And the thread has been pretty quiet).

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

Lowell: Do you believe the town has the advantage right now?

Adel: Being a new player (as you stated above) What is your strategy in this game for finding sucm?

[Adel]

Adel: Being a new player (as you stated above) What is your strategy in this game for finding sucm?

Post analysis. This thread in the forums gaves me some ideas http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5301

MrBuddyLee wrote:
1) Inconsisency of suspicion
2) Phrases that sound like lying
3) Overedited posts indicating overcautiousness
4) Defensiveness
5) Lack of curiosity

I like his list.

I'll also look at patterns in lurking/inactivity, and for arguments that depend upon a logical fallacy or are unexplained. And people who don't forward original insights but just follow the arguments of others.

[Lowell]

Lowell: Do you believe the town has the advantage right now?

I've said that I don't.

Without a cop, we're going to have to rely on the masons to figure out who the scum are. The power to know 2 other pro-town players is pretty decisive, compared to the rest of the town.

The key, to me, will be to hit scum EARLY. As in, day 1. As soon as even one mason gets lynched we're pretty much playing a vanilla game (2 person mason team not nearly as powerful) with a huge scum percentage. I cannot realistically see the town winning should we lose a mason before we find a scum.

My

personal

goal will be to drag on conversation and make sure the masons don't think I'm scum. The one advantage we have is that the masons have a much better chance of catching the scum (3/8 of remaining players AND controlling 3 of 6 necessary votes) than any pro-town players usually do at the beginning of the game. They can almost hunt by process of elimination if they can guess at enough townies.

[Sir Tornado]

My personal goal will be to drag on conversation and make sure the masons don't think I'm scum. The one advantage we have is that the masons have a much better chance of catching the scum (3/8 of remaining players AND controlling 3 of 6 necessary votes) than any pro-town players usually do at the beginning of the game. They can almost hunt by process of elimination if they can guess at enough townies.

So, are you saying we should just wait for the Masons to take the lead?

On the flip side, if they do, wouldn't the Mafia have a better chance in spotting them?

[Ripley]

I am not sure how to tell the difference between masons and scum on Day 1. As near as I can tell the tells should be about the same. But then I am a new player, so if someone could point me in the direction to a (finished) game, wiki, or other resource, I would appreciate it.

I've given some thought to things I'd expect masons to do, and things I'd expect scum to do, though not as much thought as I'd like because the game filled up so quickly and I've been so busy the last few days. But it has to be a mistake to start saying "look out for scum/masons to do this" right at the start of the game, you're just warning people not to do the very things that might otherwise have helped you spot them.

Lowell's post reads like a great long excuse for why he personally isn't going to be working to find the scum, which he seems to think is strictly up to the masons. He says his own personal game plan for the day is to drag on conversation and to make sure the masons don't think he's scum. As Sir Tornado points out, if all the townies adopted this strategy the masons would have to do the same in order to avoid being targets. That leaves just the scum hunting scum, which is unlikely to be a winning scenario.

I am suspicious of anyone who finds reasons not to hunt scum.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

[Sir Tornado]

The key, to me, will be to hit scum EARLY. As in, day 1. As soon as even one mason gets lynched we're pretty much playing a vanilla game (2 person mason team not nearly as powerful) with a huge scum percentage. I cannot realistically see the town winning should we lose a mason before we find a scum.

Actually, I think we are in deep trouble if we don't get one scum on the first lynch. The Mafia can get a mason at night too. That is exactly what happened in the

Mini 232

Adel gave a link to in post 31. Actually, in that game Mafia got 3 masons in the first 3 nights, but the difference is, that there were 4 Masons in that game compared to only 3 in this one.

[Sir Tornado]

Damn... sorry for the messed up formating in my last post...

Fixed by the mod.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Albert B. Rampage (1) -- Lawrencelot
Adel (2) -- bird1111, Albert B. Rampage
Aimee (1) -- ryan
bird1111 (2) -- A Papaya, theopor_COD
Ripley (2) -- Sir Tornado, Lowell
Lowell (2) -- Adel, Ripley
ryan (1) -- Aimee


Not Voting: Nobody
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[ryan]

unvote

No suspect as of yet but I'm sure I'll have one soon. The reason for my unvote is we are well past the "random vote stage" so it's time to start huntin some scum. 8)

[Lawrencelot]

Lowell's post reads like a great long excuse for why he personally isn't going to be working to find the scum, which he seems to think is strictly up to the masons. He says his own personal game plan for the day is to drag on conversation and to make sure the masons don't think he's scum. As Sir Tornado points out, if all the townies adopted this strategy the masons would have to do the same in order to avoid being targets. That leaves just the scum hunting scum, which is unlikely to be a winning scenario.

I am suspicious of anyone who finds reasons not to hunt scum.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

I don't think he means that the townies should not hunt scum, although you could read his post that way. He just says that masons have more chance in finding scum than townies, which is true of course. This could happen too if all townies adapted this strategy: assume all townies act like they're not scummy. The masons would all vote for scum if everything goes right. Scum would vote for either mason or townie. If most townies didn't vote yet, they would see lots of votes on scum (from the masons) and lots of votes on mason or town (from the scum). The townies would only have to find out which one of two players is scum, rather than who of the 11 other players is scum. This is just an assumption though, and easier said than done. There might as well happen the same thing as I quoted from you.

I'm not saying that all townies should act like Lowell said, but it is a bit suspicious that you vote him for something like that. It does create discussion though, and you might be right.

[bird1111]

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

I think they are a useful tool for getting reactions, though you do have to watch out for scum-driven ones

[ryan]

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

I think they are a useful tool for getting reactions, though you do have to watch out for scum-driven ones

What about the ones that make newbie townies get defensive and look scummy? Couldn't bandwagons be bad that way?

[bird1111]

bird1111, what do you think about bandwagons?

I think they are a useful tool for getting reactions, though you do have to watch out for scum-driven ones

What about the ones that make newbie townies get defensive and look scummy? Couldn't bandwagons be bad that way?

Sometimes, but the info that can be gained from those bandwagons, whether they go lynch or not can be useful.

[ryan]

Speaking of "information gained" some more posting by everybody would help out

[Adel]

Sometimes, but the info that can be gained from those bandwagons, whether they go lynch or not can be useful.

hmmm, both of the people who have their vote on you haven't posted on this page yet. I haven't come across a hard definition of what lurking is, but 4 days and greater than one page should qualify.

[ryan]

Adel: Agreed, that is what I was trying to say earlier, we have ALOT of lurkers right now