Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

Miss Lane · Post Post #2450 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:57 am

I was somewhat sold yesterday, but I couldn't get at him w/ TSE in the way.

He pretty much exactly fills the bullet he wrote for TSE!scum and his end of day posts yesterday feel terrible. In addition, it very much makes sense for him to just scum theatre pops for pages on end with the eventual plan for one of them to get heaps of town cred for the other

Additionally, him saying he was losing his Klick town read looked like signaling or preparing for a bus

Miss Lane · Post Post #2451 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 am

In post 2449, Auro wrote:Okay, I'll treat that as a scum claim.
Let's cross vote?

Lol what kind of reaction is this?

Miss Lane · Post Post #2452 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 am

You're still trying to control the game? Put your vote where you think scum is or don't.

Auro · Post Post #2453 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:00 am

So... TSE lock towned me, stated multiple times he would never lynch me, displayed literally zero paranoia about me: and I, as scum, lynch him instead?

What do you think were my winning chances if I had lynched you instead and brought TSE/CSF to LyLo with me?

Miss Lane · Post Post #2454 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:02 am

Also a significant number of Auro's posts yesterday were theatre.

I don't necessarily think he thinks he is town.

I've been somewhat scum reading him for a while now.

His flip on TSE while also trying to explain to everyone why he's not scum through his defense of me

The fact that he now seems to be passively trying to push me despite explaining why he thinks I'm town

The fact that he spent almost all of yesterday trying to pocket me and CSF in the hopes that one of us would side with him today

The fact that for a while now he's been trying to talk this game down - this is a bit less of a tell than anything else

The fact that of the players alive he is easily the one most engaged in theatrics by a long shot

Miss Lane · Post Post #2455 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:03 am

In post 2453, Auro wrote:So... TSE lock towned me, stated multiple times he would never lynch me, displayed literally zero paranoia about me: and I, as scum, lynch him instead?

What do you think were my winning chances if I had lynched you instead and brought TSE/CSF to LyLo with me?

I think you don't want anyone saying that TSE won the game for you because he wouldn't flip on you even after death

Miss Lane · Post Post #2456 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:03 am

In post 2455, Miss Lane wrote:
In post 2453, Auro wrote:So... TSE lock towned me, stated multiple times he would never lynch me, displayed literally zero paranoia about me: and I, as scum, lynch him instead?

What do you think were my winning chances if I had lynched you instead and brought TSE/CSF to LyLo with me?
I think you don't want anyone saying that TSE won the game for you because he wouldn't flip on you even after my death

Ebwop

Miss Lane · Post Post #2457 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:04 am

I think you got cocky, I think you thought you had more away and power than you do, and I think you thought you could get away with it

Auro · Post Post #2458 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:04 am

In post 2455, Miss Lane wrote:I think you don't want anyone saying that TSE won the game for you because he wouldn't flip on you even after death

So I have the opportunity to capitalize on a town mistake to bring my chances to a certain 100% win, and instead, I try to go for a "style win" by lynching TSE because I want sole credit?

What?

Auro · Post Post #2459 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:06 am

In post 2457, Miss Lane wrote:I think you got cocky, I think you thought you had more away and power than you do, and I think you thought you could get away with it

"Auro's cocky" is your justification? Seriously?

I have taken townsfolk who hard townread me to LyLo before, for them to insta vote town and hand me a win easily.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2460 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:08 am

In post 2453, Auro wrote:So... TSE lock towned me, stated multiple times he would never lynch me, displayed literally zero paranoia about me: and I, as scum, lynch him instead?

What do you think were my winning chances if I had lynched you instead and brought TSE/CSF to LyLo with me?

This is also one of the only major points this game that is really in your favor, and I think you planned it.

One of the core principals I use when deciphering wifom is does it push a town wincon over a scum wincon, and the answer here is a soft no. While it's possible you were legitimately sold on TSE, I didn't see any fade into paranoia or any other sort of transitioning phase that made sense for you to flip on one of your strongest town reads. Your arguments for CSF town seemed to come from thin air and be established by the fact that you knew she was town despite whatever evidence anyone might find to the contrary. Same for your arguments for me.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2461 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:09 am

In post 2458, Auro wrote:
In post 2455, Miss Lane wrote:I think you don't want anyone saying that TSE won the game for you because he wouldn't flip on you even after death
So I have the opportunity to capitalize on a town mistake to bring my chances to a certain 100% win, and instead, I try to go for a "style win" by lynching TSE because I want sole credit?

What?

Yep. Because I think you think the odds are about equal either way.

Besides, everyone in this game has at least one circumstance that makes them significantly less likely to be scum, the difference is you have only one of them and it only developed yesterday

Miss Lane · Post Post #2462 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:10 am

In post 2459, Auro wrote:
In post 2457, Miss Lane wrote:I think you got cocky, I think you thought you had more away and power than you do, and I think you thought you could get away with it
"Auro's cocky" is your justification? Seriously?

I have taken townsfolk who hard townread me to LyLo before, for them to insta vote town and hand me a win easily.

This doesn't appease me or make you look any better

Auro · Post Post #2463 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:11 am

We can have our discussion on Mafia fundamentals now.
Mafia fundamental #1: Don't use WIFOM as scum if the alternative guarantees a win.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2464 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:12 am

It's also possible you for some reason thought TSE was capable of figuring out you aren't town in the last day phase and you wanted just one point in your favor. Neither CSF nor I gave many indications we hadn't been pocketed by you, so from your perspective, what's the risk?

Miss Lane · Post Post #2465 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:13 am

In post 2080, Auro wrote:I would assert that I am already in a position of power.
You've disagreed with the intent of a lot of my questions - you're incorrect.

What is "cocky"

Auro · Post Post #2466 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:13 am

In post 2461, Miss Lane wrote:Yep. Because I think you think the odds are about equal either way.

I don't think you think I think that.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2467 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:14 am

In post 2466, Auro wrote:
In post 2461, Miss Lane wrote:Yep. Because I think you think the odds are about equal either way.
I don't think you think I think that.

I think it's possible you did. Or you didn't think about that part at all. You just happened to be enjoying a mafia game.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2468 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:15 am

In post 1752, Auro wrote:
In post 1749, Klick wrote:But then I sensed an inkling of emotion in your questioning of me about Chemist and I'm trying to figure out what that implies.
Well, there's a mild amount of frustration that you don't see what I'm seeing? Like it does seem to boil down to value calls in most cases.
Apart from that I'm actually having fun this game!
What really gets on my nerves is a bloc of people peddling shit game-losing "logic" and refusing to evaluate things at all. It's at least fun to challenge clever players (even if scum) on different things and see their reactions/rebuttals.

Auro · Post Post #2469 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:15 am

In post 2464, Miss Lane wrote:It's also possible you for some reason thought TSE was capable of figuring out you aren't town in the last day phase and you wanted just one point in your favor. Neither CSF nor I gave many indications we hadn't been pocketed by you, so from your perspective, what's the risk?

Neither of you had given any indications you'd been pocketed by me either.
So it's a gamble, yeah?

What would happen such that TSE would "figure me out"? I asked him multiple times to re-read the game. Say we flipped you town. Would TSE be re-evaluating?

Screw that even: TSE need only townread me more than CSF for me to win. The margin of his townread of me was so large that this would require something massive to change. And he already had opportunity to re-evaluate.

Auro · Post Post #2470 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:17 am

In post 2467, Miss Lane wrote:I think it's possible you did. Or you didn't think about that part at all. You just happened to be enjoying a mafia game.

I was enjoying a Mafia game as mafia by having no real plan and throwing the game by avoiding a guaranteed chance of winning?

Miss Lane · Post Post #2471 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:18 am

In post 2469, Auro wrote:
In post 2464, Miss Lane wrote:It's also possible you for some reason thought TSE was capable of figuring out you aren't town in the last day phase and you wanted just one point in your favor. Neither CSF nor I gave many indications we hadn't been pocketed by you, so from your perspective, what's the risk?
Neither of you had given any indications you'd been pocketed by me either.
So it's a gamble, yeah?

What would happen such that TSE would "figure me out"? I asked him multiple times to re-read the game. Say we flipped you town. Would TSE be re-evaluating?

Screw that even: TSE need only townread me more than CSF for me to win. The margin of his townread of me was so large that this would require something massive to change. And he already had opportunity to re-evaluate.

Why wouldn't he? You flipped from 99% town on him to scum. He was your strongest read in the game.

I'll be honest this is the part I least believe, but there are so many possible explanations and this is the only point of contention so I'm really not sold out of it.

You didn't even consider CSF for a moment

Miss Lane · Post Post #2472 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:19 am

In post 2470, Auro wrote:
In post 2467, Miss Lane wrote:I think it's possible you did. Or you didn't think about that part at all. You just happened to be enjoying a mafia game.
I was enjoying a Mafia game as mafia by having no real plan and throwing the game by avoiding a guaranteed chance of winning?

This isn't an argument I'm having right now. I see what you're saying, but it's WIFOM and it's the only point in your favor.

Auro · Post Post #2473 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:20 am

In post 2471, Miss Lane wrote:You didn't even consider CSF for a moment

I did, multiple times, on re-reads. I literally towncased her to you yesterday before we lynched TSE.

Miss Lane · Post Post #2474 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:23 am

In post 2473, Auro wrote:
In post 2471, Miss Lane wrote:You didn't even consider CSF for a moment
I did, multiple times, on re-reads. I literally towncased her to you yesterday before we lynched TSE.

Ok what I'm saying is I dont like your town case.

I'm saying as I read your posts, I thought to myself "Auro is probably scum making this case, he convicts himself with his case on TSE, and he's somewhat unlikely to believe his case on CSF, but even if I was right on him, it is an uphill battle to lunch him with TSE in the game"