Newbie Game #489 - Murder in Smallburg (Game Over!)

[Mr. Flay]

Twelfth Vote Count of Day One:

Wolfbullet - 2 (Flameaxe, mcpaltp)
mcpaltp - 2 (Wolfbullet, NabakovNabakov)

Not Voting - 3 (martini, Selande, Franzie)

With seven alive, four votes will be enough to lynch.

[Franzie]

All of these replacemnts are getting me down Sad .

Yes, this. Even though I'm one, I'm still getting a bit confused.

Thank you for confirming some of the details about wolfbullet. Do or die?

vote: Wolfbullet

Also...most people are referring to "mcpaltp" as "mcpaltAp" and that's really triggering my OCD. I'm looking at you, N-N.

Obligatory Lynch-1 warning.

[Wolfbullet]

Thank you for confirming some of the details about wolfbullet. Do or die?

I did say I'd be suspect of anyone who put me to -1.

What did he confirm? The post did answer how he felt so thanks for that mcpaltp but it gives nothing as to why I'm getting voted apart from he thinks I'm OMGUSing. You didn't even give a reason to vote me.

I've noticed another interesting pattern such as when mcpaltp removed his vote on Flameaxe you followed suit. Now he has voted me and voila you have as well. Maybe mcpaltp did truly accidently vote you to -1 at the start cause your his partner. The only reason you didn't seem as scummy was because of that.

As for attacking someone as soon as replacing I'll point you back to your first post. Least I got some decent evidence which you have not said why you don't believe. Also as someone who got put to -1 by mcpaltp you should be at least a tiny bit suspicious.

Also of interest is that both of you have nothing of interest to say on the other.

What I find funny just now is I've managed to get 3 votes and yet nobody really has given a reason apart from Flameaxe and his was just a random vote.

[mcpaltp]

BEEEEEEEP BEEEP BEEEEEEEEP! ZOMG! Mcpaltp had a vote on me before I even entered the game! What an OMGUSer! Is what I'm seeing here.

Also, I'm glad you think youa are town, that's a load off my mind.

I have not liked how Boggs was acting before you came in due to his response to the (very useful, I think) FA gambit that seemed to enrage him and start freaking out, OMGUSing and trying to deflect attention from himself. Coupled with his on-again off-again attacks on NabNab and claims of his attacks being a gambit, but freaking out when hit by one himself, he seemed the scummiest to me after the FA dust settled.

When you replaced in, you seemed to try and distance yourself from your predecessor as much as possible, then go after the fella (me) who still kept his vote on you after the changeover. The people may change, but the roles stay the same.

Your actions pursuing me seem a little scummy to me, but my vote is staying mostly due to lack of other, scummier targets and Boggzie's actions.

*slightly edited for many spelling errors, yikes!*

This was on the bottom of the last page. Maybe you missed it. Here, I'll italicise the bit that sums up the argument.

p.s. Love the attack on anyone else who finds you suspicious. ZOMG! Mcpaltp doesn't find many people scummy in a mini where people keep getting replaced! More news at 11.

pps. I'm really not trying to be mean.

Also, I didn't notice that you were from Scotland and use "canny" deliberately. I just like the word. Does it have a particular significance or is it just more commonly used over there? I

was

married in a kilt, though. (Not a proper tartan, Utilikilts out of Seatle, I like showing off my calves). It was pretty sweet.

[Wolfbullet]

My bad I did miss. Although the point still stands for Franzie. But now the case could also be made that if you are telling the truth then why have you not unvoted as I'm at -3. You think I'm a little scummy and don't have any other supects is reason enough to lynch me?

And canny even though its slang does pretty much replace the offical word(s) all over here. I think it was us or the geordies that made it.

P.S. I think you have gone back to nice guy mode.
P.P.S You are mean but I forgive you because scum are meant to be the baddies.

[Franzie]

Thank you for confirming some of the details about wolfbullet. Do or die?

(edited for brevity)

You didn't even give a reason to vote me.

See post 223:

Wolfbullet, however, came in and immediately started attacking with circumstantial evidence.

Yes, if I look back on my first post, I made an offensive move when I first replaced into the game. However, I feel that my evidence was better than yours. Also, if you look back, I've been most suspicious of Boggzie (the player you replaced) and Flameaxe (who has since dropped off my radar), so this is more than just your actions, I'm afraid, it's more long-term. I'm just re-confirming my first real vote. I really feel that you/Boggz are scum.

I've noticed another interesting pattern such as when mcpaltp removed his vote on Flameaxe you followed suit.

I hadn't noticed, actually. Looking back, I didn't remove it immediately after mcpaltp did, or because he did. I removed my vote because Flameaxe finally showed some maturity in the game and proved that his gambit actually did something...it flushed you out. Maybe you wanted to forget that fact?

Also of interest is that both of you have nothing of interest to say on the other.

I think he's town? *shrug* I haven't said much about Selande/desolator or coxy/martini either, but you don't bring that up.

[Wolfbullet]

However, I feel that my evidence was better than yours.

I have found a voting a pattern, a list of quotes that contractdict themselves and after posting them some unusual behaviour.

Your evidence was one line that said:

Sudden tag-teaming with N-N against the newbies in post 45 seemed scummy to me. Otherwise mostly quiet, and I'm very concerned about his motives.

Boggzie was quiet and get this he had the cheek to say he didn't want to vote off an inactive/lurking player (which ironically was mcpaltp)...OMG scum alert!...I bow to the master.

I like how you cut out where I asked what in mcpaltp's post motivated you to vote for me by the way. Nicely done.

[Franzie]

I like how you cut out where I asked what in mcpaltp's post motivated you to vote for me by the way. Nicely done.

I liked the whole thing. That caused him to vote for you, would you like him to cut it down to one or two lines that made him vote for you too? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. He just confirmed what I was already thinking.

Also, personal attack language (such as "Nicely done") is used as a propaganda technique of painting the other guy as a bad guy. I've been trying to run, if you will, a "clean" campaign. I think you're getting desperate and resorting to personal attacks.

[martini]

except for "The explanation never came by the way.", why did you quote this.
I don't get it.

The first part (post 135) I quoted to show that he voted Flameaxe and thought he was the scummiest player.

The second part (post 154) I quoted to show he then unvoted without giving a decent reason. Like I said Flameaxe revealing it was random isn't exactly monumental. It was basically to further show his bandwagon jumping.

Unless I've misunderstood what your asking and Flameaxe is right and you have mixed up the quote and commentary. The "The explanation never came by the way. This is followed by.. " is what I wrote.

exactly

Don't have time to say much now

[mcpaltp]

I tell you, martini, I have a bit of a hard time telling where you are coming from. Could you clarify, in your own words, what you think about the players? If you don't have time for everybody, just elaborate on me and Wb. Thanks in advance.

[Wolfbullet]

I liked the whole thing. That caused him to vote for you, would you like him to cut it down to one or two lines that made him vote for you too? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. He just confirmed what I was already thinking.

What I'm asking is what exactly in mcpaltp's post confirmed what your thinking.

You said you'd wait for mcpaltp to vote before going to -1, mcpaltp posted and then you voted saying mcpaltp confirmed your thoughts. What exactly in mcpaltp's post confirmed your thoughts?

As for personal attacks by that logic mcpaltp is guilty as well and probably more in this topic.

I think we are beginning to run into a stalemate. Unless something really major happens my vote will not change. I don't expect mcpaltp's nor Franzies will either.

I'm not sure where NN will stand after reading the new stuff but he is currently on mcpaltp. Flameaxe is currently voting on me but has not really got involved or posted any new thoughts on this discussion. I think him, martini and Selande need to read through post there thoughts and then tip the balance one way or the other.

[Wolfbullet]

And wait till everyone has had a say before tipping it by the way.

[NabakovNabakov]

Franzie and Mcpaltap (I'll call him what I want) are throwing out waves of association. Franzie is dimissing the case on mcpaltap as "circumstantial"* and going right up to the brink of outright defending him. And then we have this gem from paltap:

I think this guy is town. He has been very upfront about his reasoning and just feels ok in my gut.

This raises two questions:

1) Is this association scummy? (a.k.a. Could scum really be this bad, a.k.a. WIFOM)
2) Then why did mcpaltap put zazq/Franzie at -1 early on/with little ceremony?

Both players

are

inexperienced and the small size of this game makes every man count, so there's definitely something to the association. As for the the -1 vote, it would have to be an extremely ballsy distancing tactic to fit the paradigm. It's possible that Paltap beleived that the wagon could be broken up before a lynch went down (especially just after I made my "don't vote stupidly" post), but newbie games are notorious for truncated D1's, so he would have been running a bit risk.

Either way, Franzie's vote on Wolfy stinks. The case on mcpaltap is solid, and Franzie is inentionally ignoring all of Wolfbullet's personal contributions to the game, choosing instead to blame Boggzie. What's worse is that most of this has come out retroactively.

I would not be at all surprised if mcpaltap and Franzie were scum together. This isn't a reputation staking matter, but I've seen some major associations in just the last few pages. (Not to mention that Franzie followed paltap onto the the Flameaxe wagon and that both have had very little to say about the other until paltap got put on the spot)

Flameaxe, please unvote.

*This is D1, all evidence is circumstantial. Until we get corpses and/or an investigation, we have nothing to go on but the best that assumptions and deduction can get us.

[Flameaxe]

Unvote

, gonna be re-reading as soon as I can. Quickhammers are not what cool people do, so this must be stopped![/enthusiasm]

[mcpaltp]

Hey lurkers/fellas who haven't really put a strong opinion or vote down. Yeah, you! Whadda think of what's going on here? Do you have any qestions or comments? If the questions are about me, I can answer them reasonably. If they are on somebody else, I can speculate wildly or find a strong case. Knowing me, probably the former.

I'm dyin' in here!

Oh, btw, nice leading, NabNab, all tellin' FA what to do. ZOMG scum! (Not really. I don't think either of you are scum as of right now.) And as for the retroactive suspicion comment, It was FA's smoking out of Boggs that really convinced me. If you'd like, I could keep a running total of scumminess levels or something like that, but those tend to be more than just a little lame. I like my current policy of voting for whomever I think is scummiest at the time. It leaves a good paper trail an helps keep things moving. No FoS for me!

Franzie, the case against me is pretty good. It's coming to the wrong conclusion, but it is good. Why are you not believing it? Just curious, really, I may have just missed the justification.

On a less snarky note, NabNab, I finally realised what your name was refering to, and I'll concede its awesome cleverness. (Achewood is kickin' rad, too.) Why don't you like my handle, though? Ooh! and what do you think it means? Feel free to make snarky anagrams! That last one is an open question, fyi.

[NabakovNabakov]

On a less snarky note, NabNab, I finally realised what your name was refering to, and I'll concede its awesome cleverness. (Achewood is kickin' rad, too.) Why don't you like my handle, though? Ooh! and what do you think it means? Feel free to make snarky anagrams! That last one is an open question, fyi.

Notice that I misspelled his name (the one part of the profile one can't change). I think of you as MC Paltap, resident MafiaScum rap superstar. Taking out that "a" makes the whole thing lose its bounce. (Seriously, that's the first thing I thought when I saw your name)

Two actual things:

1) The case can't be good and come to the wrong conclusion. Either the case is wrong, or the conclusion is correct.
2)The retroactive justification comment was aimed at Franzie. I don't like how a lot of players have ended up explaining their votes only under questioning. Is it really that hard to post an explanation of why you're voting for somebody at the time you vote? (And referring to one or two lines 20 posts ago doesn't cut it; if that was enough to convince you, you would have voted then)

[Wolfbullet]

Selande might need a prod soon I don't think she has posted since Tuesday. Her, martini and Flameaxe really could do with posting something soon so we can progress the game a bit.

And tis a good point about why Franzie does not believe my evidence. Does seem more like a blind defense of mcpaltp than not believeing the evidence. And as I said somewhere why is he not suspicious at all when along with that evidence mcpaltp put him (or sk407) to -1. I know people shouldn't OMGUS but getting put to -1 should at least stir up some suspicions.

And if I was mcpaltp and I was town I'd be more than "just curious" as to why someone was going to such measures do defend me espcially after admiting that it was a good case. I'd suspect them off purposefully making it look as if I was there partner. (Does that have a term/abbreviation by the way?) mcpaltp doesn't sound like a town suspecting someone, he sounds like scum trying to tell his partner to calm down.

[mcpaltp]

Oh you got me, I must be scum. Franzie, I told you not to defend me too much! It'll look scummy! It'll look bad when I flip scu-- waitta minute, I'm not scum! what was I thinking?

Franzie may or may not be scum. Like hell if I know. I'm thinking town, but in no way am I sure. You sure seem sure, though. Boy is your face gonna be red when I flip town, dude.

I predict that due to all of the noise that I'm making, WB will switch his scrutiny to somebody else (probably Franzie) that seems "connected" with me. When they flip, if scum(great busing, dude) he can do the whole "aha!" moment and finger me as confirmed scum. If town, he can just go for the "sorry guys I guess I was wrong. Mcpaltp is still scum though. Lynch him!" With two scum left, he will have a majority with his scumbuddy and the scum will win.

It's a brilliant plan and that's what I'd do as scum.

Notice him cooling on me a little bit and starting to put feelers out on others? It's because I seemed like an easy lynch, and he is afraid of how he'll look when I flip town. I'll give you good odds that he knows full well who the town and who the scum are. He'll go for another lynch and "save" me for later.

The way I see it is either lynch Wolfbullet, or lynch me. I'm just vanilla, so it's not like you'll be missing a doctor or cop power, and it'll indicate pretty clearly that Wb is scum so at least you'll have a chance at lylo. IF you lynch Wb, hitting scum, I'll have a decent chance of getting night-killed and you should have a little leeway as the days go on.

Seriously, I win with town, so if everyone is too suspicious of me to let me live, kill me! Just please win afterwards, ok?

And hey, about the whole -1 thing: oops! I made a mistake and fixed it asap. I realised it after, what, a couple of minutes? If that's what you want to try and pin on me, cool. I see it as you digging your own grave for when I flip town.

[mcpaltp]

Notice that I misspelled his name (the one part of the profile one can't change). I think of you as MC Paltap, resident MafiaScum rap superstar. Taking out that "a" makes the whole thing lose its bounce. (Seriously, that's the first thing I thought when I saw your name)

Two actual things:

1) The case can't be good and come to the wrong conclusion. Either the case is wrong, or the conclusion is correct.
2)The retroactive justification comment was aimed at Franzie. I don't like how a lot of players have ended up explaining their votes only under questioning. Is it really that hard to post an explanation of why you're voting for somebody at the time you vote? (And referring to one or two lines 20 posts ago doesn't cut it; if that was enough to convince you, you would have voted then)

Aw snap NabyNaby/You have me in your sights
Feeling kinda crabby?/I may be dead tonight
Forum rap superstar/I'm gonna make it right
I may make it far/My name's gonna be in lights

I feel a record deal coming on!

1) You are right, I'll clarify: The argument was

presented persuasively and well reasoned

but it's a bad case and is wrong. Better?
2) Cool. If I live I'll try and be extra explicit in my reasoning. I guess I've been a little lax. (zomg breadcrumb "xxx")

[Wolfbullet]

I predict that due to all of the noise that I'm making, WB will switch his scrutiny to somebody else (probably Franzie)

Is this meant to be some jedi mind trick or something? Your entire post was filled with what I'm apparently gonna do.

Don't worry I'm not gonna change my vote. Franzie looks very scummy but still not as bad as you. As for cooling off thats because I've got all the evidence I can find and am waiting for the others to show up to post something. I've decided to do something productive like work out who your partner is. Not heard from you who you think my scumbuddy is.

If you turn up scum I'll get killed in the night and Franzie is likely (and probably deservedely) to get lynched day 2.
If you somehow do turn up town then I expect the remaining scum will make sure I survive the night to be the scapegoat on day 2 but thats the risk I'm willing to take.

[Wolfbullet]

Oh and it wasn't you who fixed the mistake someone else unvoted. And no it wasn't a few minutes it was 7 hours...well done on making yourself look bad though.

[Wolfbullet]

Sorry I made a mistake it was in fact 14 hours before you realised.

[mcpaltp]

Nice damage control for justifying why you won't be nightkilled tonight when I flip town.

And as for the timing thing: oops. didn't fact check. I guess I was thinking of another game. Ya got me. Newbie mistake? :haw:

Oh, and Franzie, I sure hope you are town, because Wb (resident scum) has given you a free pass from nightkills. Kickin' rad.

[Wolfbullet]

Nice damage control for justifying why you won't be nightkilled tonight when I flip town.

You seem to forget that if I'm the one that gets lynched today then you will be alive for day 2 either as scum (probable) or a townie about to take the fall just the same as I would have (in your case not probable).

And I don't get the free pass thing. If he is scum he can kill anyone he wants anyways. Or you mean mafia won't target him in which case if he is town thats a good thing...and if he is scum its not like he was about to shoot himself...so what was your point?

[mcpaltp]

Wth all of the pressure you are starting to lay on him, the scum (which include you, in all liklihood) will want to keep him around for another night. "Saving" easy lynches is a common scum tactic. Also, I honestly expect to be lynched today, so I'm just trying to give tips to the town so I can still win.

All I'm sayin' is that I'm pretty darn positive that Franzie will not be killed tonight. If he's scum, duh. If he's town, the scum would potentially like to keep him around for an easy lynch later.