The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Jailkeeper Desperado Jailkeeps Albert B. Rampage
Returns: [Voyeur shos returns result Albert B. Rampage was targeted by a protective, roleblocking action]

Ahh Desperado, you got trolled so hard this game

[Albert B. Rampage]

Great job, shos!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Desperado8907

this game is hilarious

Why don't I just jailkeep ABR and we can kill someone who's actually a threat to us?

Tierce

Jailkeeping ABR is the best option.

Jsav

I'm going to rolecop ABR in case of tracker or the like, and to see if he really is telling the truth....

Shadoweh

...No
No he's probably telling the truth you're copping someone else and just claiming you 'protected' ABR. If a tracker outs themselves on you we just sacrifice you to kill another PR.


----snip----

Tierce

shos, when you see this, remind me to tell you why that gambit was really bad.

Lol ITT Tierce criticizes everyone and anyone who acts in a way that she doesn't expect.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I like the next part where Tierce tells Desperado "maybe we should JK ABR again in case he lied about about being an even night cop and can cop every night".

Tierce and Desperado are like Pinky and the Brain, plotting plausible ways of taking over the town and failing miserably and hilariously hahaha

[PeregrineV]

Did I miss dead QT?

Would like to see this too, please.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

ABR, you realize that if scum hadn't roleblocked you, your gambit would've resulted in shos being outed and you getting lynched D3, already having caused D2 to go to a no-lynch? I don't think you're in any position to come in here and gloat.

I'm glad I at least got Desperado right because of my play apart from that wasn't all that sparkling.

[PeregrineV]

Great job, shos!

+1 this, because voyeur is a pretty weak role, and getting useful results is only useful in limited circumstances (like when a VT claims PR but scum doesn't want to kill them outright in case they are fakeclaiming).

[PeregrineV]

@Tierce- There is going to be town noise in any game, so that is technically a constant. With that as a constant, town performed exceptionally well.

[Tierce]

@Tierce- There is going to be town noise in any game, so that is technically a constant. With that as a constant, town performed exceptionally well.

No.

It's understandable that you think the Town performed well. You, individually, caught two scum, and, again, Town deserved the win, not just due to scum performance, but by power role play catching three scum and the fourth failing to participate in the game. But Town "noise" is not and should not be a constant, and should not be something that lines up with "exceptionally good" performance. I'm not talking about Night action choices, I'm talking about things you can openly point as bad Town Dayplay when you were inquiring how you could do better. There were plenty of moments in this game where, if you stopped a Town player in their tracks and asked them why they were doing what they did, they'd say something along the lines of "I don't know, I thought I'd wing it". ABR even mentioned that he was self-sabotaging by fakeclaiming because of someone's play. What the hell?

Doesn't matter if you agree or not, there are things that this game did not need to see. You asked me, I answered. There was plenty of "noise" beyond this, but you will notice that I did not mention it, because those are normal things in a Mafia game. This specific set? Was not.


ABR--gloat as you will? Your fakeclaim did not help the Town, shos's play did. I was trying to spot where more Town power would be, and was wrong on the where, but not on the fact that it existed. Since JacobSavage did not leave a readable crumb on PeregrineV's result, we couldn't guess that there were two Trackers and were playing with the tools we had. When you say that I'm criticizing everyone, you're missing two important facts: I was asked to explain my comment that the Town could have done better, and I have made a point of saying the Town win was deserved

anyway

. If you're choosing to ignore that and just gloat instead of learning from this game, that's on you.

[PeregrineV]

@Tierce- There is going to be town noise in any game, so that is technically a constant. With that as a constant, town performed exceptionally well.

No.

It's understandable that you think the Town performed well. You, individually, caught two scum, and, again, Town deserved the win, not just due to scum performance, but by power role play catching three scum and the four failing to participate in the game. But Town "noise" is not and should not be a constant, and should not be something that lines up with "exceptionally good" performance. I'm not talking about Night action choices, I'm talking about things you can openly point as bad Town Dayplay when you were inquiring how you could do better. There were plenty of moments in this game where, if you stopped a Town player in their tracks and asked them why they were doing what they did, they'd say something along the lines of "I don't know, I thought I'd wing it". ABR even mentioned that he was self-sabotaging by fakeclaiming because of someone's play. What the hell?

Doesn't matter if you agree or not, there are things that this game did not need to see. You asked me, I answered. There was plenty of "noise" beyond this, but you will notice that I did not mention it, because those are normal things in a Mafia game. This specific set? Was not.


ABR--gloat as you will? Your fakeclaim did not help the Town, shos's play did. I was trying to spot where more Town power would be, and was wrong on the where, but not on the fact that it existed. Since JacobSavage did not leave a readable crumb on PeregrineV's result, we couldn't guess that there were two Trackers and were playing with the tools we had. When you say that I'm criticizing everyone, you're missing two important facts: I was asked to explain my comment that the Town could have done better, and I have made a point of saying the Town win was deserved

anyway

. If you're choosing to ignore that and just gloat instead of learning from this game, that's on you.

If you compare noise to a town full of lurkers, then I prefer the noise. It makes playing more fun and makes it easier to get reads.
Take Sirdani for example. Why do you think he wasn;t lynched? And you guys had to NK him instead.

Same with ABR. If he hadn't fakeclaimed (poor play) then shos would not have voyeaured him and did his gambit (poor play) which confirmed ABR as town AND gave us a scumrole at the same time, and required you guys to kill him AND roleblock him which meant you weren't killing actual PRs.
So yes, in theory, poor play. But, that poor play is the springboard for good future decisions, and the fact we made the best of the poor play (by both town and scum) to win is important.

[ActionDan]

The weak doctor crumbing by nat was fine

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Take Sirdani for example. Why do you think he wasn;t lynched? And you guys had to NK him instead.

That was just a bad nightkill, really. Sirdan came pretty close to getting lynched.

[PeregrineV]

Take Sirdani for example. Why do you think he wasn;t lynched? And you guys had to NK him instead.

That was just a bad nightkill, really. Sirdan came pretty close to getting lynched.

I dunno.

sirdanilot - 8 - Desperado, Espeonage, MafiaSSK, Elscouta, shos, Shadoweh, Tierce, ActionDan

Led by Desp (no read), Esp (that claim...), Elscout (scummy), shos (c'mon! you know better!), Shadow (scummy), Tierce (deadline lynch), AD (deadline lynch)

Once Shadow was gone and Sirdani kept pushing the Tierce lynch, there were plenty more scummy people than him. I'd never have lynched him.

[PeregrineV]

The weak doctor crumbing by nat was fine

Yes, but I would have preferred him to actually protect his strongest townread instead of suiciding. But I think that with the Shieldrender role that scum could kill past him, so it's probably better in this game that he did.

And I still consider Shadow a bus, because Tierce brought it up and pushed it first/the hardest.

[Shadoweh]

I have no idea how the words 'sirdanilot could be scum' were ever uttered after that in seriousness, but I think it's a testament to how badly people wanted to lynch him.
Tierce had no intention of bussing me until she had to. It was a bus as much as voting your partner after a cop claims guilty on them is.

[Svenskt Stål]

damn, shots fired

[PeregrineV]

I have no idea how the words 'sirdanilot could be scum' were ever uttered after that in seriousness, but I think it's a testament to how badly people wanted to lynch him.
Tierce had no intention of bussing me until she had to. It was a bus as much as voting your partner after a cop claims guilty on them is.

shos mentioned it. Then Tierce starts on ABR, you start on Jacob. Another day in the office.
Seems someone else could have brought it up first, is all I'm saying. I focused on the doc portion more than the "weak" modifier.

Time to see who majiffy crumbed and cross fingers that he crumbed

WOOOOOOOOSH

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage


Weak Doctor + Cop/Vig + Half Cop. Yeah right.


Question. Was Majiffy killed, or did he suicide? First post suggests the latter.

The death flavors are different, so it implies different things killed them.

##Vote: JacobSavage

If we're going to point out the role that doesn't make sense, a Bodyguard and a Weak Doctor don't make sense in the same game. Also the kill is weird enough to suggest they're just trying to make him look like he should still be alive.

Well I have no idea what Natirasha did N1.

But!

UNVOTE: Albert B. Rampage
VOTE: Shadoweh

Fire priestesses never bothered me anyway.

Tierce is scum.

[Svenskt Stål]

Something I want to bring up:

If you are Town and a PR, please please PLEASE learn to crumb your actual results.

Refusing to hammer a Townread as a Weak Doctor when you have a Town result on someone else who you read as "null"... after your predecessor had the equally brilliant idea of crumbing a result on someone else entirely... That could have ended very, very badly for Town if one of those "reads" was on one of us.

When you are an investigative PR, you need to be careful. Not just with how you crumb your results, but with how you word your NOT results. People will rightfully hunt for crumbs, and Natirasha's wording on CES and Majiffy's on sirdanilot (while calling SSK null!) were incredibly dangerous for the Town when Natirasha's actual N1 result was on

MafiaSSK

of all people.

Agree on bolded, make a mafia discussion thread about it, hold people accountable.

And its not just the crumbing, its the fundamental concept about what you should do, like people thinking that the cop is supposed to find scum, its just retarded.

start a thread please

[Tierce]

Seems someone else could have brought it up first, is all I'm saying.

Yes, I could have waited for someone else to bring it up. But there was no point to it; the lynch would happen either way sooner or later, and the fact that there were two NKs made it evident that he had died on scum. If you really have to bus because there's no alternative for the Day, go ahead and make it happen. I made a few strategic mistakes in this game, that was not one of them; I wouldn't have voted Shadoweh otherwise.

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol anyone who suspected Tierce was NK'd and Tierce dares to say that "the only reason I got lynched was because I was tracked!"

Guess why you were tracked.

[ActionDan]

I was going to lynch between and Spyrex the day Peregrine claimed the track on Tierce

[Shadoweh]

shos mentioned it. Then Tierce starts on ABR, you start on Jacob. Another day in the office.
Seems someone else could have brought it up first, is all I'm saying. I focused on the doc portion more than the "weak" modifier.

I know I said town dayplay was comically atrocious, but I have faith that SOMEONE would have noticed his weak crumb, combined with his kill flavor not matching the scum nightkill, and the vigilante already being dead. I'm glad you can't tell I was panicing when I made that post because I'd already seen how dead I was :>

Peregrine thought Tierce was scum since like Day 2, I don't think it was because of nightkills. I wish we'd killed him early like I wanted to. <_<

[Natirasha]

I really don't see how anyone would have failed to figure out I wouldn't have checked SSK n1. My CES posts were strictly for deadline, and really, if there is doubt, people should defer to my meta: in the absence of information, which single player would i most likely want to confirm as town? The answer pretty much always SSK.

[shos]

Nati, this was not awfully hard to figure out imo, but you could definitely have crumbed it better >_>; majiffy's crumb was amazing, and considering the setup, he did perfectly. even without considering it - I think that a weak doc should treat himself as a cop and no less. the real question is whther to target lynchable townreads or scumreads..

[Elscouta]

Natirasha crumb was fine. It was seen without trouble. However, Majiffy listing MafiaSSK as null was horrible, as it convinced people that the crumb was wrong or that Natirasha flaked during the night.