Newbie #1019 (Game Over)

[camn]

vote Nazgul

That is actually the first thing I thought when I saw the playerlist. That silly "u".
Plus self-voting in RVS generally means you have something to hide.
You don't want to show your hand, or give us any info we might be able to use later, so you self vote. No info for the town. No new enemies. No subconscious telegraphing of pre-game knowledge.

[GPT]

Seriously though. I have to Google search the Wikipedia page for Nazgûl and copy-paste it every time I log in on a new computer.

But it looks cool though. And it wouldn't be correct, otherwise!

Or just hold down the Alt key and type 0251 then release Alt.
ûûûû

Oh, and a few "just for fun" questions, except maybe the last one:

1. Origin of your username?
2. Why'd you choose your avatar?
3. What, in your opinion, is the dumbest possible move you can pull in Mafia?

1. My initials
2. Have a frustrating night at the pub where many people couldn't see the connection between casual racism and the rise of nazi-like parties and you'll feel the same. (it's a quote from Despair Inc)
3. A Scum trying to mason gambit D1 and being left to hang by his partner cause he didn't want to draw any attention. obviously lead to both being lynched.

[Withnail]

Hello everyone! This will be my 2nd game of Mafia - hope it's a good one. In my first game I was a very regular contributor, and I plan to post almost every day in this one, too.

@Olinea and your questions:
1. Withnail is a character in a film called "Withnail and I", and ...
2. ... that's him in my avatar picture, played by Richard E. Grant.

Re your Q3 on dumb moves, in my last game one of the players told this story:

I won a game as scum when a vanilla townie lied and said he was a cop and had a scum investigation on another townie (postgame he said he was 100% sure and saying he was a cop was the only way to make others believe him...). When said "investigaged scum" was lynched, everyone went back to the "cop" and lynched him the next day. Easiest game I ever played.

That's pretty dumb.


Some questions of my own.

@Thian:
a) Why did you vote for me?
b) Why did you vote without giving a reason? Do you often do that?

@camn: It says "soundtracker" under your name - what's the story behind that?

@everyone: What is your attitude to lurkers? (I like what camn had to say on this.)
In my first game I voted for lurkers throughout Day 1 - what do you all think of this as a strategy?


In keeping with that tradition,

Vote: Reilster

- for being the last to post.

[Reilster]

Hi one and all.

I am

Reilster

, and I apologise for starting late, absolutely criminal.

I am a complete noob, have read a few games before, but personally have never taken part, so when I don't understand you, it's me, not you!

1. My actual last name is Reilly, one of my friends once said Reilster, and it stuck.
2. Well personally I love SpongeBob Squarepants, and also have a rather square head, leading to me being nicknamed 'SpongeBob Squarehead'.....
3. Probably posting a question so you can pick up tips on what not to do.......

Now on with me vote,

VOTE: Olinea

Oh, and a few "just for fun" questions, except maybe the last one:

Any person who takes the first day chat away from accusing is trying to stall...

Really, I don't believe it, but it's as good a reason as any now.

[Thian]

I will respond as soon as I can my modem is cutting in and out I have attempted several times. It won't be until monday until I am able to write something. Thanks for your patience everyone.

[Thian]

Seems like tech support assisted, so no delay in posting.

GPT: you really danced around those questions which I don't particularly like.

So please answer them directly.

1. Why could you not pick a person yourself to vote for? Why did you leave it up to randomizer to do your dirty work. If you don't know anyone, it still would have been random.

2. Would your vote be different if you knew someone already in the game?

3. You did ask for clarification here. So I will clarify.

Post 6 you wrote
"As I don't know anyone on the site to vote for based on previous games (as standard for this website) randomizer says vote..."

Why would you vote someone based on previous games during an RVS? If all games are set up randomly to begin with you can't know specifically who is guilty based on previous games.

Camn: I have only played 1 game with him. It was my first game on Mafiascum.net I did miserable. However one thing I did notice on his play, was when he was being lynched, he did face off against some pretty stubborn people. He didnt' bother trying to explain any further after his claim nor did he try to scum hunt anymore. So this is my second game with him which I am glad to at least to know one other person in this game and thats what I remember from the experience with him.

Nazgul: You stated Self Hammering is the dumbest move. Would you consider self voting, against a town win condition? Why did you self vote?

Withnail:
1. It was Random vote, your name was the first that caught my eye.
2. Well, this is my third game, do I vote without reason? During RVS probably more so, but later on, I vote with reason.
If you would have liked me to state my reason for an Random Vote, here it is. Your name started with W. and that is the beginning initial of my brothers name and so I voted for you because it reminded me of sibiling rivalry at its best.

Your reaction to the random vote seems concerned. Why did you come across concerned that my vote was on you during RVS?

Reilster: You jumped onto Olinea for stalling the game? Do you honestly think the intent was there was scum trying to stop a line of conversation? My first game, I had unintentionally stopped a line of conversation and was accused of being scummy for it. I was lynched as townie. I think its a weak excuse at this point to accuse someone of being scummy for, it was just an excuse reason so you can easily hop onto a bandwagon.

Unvote: Withnail
Vote: Reilster

[camn]

Hmm. I tend to agree with Reilister here: those particular questions seem like they couldn't possibly yield any useful game info, and thus would clutter up day 1 with garbage.
Is this be design? I havnt decided yet... And I was willing to let it play out and see if any good info came of it. But now let's ask:
@olinea: did you envision getting anything useful from those questions? DID you get anything useful? Or was this just a scum smokescreen to give everyone the impression that you were hunting?

Also: re custom titles:
They are decided here: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=13686
I think the discussion re: me starts around page 8. The short version? I like music, and I had a run of games where I pulled tracker roles every time.

[Olinea]

@Nazgûl

So you know, self-hammering is a potentially gamebreaking scum move. Hammers provide a lot of information for the town, and if a scum member selfhammers, chaos ensues, as you don't know who would have dropped the hammer and why, leaving the other scum member to blend in easily.

@GPT

LOVE despair.com. I actually have one of their calendars hanging up in my dorm; this month is "Goals" (It's best to avoid standing directly between a competitive jerk and his goals). Always loved that picture.

@Withnail

My opinions on lurking vary. I understand that real-life obligations can get in the way, and the "who's online" bar isn't always reliable (I've called out a player for lurking after he disappeared from the bar, only to have him show up and post 30 seconds later saying "No I'm not"). However,

constant

lurkers are a problem, since if you lurk as town you may draw suspicion to yourself and away from the two who need it. I'd say I'm more opposed to "active lurking" than classic "lurking" (For those who don't know, "active lurking" is posting content-less stuff to make it seem like you're helping out, but in reality are providing nothing), so I'll be watching for consistent "fluff" posters.

@Reilster

I've reiterated that it's meant purely for fun. Most of the answers here fall into the category of what I was looking for. I was not looking for a vote. And "first day chat" is going to be longer than 1 page. If anything, taking the game away from random voting is going to help the town because it transitions into the phase where we start analyzing information -- the backbone of the game.

@camn

My example was "Claiming Serial Killer in a Newbie game", so you tell me if I was looking for stuff not to do here. (Answer: No) I don't think many games get the ball rolling into scumhunting on page 1 anyways; it was an icebreaker.

[Withnail]

Withnail:
1. It was Random vote, your name was the first that caught my eye.
2. Well, this is my third game, do I vote without reason? During RVS probably more so, but later on, I vote with reason.
If you would have liked me to state my reason for an Random Vote, here it is. Your name started with W. and that is the beginning initial of my brothers name and so I voted for you because it reminded me of sibiling rivalry at its best.

Your reaction to the random vote seems concerned. Why did you come across concerned that my vote was on you during RVS?

Not concerned that you voted

for me

, but curious that you voted

without a reason

. It seems to me always best to explain a vote, even if the reason is to do with sibling initials (IMO a perfectly good reason, at this stage.)

[Reilster]

Reilster: You jumped onto Olinea for stalling the game? Do you honestly think the intent was there was scum trying to stop a line of conversation? My first game, I had unintentionally stopped a line of conversation and was accused of being scummy for it. I was lynched as townie. I think its a weak excuse at this point to accuse someone of being scummy for, it was just an excuse reason so you can easily hop onto a bandwagon.

VOTE: Olinea

Oh, and a few "just for fun" questions, except maybe the last one:

Any person who takes the first day chat away from accusing is trying to stall...

Really, I don't believe it, but it's as good a reason as any now.

Did you even read my post?

It's the start of the day, I have no real reason to vote for anyone (as I said) but it gets people talking and helps us find out the scum.

You seem to be scaremongering and trying to start a bandwagon against

anyone

, while religiously defending Olinea, that I clearly said was a 'weak' vote.

Therefore,

UNVOTE: Olinea
VOTE: Thain

To be honest, I'm still not sure about this vote, as I actually approve of your methods of getting people out to talk, but whether you're doing that to find out who the scum is, or to protect your own hind, I'm not to sure.

[camn]

I don't think many games get the ball rolling into scumhunting on page 1 anyways; it was an icebreaker.

I understand that.. and I have seen plenty of questionlists before... but usually they have some playsyle-digging behind them. Like : What is your favorite role to play? or What is your biggest scumtell?
Yours . . I don't see how they can give us ANY info at all.
That aside.. i wonder to myself: was that an intentional scum move? did Olinea have a pro-town plan? Or was it random?

So I guess my question for YOU is: Why THOSE questions?
You already said "just for background info"... but why? Why did you want background info?

[Reilster]

/Subscribing

[Thian]

Reilster:
now listen here you! don't you go and tell me I didn't read. *shakes fist of doom*

I did read. You did give a reason for your vote.
now in your recent post 34 you are saying you had no real reason. Why are you back peddling? You did have a a reason for your vote.

you voted Olinea on account of trying to stall the game.
you pulled back with a set of uncertainty when you wrote "I really don't believe it" in the same post too.

so why are you voting in something you don't believe in in the first place?

you didn't answer my question Reilster, so please answer that.
Do you honestly think that the intent of the double post by olinea was scum trying to stop a line of conversation?

Don't misrep me, Pin point exactly where I have attempted to start a bandwagon against anyone?

my reasons for protecting Olinea at this point in time is this. I had done a similar thing in my first game of Mafia, which people turned around and told me I was scummy for it when I was not, it was not intentional in me doing that. Don't get me wrong, if Olinea happens to do anything questionable, I will be asking questions about it. It takes fine tuning to know when comments or explanation of questions can shut down a line of conversation imperative for scum hunting.

and if I was religiously defending Olinea, wouldn't it be more than just 1 post? Religiously means in this context doing something habitually and more than just once prior to this time. Like waking up to a morning coffee daily..... one post ((prior to this one)) is hardly religious.

[Thian]

oh and rikka, come around again would like to hear some of your thoughts on the start of your first game here.
What key things would help you in your goal to win?

[Olinea]

I don't think many games get the ball rolling into scumhunting on page 1 anyways; it was an icebreaker.

I understand that.. and I have seen plenty of questionlists before... but usually they have some playsyle-digging behind them. Like : What is your favorite role to play? or What is your biggest scumtell?
Yours . . I don't see how they can give us ANY info at all.
That aside.. i wonder to myself: was that an intentional scum move? did Olinea have a pro-town plan? Or was it random?

So I guess my question for YOU is: Why THOSE questions?
You already said "just for background info"... but why? Why did you want background info?

I like to connect with who I'm playing with. The first two were a bit out of curiosity, since everyone likes to talk about themselves. As for the suggestions of "What is your favorite role" or "What is your biggest scumtell?", I feel that questions like that would be a lot more controversial than #3 was, since I'm sure I would end up with a response like "Did you ask that scumtell question to know what to avoid doing??". We started off with RVS, not RQS. If you are concerned that my questions were simply "fluff" posts, as I had described earlier, I would attribute that to the fact that it was still Page 1 and we were still in RVS.

[Olinea]

you voted Olinea on account of trying to stall the game.
you pulled back with a set of uncertainty when you wrote "I really don't believe it" in the same post too.

Well, it depends on whether you consider us out of RVS yet. I certainly did not attempt to "stall the game", since the content of posts shouldn't be limited to answering those questions and then we're back to square one. It was a hasty vote on his part, but the only way to learn is to get your feet wet.

[Reilster]

Reilster:
now listen here you! don't you go and tell me I didn't read. *shakes fist of doom*

I did read. You did give a reason for your vote.
now in your recent post 34 you are saying you had no real reason. Why are you back peddling? You did have a a reason for your vote.

you voted Olinea on account of trying to stall the game.
you pulled back with a set of uncertainty when you wrote "I really don't believe it" in the same post too.

so why are you voting in something you don't believe in in the first place?

you didn't answer my question Reilster, so please answer that.
Do you honestly think that the intent of the double post by olinea was scum trying to stop a line of conversation?

Don't misrep me, Pin point exactly where I have attempted to start a bandwagon against anyone?

my reasons for protecting Olinea at this point in time is this. I had done a similar thing in my first game of Mafia, which people turned around and told me I was scummy for it when I was not, it was not intentional in me doing that. Don't get me wrong, if Olinea happens to do anything questionable, I will be asking questions about it. It takes fine tuning to know when comments or explanation of questions can shut down a line of conversation imperative for scum hunting.

and if I was religiously defending Olinea, wouldn't it be more than just 1 post? Religiously means in this context doing something habitually and more than just once prior to this time. Like waking up to a morning coffee daily..... one post ((prior to this one)) is hardly religious.

Honestly, I don't think it was a scummy move, hence the 'Really, I don't believe it, but it's as good a reason as any now.'

It was a good way to get my first vote, and got people talking.

Then the conversation question. As camn has said, I don't think it was a scummy move, but it has no revelvance to the game, at least ask something a bit more personal about their playstyle etc. but overall I don't think olinea is scum.

I thank you for explaining your reason for

protecting

olinea, I realise that it was simply to get me talking and the use of 'religiously' was stupid by me.

You'll see that through-out the game, I like to use over-the-top lanuage to get my point across! The only justifiable reason is the fact that in half of your posts (before your most recent) you have defended him, and then didn't seem to even want to question him about it. But you said about your first game, and that makes sense now.
The bandwagon impression I got was by you chucking around a few suspisions and then waited to see if anyone would back you up, if I was scum that would be a nice tactic to use.

But on re-reading your post, I only glanced at it and assumed that they were all suspisions, whereas it was only 2 out of 4.

Secondly, in both posts, I've said my first vote was just because I had no concrete reason.

Now on with me vote,

VOTE: Olinea

Oh, and a few "just for fun" questions, except maybe the last one:

Any person who takes the first day chat away from accusing is trying to stall...

Really, I don't believe it, but it's as good a reason as any now.

To me that’s not 'back peddaling’ in both posts I said my reasoning was very weak, I said there was no concrete evidence to support my vote, I had a reason, but I didn’t believe it. It was a ploy to get people talking (and it’s worked so far).
Why do you believe it to be ‘back-peddaling’?

[Thian]

Reilster: quick response.

The reason why I feel it is back peddling, you put your vote down with a genuine concern of Olinea, and that was a good reason for you at the time. You second guess yourself in the same post, then in post 34 you say you have no real reason. Now you say in post 41 You think Olinea is not scum.

Then you take off your vote from Olinea and place it on me, Are you satisfied with how far you questioned Olinea on your concerns with him? How scummy am I currently?

do you feel there are others that need to step up and begin speaking for you to feel confident where your vote is to be placed?
At what point do you think scum would jump on a bandwagon?

[Reilster]

I'm going to bed now, and so this is off my iPhone, don't expect any in depth answers (I know it sounds like an excuse, but really I can't quote/see all posts at once, so this will be short and sweet.

The reason I second guessed myself was to be transparent, I was questioning my reasons and so showed you my thinking behind it.

I think olinea is not scum, as far as I can tell, you seem to be more extreme, either scum or very keen townie (which is good). But you outweighed olinea so I changed my vote to see how you would react. It has been interesting. The main thing I have to say is that I seem to be answering all the questions t the moment, but you are answering mine (I think, I'll check tomorrow).

At the moment I am totally unconfident about my vote, and I would probably need a bit more evidence against someone to feel confident that they're scum.

As for the last question I am a complete noob and would have no clue to be honest. Why is that question relevant?

[Olinea]

Reilster, so far you seem to be keeping up. You recognize that a vote is not definite, that there isn't enough evidence to start actually labelling people as scum but there

is

a need to start getting people to talk, and not lurking. Picking up the game quickly and I'm willing to forget the vote you placed on me.

That being said, the question is relevant because a scum's job is to blend in. If they cast the first vote, a lack of evidence or a "Why the heck would he do that?" may arise and put suspicion on 'em. Generally speaking, scum candidates tend to be the third and fourth voters, because they can simply parrot (repeat) the case against the target, maybe find something else, and justify the vote. It's scary to throw a hammer, especially for scum since they already know the flip, and once it comes up town, the hammerer is a huge target. Even hammering scum is sketchy, since people are fully aware of bussing and its pluses.

[Rikka]

I don't like how Reilster put the L-2 on Olinea. Scum could put their votes for a hammer from their. Unlikely and stupid on their part, yes, but then I would think a newbie game would be the place where it would happen. And while I get that you're trying to get people talking, I think you're too quick to change votes.

Thian: Well my gut hasn't screamed at me yet to distrust someone, which I think is to be expected at 2 pages. The way to win is to find scum, and to find scum people need to talk. But to me there's talking and there's yelling, and it's easier to hide in yelling then manipulate talking.

[Olinea]

I don't like how Reilster put the L-2 on Olinea. Scum could put their votes for a hammer from their. Unlikely and stupid on their part, yes, but then I would think a newbie game would be the place where it would happen. And while I get that you're trying to get people talking, I think you're too quick to change votes.

Thian: Well my gut hasn't screamed at me yet to distrust someone, which I think is to be expected at 2 pages. The way to win is to find scum, and to find scum people need to talk. But to me there's talking and there's yelling, and it's easier to hide in yelling then manipulate talking.

I'll take being a Day 1 lynch to find the scumpair any day.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.2:

Reilster (2): Withnail, Thian
Nazgûl (2): Nazgûl, camn
Olinea (2): GPT, McGriddle
GPT (1): Rikka
McGriddle (1): Olinea
Thian (1): Reilster

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, October 23, 2010, at 9:00 PM EST.

[Withnail]

FWIW, from my point of view, the harrassing of Reilster by Thian seems to be 90% froth.

Thian, you seem very confrontational. I tend to agree with Rikka's statement that talking is good, but yelling can be a way to hide.

--------

Meanwhile, it's clear that Reilster isn't lurking, so

Unvote: Reilster

By my count, McGriddle has posted just one sentence to do with the game. So,

Vote: McGriddle

McG: I'm interested in your answer to camn's question in post 18. What did you think of Thian's play in your game together? (Was it different from his play so far in this one?)

--------

Nazgul: I thought about voting for you, for lurking (just 2 short posts so far). But that would put you at L-2 (two votes away from being lynched) because of your self-vote. Please would you remove it? It may hinder people voting for you ... which in itself makes it a reason to vote for you. If you see what I mean?

--------

Side note: I'm glad that Olinea asked his questions. So far I've found 2 good new websites as a result: xkcd and Despair.com. I know we're playing to win, but I think it's good to get to get to know each other a bit as well - even if it makes no difference to the outcome of the game.

[McGriddle]

@thian and Mcgriddle: Your opinion on each others play?

This is a good player, I enjoy playing with Thian because Thian is intelligent. Just not when Ythan is around -.-*