Mini 621 - Pantsville (Game over!)


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:53 am

Post by Quagmire »

Farkshinsoup wrote:
Quagmire wrote: Yosarian asks for an explanation of the vote, which concerned me a bit. Why in the world would he be concerned with one person who is voting for him just because the person voting for him says, "he's scum guys, follow me?" Certainly not someone who is town-aligned, that's for sure.
This is a specious argument. It is perfectly reasonable for a townie to have his radar set off by accusations that are not accompanied by arguments.
No it's not. It's stupid. It's anti-town.
Also, have you read the first 4 pages of the game yet? I'm not sure if this was a joke, but if it was, it's pretty lame, and if it wasn't, please get yourself up to speed.
no, i haven't read 1-4, and i don't plan on it. i said i was waiting on a summary from everyone and yosarian gave me one.

After I did a reread, I really don't like ClockworkRuse. He FoS's Gauzame, then recants and says it was a joke when he gets some flack for it. That's the lie that clammy thinks he he told - lying about the FoS being a joke. Clammy was right.

Vote: ClockworkRuse
So...right now I'm thinking Farkinsonsoup or whatever your name is and yosarian.
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:04 am

Post by ClockworkRuse »

Farkshinsoup wrote: After I did a reread, I really don't like ClockworkRuse. He FoS's Gauzame, then recants and says it was a joke when he gets some flack for it. That's the lie that clammy thinks he he told - lying about the FoS being a joke. Clammy was right.

Vote: ClockworkRuse
I have to say, that is a very weak case against me. I've already explained that I haven't lied and that it was meant to be a joke. At least I got a chuckle out of it. :D It seems that once you leave The Road to Rome, small jokes like that are out? I'll admit that I probably shouldn't have bolded the FoS, but it was still meant to be taken as a joke.

The fact that you are taking such a weak argument and turning it into a vote does warrant you a very serious
FoS
. I'm going to have to do a re-read on you.

Quagmire wrote:
Farkshinsoup wrote:
Quagmire wrote: Yosarian asks for an explanation of the vote, which concerned me a bit. Why in the world would he be concerned with one person who is voting for him just because the person voting for him says, "he's scum guys, follow me?" Certainly not someone who is town-aligned, that's for sure.
This is a specious argument. It is perfectly reasonable for a townie to have his radar set off by accusations that are not accompanied by arguments.
No it's not. It's stupid. It's anti-town.
Also, have you read the first 4 pages of the game yet? I'm not sure if this was a joke, but if it was, it's pretty lame, and if it wasn't, please get yourself up to speed.
no, i haven't read 1-4, and i don't plan on it. i said i was waiting on a summary from everyone and yosarian gave me one.
A few things I feel about this post.

It is not anti-town to ask someone to list their reasons for a vote. In fact, that could be scum hunting. Anyone who is trying to start a wagon without reason deserves some questioning and some suspicion. Lowell wants to start a wagon, he'd better have a better reasons then 'LOL He's Scum!' And if that's what we get, it doesn't help the town one bit. Hiding you reasoning from the town hurts us. In fact, I'm still waiting for him to explain how I was opportunistic. In my opinion, he's been dodging questions regarding his reasoning all game and that sets a red flag to me.

If someone is willing to throw around claims but can't back them up
thats
anti-town. Not giving your reasoning for an attack,
thats
anti-town. If Lowell was willing to vote for Yos and call for a wagon on him, then he'd better be able to back it up. He better be able to give reasoning for his call to lynch. And he didn't, he let you.

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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:05 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Quagmire wrote:So...right now I'm thinking Farkinsonsoup or whatever your name is and yosarian.
Please feel free to shorten it to Fark. Or seeing how busy you are, if you just want to type f, I'll know who you mean.
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:21 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

ClockworkRuse wrote:I've already explained that I haven't lied and that it was meant to be a joke. At least I got a chuckle out of it. :D
I know that's what you've said, and I don't believe you. It doesn't matter how many smiling emoticons you post.

Please explain the thought process that you had when you said to yourself, "I'm going to accuse Guzame of role fishing, that will be hilarious!" Where is the joke? How did this amuse you?

As Haschel (I think) pointed out, it did kind of seem like Guzame was role fishing. It was a valid criticism. Why didn't you just defend your FoS instead of back pedalling when you got some flack for it?
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:02 pm

Post by ClockworkRuse »

Farkshinsoup wrote:
ClockworkRuse wrote:I've already explained that I haven't lied and that it was meant to be a joke. At least I got a chuckle out of it. :D
I know that's what you've said, and I don't believe you. It doesn't matter how many smiling emoticons you post.

Please explain the thought process that you had when you said to yourself, "I'm going to accuse Guzame of role fishing, that will be hilarious!" Where is the joke? How did this amuse you?

As Haschel (I think) pointed out, it did kind of seem like Guzame was role fishing. It was a valid criticism. Why didn't you just defend your FoS instead of back pedalling when you got some flack for it?
Because I was seriously joking, if I hadn't been joking I would have stuck with my claim. It amused me because to me he wasn't fishing. Like I said before, if he had asked Reborn to comment on his thoughts I would have been serious in considering it fishing.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:14 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Quagmire wrote: That's cool and all, but...why would you do that? Why would you be so concerned and focused on one person voting for you?
(shrug) I always try to respond to attacks against me. I just think that's a more pro-town way to act then ignoring attacks against you is. Only reason I didn't respond to his initial vote was because I was too focued with other issues, like reborn.

And, again, I found it concerning he seemed to be using his "Yos is scum" thing to look like he was participating while not actually commenting on anything else, so I wanted him to explain it more.
It's not a BS meta. He simply said, "hey, yos is scum, follow me." Nobody was going to take him seriously because he didn't have any content, you knew that. Why should anyone take it seriously?
..I don't know, that's why I'm voting for you.
I didn't take it as a serious threat to me or anything (in fact, I think the first response I made to it made it pretty clear I didn't consider his unexplained vote a real threat). I did want him to explain his vote, and was willing to risking brining more attention to his attack against me and willing to therefore put myself into greater danger in order to get a read on him at that point.

And yeah, overdefensive is a BS meta, because everyone should always defend themselves; if someone's attacking you, even if it's just one person and even if it's a minor, unexplained FOS or whatever, I think you should always try to respond to it if you're pro-town; it's the best way to both clear up any misunderstandings, to shoot down any flawed logic a person might be using, and to get a read on the other person based on how he makes his case on you.
PS: I always always always ignore votes on me whenever I'm not being bandwagoned. I simply don't care about it. I have more important things to do than defend myself from one pointless vote.
(shrug) That's great. I almost never ignore votes on me.
That's exactly what you'd say as mafia, that's why.
It might be. It's also exactally what I would say as town.

If someone is attacking me when I'm town, I'm always going to try to figure out why they've come to the incorrect conclusion that I'm scum, and then point out the holes in their logic to them and to the rest of the town. In the process I can also often get a good idea of if the person attacking me is town or scum. Why would I ever NOT want to do that?
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:30 pm

Post by reborn537 »

Yosarian2 wrote:
reborn537 wrote:To be honest I don't really see anything wrong with Yosarian asking Lowell to justify himself. It is normally customary to justify a vote when you cast it. It's almost as if Lowell is gambiting, but anyway...

On the other hand, his attitude is pretty sullen at the moment and I've read that that's a scum tell, so I'm willing to go with this for now. I'm not overly convinced, but I'm looking for a conclusion to day 1 of ONE of my games before too long (Day 1 of Newbie 639 is nearing the longest Day 1 on record... *sigh*). And I think we can get some info about Lowell and Quag if they turn out to be wrong about Yos.

unvote vote yos
...

I'm "sullen"? How is being "sullen" a scumtell?

And you're doing that thing AGAIN, where you're assuming that "either Yos is scum or Yos' attackers are scum", and it's still scummy.
Maybe, but so's trying to seed a lynch on the townie with the power role!
The quick-hammer is no longer scummy. I'm taking it back.
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:37 pm

Post by reborn537 »

Quagmire wrote:So...right now I'm thinking Farkinsonsoup or whatever your name is and yosarian.
Why do you assume there are only two scum?

unvote


I've decided the case on Yos is ridiculous, not even worth waggoning for pressure. Lowell has no reasons really except for meta which I can't confirm, and Quag has waggoned on for seemingly similar reasons.

Also, how is -
That's exactly what you'd say if you were scum![/b] This is ridiculous, and leads to horrible WIFOM.

If you guys make a real case, then ok, fine, but I think Yos just seems like a frustrated townie atm.
The quick-hammer is no longer scummy. I'm taking it back.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:59 pm

Post by reborn537 »

EBWOP
That's exactly what you'd say if you were scum!
The quick-hammer is no longer scummy. I'm taking it back.
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 pm

Post by reborn537 »

Also I have paraphrased very slightly, the original quote is
That's exactly what you'd say as mafia, that's why.
For the sake of accuracy.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 pm

Post by Erratus Apathos »

Mod:
prod Haschel Cedricson please

Am I the only one here who doesn't understand what in the world the Yosarian vs Lowell/Quagmire argument is even about? It looks like it's just both sides going "NO U" back and forth.
Farkshinsoup wrote:I really don't like this whole yosariscum wagon that's been building. I just don't see it.

Unvote
You don't see the case against the guy you've been voting for the past week?

FoS: Farkshinsoup

ClockworkRuse wrote:Because I was seriously joking, if I hadn't been joking I would have stuck with my claim. It amused me because to me he wasn't fishing.
So your defense is that you falsely accused Guzame of fishing just for shits and giggles?
Confirm vote
Do you want your possessions identified?
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:23 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Erratus Apathos wrote:You don't see the case against the guy you've been voting for the past week?
I put my vote on him because of the comment he made when Quag first entered the game. At that time the only other vote on him was from Lowell, who it seemed voted him for the same reason. Yosarian explained himself, but I left my vote there to see what would happen next. In the meantime, Quag and reborn put their votes on him. At that point, it seemed like a wagon was building that I did not feel was supported by the evidence, so I unvoted and put it on Clockwork, who I find more suspicious than Yosarian at the moment.
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:30 am

Post by Lowell »

@reborn- If you don't like the case on Yos all of a sudden, what were you doing on the bandwagon in the first place? What changed? Also, don't lump me in with Quag.

@yos- you HAVE been more meta this time. Taking time to explain the rules/basic strategy? Isn't there scumhunting to be done? I agree with quag's assessment that a single vote, on page 6, with not that much reasoning attached, isn't such a big deal. Not to say I'm not RIGHT about you, mind you, but still.

Also, EA is definately town. I like 235, and pretty much everything he's done.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:02 am

Post by Quagmire »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Quagmire wrote: That's cool and all, but...why would you do that? Why would you be so concerned and focused on one person voting for you?
(shrug) I always try to respond to attacks against me. I just think that's a more pro-town way to act then ignoring attacks against you is. Only reason I didn't respond to his initial vote was because I was too focued with other issues, like reborn.

And, again, I found it concerning he seemed to be using his "Yos is scum" thing to look like he was participating while not actually commenting on anything else, so I wanted him to explain it more.
It wasn't really an attack on you, it was just a declaration. "He is mafia. Please follow me." And did you really just say that you did it because you want to be conceived as more pro-town?
And yeah, overdefensive is a BS meta, because everyone should always defend themselves; if someone's attacking you, even if it's just one person and even if it's a minor, unexplained FOS or whatever, I think you should always try to respond to it if you're pro-town; it's the best way to both clear up any misunderstandings, to shoot down any flawed logic a person might be using, and to get a read on the other person based on how he makes his case on you.
I don't want to get into this argument here. Maybe on scumchat sometime, getting bogged down with mafia theory and crap like that shouldn't be in individual games.
If someone is attacking me when I'm town, I'm always going to try to figure out why they've come to the incorrect conclusion that I'm scum, and then point out the holes in their logic to them and to the rest of the town. In the process I can also often get a good idea of if the person attacking me is town or scum. Why would I ever NOT want to do that?
Because every time you do it, it's OMGUS? That's not really what you did; it was much more "slithering for information" instead of "open questioning."
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:30 am

Post by reborn537 »

Lowell wrote:@reborn- If you don't like the case on Yos all of a sudden, what were you doing on the bandwagon in the first place? What changed? Also, don't lump me in with Quag.
I was on the wagon for very selfish and meta reasons, and I came to my senses, reviewed the "arguments" and acted accordingly.

And why shouldn't I lump you in with Quag? He was second on, after you. It looks weird. Especially given your attack.

I'm sorry guys, but I'm not going to lynch Yos based on meta.
The quick-hammer is no longer scummy. I'm taking it back.
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:37 am

Post by whoami9 »

Hi, this is Quagmire. I've been banned for doing I-don't-really-know-what; it's presumably because mith hates me or something. I don't really know.

So, unfortunately, I have to flake from this game due to circumstances beyond my control. Go complain to mith for forcing you to find a replacement just because he's on the rag if you wish, because he interrupted this game. I apologize, and he should too, hopefully.
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:53 am

Post by Farkshinsoup »

Well, that's a fly in the soup.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:44 pm

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

Sorry about the lack of posting. Things at work have picked up to the point where I have to actually work instead of dick around on the Internet all day. I'll do my best to keep up on the reading, but my writing is going to be erratic for the next week or so.

Anyhoo...
Everything in this post screams mafia.
...why, because I'm defending myself logically against a bad attack? How is it scummy to do that?
That's exactly what you'd say as mafia, that's why.
This exchange appears to sum up the entire Yos/Quag debate. I don't know if either of you are Mafia or not, but there's such an enormous lack of substance in the last two pages that I don't feel comfortable building a case out of this clusterfuck.

I reread ClockworkRuse, and I'm convinced he is our best lynch. He states he was making a joke. As I stated before, I thought his calling out Guzame made Clockwork seem even more pro-town. Then to backpedal the way he did under the guise of a joke sits wrong. Not only do I not believe ClockworkRuse was making a joke, his posts give me the impression the ClockworkRuse himself does not believe that he was making a joke.

In my experience, the latter is far more important than the former.

Unvote, Vote ClockworkRuse
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:45 pm

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

EBWOP: If the person who replaces Quagmire has a username that starts with "Q", that would be either awesome or a bad omen. I'm not sure which.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:46 pm

Post by Awesome Pants »

The sixth vote count!

ClockworkRuse
(4) - clammy, Erratus Apathos, Farkshinsoup, Haschel Cedricson
Yosarian2
(2) - Lowell, Quagmire
chenhsi
(1) - goborage,
Reborn537
(1) - Guzame
goborage
(1) - chenhsi
Quagmire
(1) - Yosarian2

Not voting
: ClockworkRuse, reborn537

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


Deadline is in 5 days, but seeing as there's problems with Quag I'll extend it if there's a need/multiple requests. I'm also not totally sure what's happening with him, so I'm going to hold off looking for a replacement for a little while in case he's allowed back in to finish his games.
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:04 pm

Post by Haschel Cedricson »

Awesome Pants wrote:

Deadline is in 5 days, but seeing as there's problems with Quag I'll extend it if there's a need/multiple requests. I'm also not totally sure what's happening with him, so I'm going to hold off looking for a replacement for a little while in case he's allowed back in to finish his games.
viewtopic.php?t=6633&postdays=0&postord ... &start=173

It looks like he's not coming back.
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Post Post #246 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:08 pm

Post by Awesome Pants »

Yep, I saw that, but I'm waiting to see if mith's stance can be swayed by popular opinion. :P

I'll give it another day anyway.
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Post Post #247 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:56 pm

Post by ClockworkRuse »

Haschel Cedricson wrote:Sorry about the lack of posting. Things at work have picked up to the point where I have to actually work instead of dick around on the Internet all day. I'll do my best to keep up on the reading, but my writing is going to be erratic for the next week or so.

Anyhoo...
Everything in this post screams mafia.
...why, because I'm defending myself logically against a bad attack? How is it scummy to do that?
That's exactly what you'd say as mafia, that's why.
This exchange appears to sum up the entire Yos/Quag debate. I don't know if either of you are Mafia or not, but there's such an enormous lack of substance in the last two pages that I don't feel comfortable building a case out of this clusterfuck.

I reread ClockworkRuse, and I'm convinced he is our best lynch. He states he was making a joke. As I stated before, I thought his calling out Guzame made Clockwork seem even more pro-town. Then to backpedal the way he did under the guise of a joke sits wrong. Not only do I not believe ClockworkRuse was making a joke, his posts give me the impression the ClockworkRuse himself does not believe that he was making a joke.

In my experience, the latter is far more important than the former.

Unvote, Vote ClockworkRuse
Like I've said before, if I would have been serious about my claim then I would have stuck with it. But to me he wasn't fishing and I'm not back-pedaling over anything. I'm being honest. If you want to lynch me because of that weak argument, be my guest.

As for me?
FoS
Erratus Apathos. The most you've done all game is say "Yeah... I'm good with my vote." You've barely added seriously to discussion and to me you've been trying to hide in the background. I'm going to get a re-read on you.
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Post Post #248 (ISO) » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:36 pm

Post by goborage »

Quagmire wrote:
goborage wrote:More people on the chenhsi wagon please.

It's pretty clear he's a newbie but I'm leaning towards him being newbie scum. As mentioned, his play earlier on was incredibly over-reactive and he has been called out on it. Since then chenhsi has almost completely shut up. I'm guessing he's doing this because he wants to lie low. This is a pro-survival play but anti-town.
chenhsi wrote:Huh?

I didn't post, because I felt like there was nothing to say.

I don't post much if I have nothing to contribute.

I posted in the other game because I had somthing to contribute (my roleclaim).
This strikes me as someone who is uninterested in scum-hunting. Could it be that he already knows who's scum?

@ chenhsi: What do you think of reborn's claim? Do you have thoughts on any of the players?
Bad case.
Hmm I guess I won't figure out what he had against it. Anyone want to take his place?
Well if you're so sure what it ain't, how about tellin' us what it am!
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Post Post #249 (ISO) » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:48 am

Post by Lowell »

Okay, you guys are right.
unvote, vote clockwork
. Nothing about his defense does anything for me.

FOS Yos
. I'm still convinced he's scum. He's different than in other games I've played with him.

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