Mini 1565: Playing Card Mafia (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

Votecount 5.1

Desperado [L-1] - StrangerCoug

StrangerCoug [L-1] - Desperado

Not Voting [1] - pieguyn

With 3 alive, it takes

2

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2014-06-05 18:00:00)

[pieguyn]

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that yessirree was going to die and I was certain that I had everything I needed. (I later realized I was missing one important thing, which is why I asked you to switch.) The apology was to the players that were upset with me hammering when I did.

what do you think about my observations about Desp so far?

[StrangerCoug]

I like #2293 and #2298 in particular.

[pieguyn]

I'm going to be on a plane most of today. I really need Desp to get in here by the time I'm back tonight. plz and thx

[Desperado]

Today's another double close followed by opening tomorrow so I wouldn't count on it. Tomorrow night.

[StrangerCoug]

When you get back, could you actually advance a case on me? You haven't done that yet, and pieguyn needs help.

[Desperado]

I seriously doubt I'll be doing anything resembling that. It would be nothing but confbiased BS anyway given our mutual status.

[StrangerCoug]

But from pieguyn's point of view, if you're town, you know damn well that I'm scum, so you should be digging up as much dirt on me as you can. I know it sounds trivial, but refusing to convince pieguyn that I'm scum because "

t would be nothing but confbiased BS anyway" is actually counterproductive.

Both of us were advancing town reads on each other. It's now clear that one of our "town reads" was obvious and the other is wrong. Why are you refusing to be useful?

[Desperado]

I'm not doing that? All i said was I'm not going to be making a case for you being scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Oh, and pieguyn is supposed to divine that I'm scum somehow? He does have some issues with me, but those may not be enough for him to decide that I'm scum (if that's true, of course—both of us know whether it is or not). I went back and looked at your posts in hindsight. I looked at the NKed players as well. From what I read, I presented the best case I could against you. All you've really done today is meta-defend yourself.

[Desperado]

I havent even started doing anything yet. Pieguy asked me for those links and i wasnt even meant as a defense so...?

[pieguyn]

ok fuck this, there might not be enough time and I think I got what I wanted anyway.

I like #2293 and #2298 in particular.

this was a reaction test that you p much epically failed. like your reaction might have been ok otherwise, but I distinctly remember you saying "I care about this game and this game only" - but you LIKE the way I was using META in 2293?

(and on top of that that meta sucked ass and i was half faking it just to get a reaction out of him)

*insert giant neutral face here*

[pieguyn]

you know how I said yessir had no interactions with Bulba?

he had no interactions with SC either save for like one question right at game start, until D4

on the other hand he was pushing for Desp lynch the entire game and tried to discredit his Bulba read D1 as "tunneling"

[pieguyn]

#stepback

the fact i was not blocked last night, reading in between the lines, indicates that scum had no way of blocking me last night. Thus they would have to deal with me and win my favor in 3p LYLO.

now look at Desp's D4 play. how the fuck does that kind of play, in any way, fit that agenda? I think it's infinitely more likely he had an incorrect POE and thus ended up reaching for reasons to call me scum. I experienced that crap from Sakura as town in NY169 recently and have fallen victim to the same cycle of confbias myself.

on the other hand, SC was calling me scum while also saying I had good points about yessir. what. the. actual. fuck. that kind of disconnect really should not happen in endgame as that is that is the time when town needs to look at the whole picture and put the pieces together. it makes me think scum manipulating and is consistent with his actions today (see point about my meta case on Desp). clearing someone as town also seems like a good way to win someone's favor, but that can come from town too.

tl;dr Desp's play is far more agenda less than SC's

[pieguyn]

this has been #postingfromipad

if anyone wants specifics I'll pull up quotes later when I'm at comp

@SC:

if you want me to consider voting Desp, I absolutely need an answer for why the fuck Desp scum kills emogirl N3 bc I have fuck all. I need an answer for this posthaste, if you don't mind.

@Desp:

for the sake of completeness I still want a response to my previous questions when you get here

[pieguyn]

actually you know what

upon further reread:

yessir literally interacted with every single player in this game relatively consistently besides vezok (understandable) and..... Bulba and SC

holy fucking shit is it really that easy

there's no way

[pieguyn]

this might call for a quick meta dive to be absolutely sure because holy fucking shit

that will have to wait until I'm at comp

[pieguyn]

7 IN A ROW ^_^

this is what I get for being too tired to sleep at 5 AM

[pieguyn]

I have had a shitton of success in the past flat out abandoning and 180'ing my play based reads in favor of logic and or VCA

the first step to being good at scumhunting is realizing you suck at it

is this the time for zen philosophical principles or should I just shut up and think about my reads more

[pieguyn]

like this is smth someone can like legitimately do. some interactions can be kind of odd, but I think there's a very real chance he just flat out forgot to interact with his partners, espescially given the timing of his SC interactions: almost as if he was reminding himself to do that pregame and then forgot when the game got going

uuu I'm seizing up and getting indecisive again

[pieguyn]

now this is just becoming a game of now many posts in a row I can make

I'm going to bed now

[StrangerCoug]

@SC:

if you want me to consider voting Desp, I absolutely need an answer for why the fuck Desp scum kills emogirl N3 bc I have fuck all. I need an answer for this posthaste, if you don't mind.

Kind of answered already, but I'll clarify:

Sidenote: I did some more isoing/rereading; and since there is a real possibility of me being nightkilled (being outed PR and all) I figure I should get this out before the night: If either of Casso/Vezo flips town, you should pay a closer look to Yes.

This is quite literally the only thing I found that is any indication that the scum kill was for having a scum read right. I'm not convinced that the primary motive for killing anybody who didn't claim a power role was because they actually posed a serious threat to the scum. Town has had inaccurate reads for much of the game, meaning that we've been easy for scum to manipulate.

This implies that I thought emogirl123 was killed to set up a scum read of hers, probably Aegor, who was her biggest suspect when she died. There is no way they knew she was getting vigged the same night.

[StrangerCoug]

Question for pie: What do you think about my case that Desp had was scumreading yes but was busy pushing mislynches?

[pieguyn]

I want to see Desp's response first

no response to my case on you?

[StrangerCoug]

I like #2293 and #2298 in particular.

this was a reaction test that you p much epically failed. like your reaction might have been ok otherwise, but I distinctly remember you saying "I care about this game and this game only" - but you LIKE the way I was using META in 2293?

Different people are going to have different opinions about meta. Are they things I'd use myself? Hell no. Would a person reliant on meta draw the conclusion from your #2293 that Desperado could very well be scum? It's actually pretty easy for such a person to do that.

on the other hand, SC was calling me scum while also saying I had good points about yessir. what. the. actual. fuck.

Nothing at the time prevented 1.) you from bussing yessir (which we now know you can't have done) and 2.) me from being wrong about you (which we now know is obvious). Where is the "disconnect"?