Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[VampanezeHunter]

Yea just to clear things up...I think that D_O(lol) is town collapsing under immense pressure from Khelv. Which is fair enough, but now I think that Khelv is also town. Really it is just a gut feeling

after

I took a step back to look at this game from a neutral view, instead of a townie who dislikes someone! I reckon that D_O(lol again) has made errors because he is trying to defend himself but has accidently posted horrible posts which has lead him to being lynch-4 which, although it doesn't sound too bad, for a person who is realitavely new to this game it seems too close to a lynch for his/her liking(probably)!

[Plessiez]

Yea just to clear things up...I think that D_O(lol) is town collapsing under immense pressure from Khelv. Which is fair enough, but now I think that Khelv is also town.

I'm afraid this doesn't clear anything up at all.

Please explain why you think either player is town - in particular, I want to see links to posts than you think are signs of pro-townness, rather than just vague mentions of having looked at the game from a neutral point of view.

And if you think both are town, who would you say are you current top three guesses for scum? (If you have any, that is).

[Hjallti]

VampanezeHunter, why do you state this as fact rather than ask the direct question to death_omen (I want to know what happens if I type D ) _ ) O ) without the spaces: D)_)O) )

Khelvaster, have you ever lost games, or lead town in townlynch due to tunneling?

Death_Omen, What is your goal for this game as a townie? Is it trying to survive? Or trying to help town to a win? Do you know that you also win with town if you don't survive the game as a townie?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

9th Vote Count of Day 1

somestrangeflea - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
death_omen - 3 (Khelvaster, vampyrusddg, Muerrto)
Khelvaster - 1 (Hjallti)

Not Voting:

- 7 (death_omen, DeathSauce, Hyphen-ated, Malchonn, Plessiez, somestrangeflea, VampaneseHunter)

7 to Lynch

Also, VampaneseHunter is going away to camp for the week starting Saturday (2 days from now). He'll be back with us the following weekend. If you guys feel that he needs to be replaced because he's vital to the game at this time, I can find him a replacement, but he's asked to be able to return to the game.

[death_omen]

VampanezeHunter, why do you state this as fact rather than ask the direct question to death_omen (I want to know what happens if I type D ) _ ) O ) without the spaces: D)_)O) )

Khelvaster, have you ever lost games, or lead town in townlynch due to tunneling?

Death_Omen, What is your goal for this game as a townie? Is it trying to survive? Or trying to help town to a win? Do you know that you also win with town if you don't survive the game as a townie?

I am working towards the same goal as all of you, trying to survive would be close to the top, but winning is at the top.

Khelvaster seems to have gone quite after all those attacks at me, now that he sees most of the town disagreeing with him. I would like to hear the new replacemetns take on things lately.

Noobie Question: Whats tunneling?

[Khelvaster]

Khelvaster, have you ever lost games, or lead town in townlynch due to tunneling?

No, I can't say I have. My tunneling targets have been correct when I tried to tunnel as much as I have Death Omen. If I am less sure, I will pull away (Like I did once on a Battle Mage lynch.) Death Omen broke down completely--something a town is much less likely to do than a scum.

[Nelly632]

Hello everyone, I must say that having to go through 10 pages of post equaling 229 posts was actually kind of grueling. I wont say that I read every single post word for word (Plessiez can write his butt off) but what I did was use a notebook to keep track of vote counts and used Microsoft word to write down notes so that when I started to write this I would have something to go on. If your name does not come up it is probably because you didn’t stick out in my mind, hell after page five it was like a blur to me lol…

Vampaneze Hunter
First thing that stood out in my mind with him was his first vote for Hjallti, he claimed that this was simply a random vote but for me I found it hard that he could just pull a random name out of the list and it turned out to be a person who voted for him. So this struck me as a lie and kind of scummy, he also started to push some heat on Kheluaster which struck me as odd. Another thing that really has no basis in my mind besides my gut feeling was his post #150, in this post I believe he simply came back to the game after a while away and simply made a small comment in his statement which was agreeing with Plessiez about finding more info on Omens other Mafia members before he was lynched incase he did turn out to be Mafia. While this is a sounds ideal I got a weird feeling about how he agreed but nothing major.

I would like to pose a few questions toward Vampaneze Hunter and please once again correct me If I am wrong with any of these comments because I went through the thread in about a hour and a half…

1)Do you still stand by your comment that your first vote was completely random or would you like to say that it was based on him voting for you?

2) If I am not mistaken you pushed slightly for Kheluster in the early stages of the game. If this is correct and now you have a FOS on him why haven’t you cast your vote for him to apply some pressure?

3) Since you agree that we should find out some more info about Mafia before we quick lynch and assuming that Omen is Mafia, who would you suspect as other Mafia members?


Vampyrysddg

Honestly the one player in this game who strikes me as townie, the reasoning behind that being that he has flip flopped on his votes so many times that this would be a clear way to draw attention to yourself which is something Mafia does not like to do. His first vote for Muerrto was casted after Plessiez cast his first vote for Muerrto, his second vote for Vampaneze hunter was a bandwagon vote. His votes there after were for Hjallti, Malchonn & Death Omen. I noticed that he never cast a vote for someone who hadn’t already had a vote on them. My thoughts on that were simply, this is either a brilliant strategy by a Mafia member or a indecisive strategy by a townie, my opinion lying towards the latter obviously.

1)Each time you changed your vote were you truly convinced at that moment that the person you were changing your vote for was scum or was it simply a way to apply pressure?

2) If a person became -1 would you be willing to hammer that person and end day one?

3) In other Mafia games do you flip flop as much or is it just this game in particular?

Death Omen

The lamb that Kheluster is attempting to lead to slaughter, I can honestly clump my name in with the people who are NOT convinced in your guilt at this point. You were the first person in the game to cast a second vote on someone while we were still doing the random votes which is not a crime but suspicious. Vampyrusddg unvoted and voted for Vampaneze Hunter then you quickly changed your vote giving me the impression that you could be scum and Hunter is your partner in crime and you didn’t want to see a quick lynch, it would be interesting to see if Hunter cast a vote for you down the line. Then the biggest thing you did that drew suspicion was trying to turn people onto Muerrto for simply being vocal, that had to be the scummiest thing you did in this game but I can say that in a sense Kheluster is trying to get you lynched but if it wasn’t for his non-stop gunning for you I would cast my vote your way but at this point I simply cast a FOS toward you…

1) It seems only reasonable for you to assume that if Kheluster is gunning for you and you are townie then he is infact Mafia. With that being said why have you yet to cast your vote his way?

2)What are your thoughts on VampHunter?

3) It has been said that you claim to have a special role in this game is this true? If so don’t you believe that hinting toward a special role would put a target on your back when night falls?

Kheluster

My favorite thus far, you are the person that strikes me as SCUM and here are a few reasons why. Your first vote in the game was cast toward Muerrto and at such a early stage in the game you had no real problem placing him 3 votes up and 4 votes shy of a lynching and then laid claim that it was random. Then you make a ludicrous claim that you are confirming your vote for Muerrto and while you may not have meant it like this I took it as if you were going to stand by this vote as if you had some prior knowledge that he was scum and as we know prior knowledge is impossible unless you are SCUM and then you would know who all the townies are. Then WITHIN TWO POST from you, you go from CONFIRMING your vote on Muerrto to starting a bandwagon on Death Omen who you had not mentioned until placing a vote on him. Then you don’t give him a chance to reply you simply attempt to get people to bandwagon him by using the excuse of PRESSURE. You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir, you have to understand that in a sense all we can see is Death Omen defending himself from a quick lynch that truthfully was unwarranted at the beginning and became warranted after you called him out. Kind of like watching your dog sleep quietly and peacefully and then waking her up and placing your favorite pair of shoes in front of her with a piece of meat in them and when she goes to chew on your shoe you hit her.

You MADE him get defensive then you laid into him and took everything he said and used it in your own favor.

1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?

2) You performed a total 180 from Muerrto to Death Omen very quickly, while I might have missed it do you still have suspicion toward Muerrto? If so can you please lay out a claim for him to be lynched?

3) Death Omen is lynched today, what are you going to do now?


Now like I said I went through 10 pages today and in my notes these were the only people that stood out in my eyes. Interesting enough in my notes I put that Muerrto & Plessiez do not strike me as SCUM but I have nothing to back that up so I didn’t list their names. Another note was “Plessiez POST 107 WOW! Great way to kick start the game”. As you can see these notes were useless toward placing these people’s names on the list above. I am more then willing to answer any questions in regard to this game so you all can get a better feel of how I play. I am not casting my vote as of yet because I want to see how things progress now that I am active but I will say that if I had to cast right now it would be Kheluster…

[Muerrto]

First off, welcome. Great post.

Vampyrysddg

Honestly the one player in this game who strikes me as townie, the reasoning behind that being that he has flip flopped on his votes so many times that this would be a clear way to draw attention to yourself which is something Mafia does not like to do. His first vote for Muerrto was casted after Plessiez cast his first vote for Muerrto, his second vote for Vampaneze hunter was a bandwagon vote. His votes there after were for Hjallti, Malchonn & Death Omen. I noticed that he never cast a vote for someone who hadn’t already had a vote on them. My thoughts on that were simply, this is either a brilliant strategy by a Mafia member or a indecisive strategy by a townie, my opinion lying towards the latter obviously.

Just a small note(altho I hate to metagame), Vamp is NEVER all over the place with his votes but I think most of the votes you quoted were in the random stage still or poking lurkers. But revise your opinion of Vamp quickly. He'll be a great town asset or a deadly mafia. I always watch him closely.

Not saying he's scum, but don't even come close to thinking he's not a good player.


Also, great points about Khev which is why he has my FoS. DO has my vote because his defense has been nothing but crap.

Now a question for you:

1) Compare Khev and DO and tell me why one seems more scummy than the other.


To answer my own question. Yes Khev's pushing a lynch hardcore but look at how he's played so far. He doesn't exactly run slowly towards the brick wall. If DO's town and we lynch him then Khev will definitely smack that wall hard and if he's town also we'll screw up 2 days.

DO however has had no defense. When asked to he has simply given up and attacked lurkers and Khev. He's even hinted a power role but has also basically said(when he said he gave up) that he's not planning on RC'ing it. What is that?

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote. Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role. Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Now the fact that he's ruthlessly, unflichingly, and blatantly attacking you and requesting for your speedlynch might mean he's scum. So convince me he's not right. Period. You'll notice each reply I give to you says 'vote stands'. Make it not so.

[Nelly632]

I understand that Vampy is probably a good player and by my comments I did not mean to imply that he is a bad player. Obviously you have played with him much so I will take your word for it, I will concede that once rereading the comments it would appear that all but the Demon vote was done in good fun during the random stage.

As far as the comparison to between Kheluaster & DO well here area a few thoughts in my head and I actually might have said them already…

D.O
--- By unvoting Vamphunter when I believe he had three votes on him could have been a situation where he was placing the vote on Hunter who is possibly a second Mafia member to throw off people down the line. Then when he saw it was 3 votes he quickly changed his vote just incase a bandwagon formed. But two things are wrong with this, ONE being that D.O & Hunter would have to be scum meaning I picked out two scum at the beginning which is highly unlikely. Two, we were still inn the random vote stage so I might be over thinking Omens first vote.

--- The attempted bandwagon of Muerrto that he tried sticks out in my mind as scummy, to me it appears like a man trying to keep the attention away from himself. Problem was he encountered a lot of resistance from people who realized that Muerrto was simply talking and that was not enough reason to lynch him or start a bandwagon toward him.

--- But on that same note I have been in D.O place with people attacking me and dissecting every word I say and sometimes it is hard to articulate what you have in your head. They say the best defense is a strong offense and I think that D.O would benefit himself with a stronger offense to get everyone off his back. Right now he is simply being defensive toward everything that is happening. Hell if you need to take the time and reread the thread and come up with a valid opinion that might sway people otherwise. (I apologize if you have already done this D.O)

Now he is coming off less scummy and more desperate…

Kheluaster

---- I have to reiterate that the scummiest thing he has done thus far is his ruthless bandwagon of D.O. Simply voting for him was not good enough in his eyes he was insistent on us reaching a LYNCH quickly as if he didn’t want us to have time to over think the situation. Then when people came out and gave valid reasons as to why we should not be so quick to judge he pounced on it and made comments that did not make sense. When working on wood you measure twice and cut ONCE, we are making a choice that could send us into the night missing one townie and he just doesn’t see that. Even though he knows in his head that that could possibly happen he has us convinced that he is so convinced in his head that D.O is scum that it makes me wonder if that is really what he is thinking. Hell he COULD be thinking that he is so good at this game that he can have us lynch one of our own go into night kill one of us off get identified by the cop and have us lynch the cop the next day then put us in a real whole… Damn that actually isn’t a bad ideal now that I think about it, he could be pushing for us to end day one because he knows the cop will investigate him at night and when the next day comes and the first vote comes his way he will assume that is a COP and push for him to get lynched… BUT MIND YOU THIS IS IF HE IS SCUM and truthfully I am about 90 percent convinced that he is scum but NEVER 100 percent until the death has occurred and the role is revealed… I would never be so bold as to state that I am 100 percent sure unless I am a cop and even then I would be afraid of being the insane cop…

Honestly I am waiting for a few answers from the questions I asked and especially from Kheluaster, then once that is all done I will feel confident in casting my vote…Muerrto you say that you want D.O to give you a reason to unvote him and I say I want Kheluaster to give me a good reason not to cast my vote his way…

[Khelvaster]

This is very important to read, especially the stuff about Muerrto. You can overlook the Nelly stuff if you want--Muerrto and D_O are almost totally linked.

Notice how, in this post, I defend myself against my accusations *compares self to Death Omen* in addition to making attacks against Nelly and Muerrto.

First off, Muerrto and more of his scumtalking

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote.

Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role.

Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Yikes! Now tell me, everybody, is there any possible way I am misinterpreting this, or is Muerrto giving advice to his scumbuddy, Death_Omen? I had an issue with Muerrto trying to feed lines to D_O at the beginning. Now he does it again, this time blatantly. Now, I am fine with defense, but direct advice? Muerrto acts as if he knows D_O is town. I don't see how anyone could think that at this point.

Now the fact that he's ruthlessly, unflichingly, and blatantly attacking you and requesting for your speedlynch might mean he's scum.
So convince me he's not right. Period. You'll notice each reply I give to you says 'vote stands'. Make it not so.

Yeah, pleading with his scumbuddy to give some defense. This is not going to fly as long as I am in this game.

Then you make a ludicrous claim that you are confirming your vote for Muerrto and while you may not have meant it like this I took it as if you were going to stand by this vote as if you had some prior knowledge that he was scum

A confirm vote: XXXX is used if, after a random vote/exploratory vote, you stumble across evidence that makes you think the person you are voting for is actually scum. You did totally misinterpret what confirm vote:XXX means.

Then WITHIN TWO POST from you,

If by WITHIN TWO POST, you mean four posts later

you go from CONFIRMING your vote on Muerrto to starting a bandwagon on Death Omen who you had not mentioned until placing a vote on him. Then you don’t give him a chance to reply you simply attempt to get people to bandwagon him by using the excuse of PRESSURE.

D_O attacked Muerrto for defending himself well. There is no reason that is anything but scummy. Given the recent stuff with Muerrto, it is even possible scumdistancing.

You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir,

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

You MADE him get defensive then you laid into him and took everything he said and used it in your own favor.

Lemme use your dog analagy. If I put my shoes by my dog, give him meat, and then hit him, he is likely to be somewhat defensive, or maybe attack me. He won't jump at the throat of three people who are sitting quietly in the corner (lurkers.) If he does, there is something wrong with him (scum.) Anyway, I've already made a huge number of cases against Death Omen.

1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?

This is a hugely scummy question. There is no right answer to it--any answer I make would implicate me as scum or would let you WIFOM me into scum. The problem is, whether the person being asked this question is scum, SK, town, or anything but jester, they will say no. I will not volunteer myself as a lynch if D_O comes up innocent. However, I will say, if I were one of you, I would lynch myself d2 if he were innocent. This would lead to a town loss. Thus, I would not be doing what I am doing right now unless his actions were as scummy as they are now.

2) You performed a total 180 from Muerrto to Death Omen very quickly, while I might have missed it do you still have suspicion toward Muerrto? If so can you please lay out a claim for him to be lynched?

My answer to this is in my case against Muerrto, which at the top of this post.

3) Death Omen is lynched today, what are you going to do now?

You mean,

If

D_O is lynched today, I take it? My answer is, I will most likely vote for Muerrto, seeing as he keeps trying to give D_O advice. D_O coming up scum would mean Muerrto is almost guaranteed to be scum.

------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, my name isn't Kheluster. It's Khelvaster, although I do have a certain pearly luster after I am polished . Anyway, from your posting,

Massive FoS: Nelly

You are sounding entirely too sympathetic towards Death_Omen. I can understand if maybe you aren't totally convinced he is scum. Not having any suspicion, however, just strikes me as strange.

[Khelvaster]

I didn't see this post about me when I posted--it took me over 15 minutes to assemble my last post. Here's my response.

---- I have to reiterate that the scummiest thing he has done thus far is his ruthless bandwagon of D.O. Simply voting for him was not good enough in his eyes he was insistent on us reaching a LYNCH quickly as if he didn’t want us to have time to over think the situation.

This was based on a notion which I thought was true, but which I was then assured was false (that we could beat the mod's replacements, and thus see if they were scum or not.) Please look at my defenses before you go on the offensive.

Then when people came out and gave valid reasons as to why we should not be so quick to judge he pounced on it and made comments that did not make sense. When working on wood you measure twice and cut ONCE, we are making a choice that could send us into the night missing one townie and he just doesn’t see that.

And one which would have, at very worse, traded one townie for the confirmation of two. However, after I was told it didn't work, I switched gears. Again, attack my explanations of my actions if you are groping for a handle--don't attack things I have already explained. It is annoying for me to repeat myself.

Even though he knows in his head that that could possibly happen he has us convinced that he is so convinced in his head that D.O is scum that it makes me wonder if that is really what he is thinking.

Blatant hypocrisy alert:

In the last post you made, you accused me of having said "If D_O turns out to be town" as if even considering that I might be wrong was bad. I did a worst case scenario, and you said that was scummy. Now you say that I am bad for not having done this.

Hell he COULD be thinking that he is so good at this game that he can have us lynch one of our own go into night kill one of us off get identified by the cop and have us lynch the cop the next day then put us in a real whole…

What? This doesn't even make sense. You are saying I am scum thinking I am so good I will get myself ID'd by a cop, then lynch the cop? How about this:

IF A COP DECLARES A GUILTY INVESTIGATION ON ME D2, PLEASE LYNCH ME, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Yes, this is an invitation for a cop to investigate me.

At worst, I sacrifice myself to get a scum lynched d3 (false claim scum.) I will be disappointed at not surviving, but I trust this town to lynch the final scum without me, if need be.

Damn that actually isn’t a bad idea now that I think about it, he could be pushing for us to end day one because he knows the cop will investigate him at night and when the next day comes and the first vote comes his way he will assume that is a COP
and push for him to get lynched…

You seem really, really sure that I am guilty. You also seem sure that, by spewing out what I will do d2, you will somehow get my lynched today. There is no fucking way that flying into a rage at me and saying what I will do d2 is pro-town. This goes double by the fact that you set me up for another self-fulfilling prophecy. If I don't act as you say d2 (if you or Muerrto don't get the first vote on me,) then you can say it was because I read your post, and as scum I changed my ways. Townies don't use logical fallacies as reasons for lynches.

BUT MIND YOU THIS IS IF HE IS SCUM and truthfully I am about 90 percent convinced that he is scum but NEVER 100 percent until the death has occurred and the role is revealed…/quote]
Yes, of course you wouldn't have wanted to lynch me if I were town. Good job with that escape clause, however blatant it is.

Honestly I am waiting for a few answers from the questions I asked and especially from Kheluaster, then once that is all done I will feel confident in casting my vote…Muerrto you say that you want D.O to give you a reason to unvote him and I say I want Kheluaster to give me a good reason not to cast my vote his way…

Well, seeing as I believe I outed your scumtrio, I don't think there is a good reason for you not to vote me.

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP:

Scumtrio, in order of probabilities:

1. Muerrto
2. Nellie
3. Death_Omen

That said,

unvote; I will vote for whoever reaches hammering distance first: Omen, Muerrto, or Nellie.

Allow me to explain: Muerrto kept on with that scumtalk at Death Omen under the guise of help again. The first time, it was questionable, and I felt better sticking to the solid scum of Death Omen. However, Muerrto could be trying to link himself to D_O in an attempt to get a D_O lynch to be innocent and then to capitalize on my lynch. Nellie, on the other hand, blew up over D_O and also doesn't seem to say anything bad about Muerrto besides a slight, noncommital expression of suspicion.

These two could, although they would have to be pretty stupid to do so, be trying to frame up D_O for a d1 lynch, seeing as how he very well might be cracking apart. Now, this is a very tiny chance, but it is possible. I don't see any way for Nellie or Muerrto to be pro-town at all. I will vote for whichever one can be lynched. I am not OMGUSing Nellie, you must realize. Her arguments are seriously flawed to the point of being absolutely useless as arguments. Muerrto, on the other hand, keeps feeding D_O lines, in addition to pleading for him. D_O, meanwhile, isn't taking Muerrto's lines. This is something I just noticed, and something which may make D_O town in the end, though this is very unlikely.

I also noticed how both Muerrto and Nellie were trying to get me to set myself up as a d2 lynch if D_O came up town. I just realized that this could be a scum move to secure the game as well as a pro-town move, and thus, I will treat D_O with a slight amount of caution. I no longer think he is todays play; rather, Muerrto or Nellie are. If, however, you guys think he should be lynched, I would gladly lynch him (he would be the d3 lynch otherwise, barring an N2 cop investigation coming up innocent.)

[Khelvaster]

I will now quadruple-post to apologize for the triple post .

[Muerrto]

This is very important to read, especially the stuff about Muerrto. You can overlook the Nelly stuff if you want--Muerrto and D_O are almost totally linked.

Notice how, in this post, I defend myself against my accusations *compares self to Death Omen* in addition to making attacks against Nelly and Muerrto.

First off, Muerrto and more of his scumtalking

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote.

Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role.

Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Yikes! Now tell me, everybody, is there any possible way I am misinterpreting this, or is Muerrto giving advice to his scumbuddy, Death_Omen?

Um Khev. I'm sure this is gonna be echoed by everyone else but...SLOW DOWN with your accusations and pushes for a lynch!

I've given DO advice multiple times, I'll quote the posts.

I've ALSO given YOU advice multiple times and you even mentioned that I had and that I was being too nice to you. So are you my scumbuddy too?

What I said above to DO was nothing more than what I've said like 10 times to him already. Read back. I've done it A TON. Because if he IS town and especially if he IS a power role I DON'T want him dead because he gave up.

I've told him a million times to defend himself, I told him RC'ing wasn't needed, I told him to stop attacking his attackers.

I told YOU to slow down, to not be so convinced you're the sherlock holmes of mafia, to stop calling for a speed lynch that will have you killed on day 2.

I'd FoS you again but what's the point. I still think DO is scummier so my vote stays but you shouting that you've solved the game in like 6 pages isn't helping any.


Oh, and just so you don't have to bother to quote me again, my advice to DO:

This post was horrible. You flew off the handle, you said 'IF' you came up town, you set up a day 2 lynch on someone that you SHOULDN'T have any clue if they're town or not, you said you started defending yourself and attacked Khev, you then attacked the lurkers, then you breadcrumbed a power role.

Wanna try for a take two?

Not a line I EVER want to see from a townie, ESPECIALLY since you're semi-claiming a power role. You're just going to give up if you're the doctor or the cop or whatever and say screw the town just because people suspect you!? Horrible.

Vote stands. Work on your defense a bit more and stop trying to attack your attackers. You attacked Khev, me, the lurkers, and no where did you state WHY you placed the vote in the first place.

And I agree. I still think you're scummier for never defending and always attacking and for voting me because I post and for NUMEROUS other reasons but I'm not missing Khev's posts, believe me.

I just said I want an explanation of why he's always got some kind of

inside scoop

, I've told him many times to slow down, to not set himself up as our day 2 lynch etc.

I also just said that unless his latest post is explained satisfactorily he'll be in my scope for a few pages to come. That last post about replacments can't be scum was just weird to say the least.

Also, great points about Khev which is why he has my FoS. DO has my vote because his defense has been nothing but crap.

Yes Khev's pushing a lynch hardcore but look at how he's played so far. He doesn't exactly run slowly towards the brick wall. If DO's town and we lynch him then Khev will definitely smack that wall hard and if he's town also we'll screw up 2 days.

DO however has had no defense. When asked to he has simply given up and attacked lurkers and Khev. He's even hinted a power role but has also basically said(when he said he gave up) that he's not planning on RC'ing it. What is that?

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote. Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role. Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Now the fact that he's ruthlessly, unflichingly, and blatantly attacking you and requesting for your speedlynch might mean he's scum. So convince me he's not right. Period. You'll notice each reply I give to you says 'vote stands'. Make it not so.

And not to leave out Khev...

I'm not sure Omen saying someone is 'jumpy' is as scummy as you're making it out to be. Would you lynch either me or Omen on that evidence right now? If your answer is yes I encourage you to slow down a bit. Making day 1 last as long as possible is always good for the town.

I believe at the moment they're both just over exicted townies until I see otherwise. The point of all this WIFOM was to prove to Omen that I know we're not scum buddies and to tell him to slow down a little.

Khev needs to do the same thing and I've told him as such but unfortunately he's not listening because he's already found a scum pair. Shrug.

Also keep in mind that since alot of people DO think Omen is scum we can watch for some heavy distancing before he's lynched. Which you're actually appearing to do at the moment. Not saying you're scum, just saying slow your roll. If Omen comes up town your shouting for a speed lynch is gonna get you strung up day 2 and if you ARE town then we'll be at a HUGE disadvantage day 3.

I don't know. I said I don't think you are. You came off to me early and still do as an over anxious townie. Now if you continue to rush a lynch and Omen is town that may change. I also think Omen is scum which is why I'm not pursuing you, but I'm not 100% convinced like you are. It's dangerous to be that sure.

Um...why would we know they're not scum just because they need replacing? Careful Khev. Your replacement comment earlier as Pless already pointed out sounds like you know who's going to die and who's not. So explain this very carefully to me.

I just said I want an explanation of why he's always got some kind of

inside scoop

, I've told him many times to slow down, to not set himself up as our day 2 lynch etc.

Well first off I agree that's a pretty underhanded tactic and not in the spirit of the game. But second remember that some of the people not posting might just be lurking and not being replaced.

But your explanation(while I don't like your methods) makes sense.

Yes Khev's pushing a lynch hardcore but look at how he's played so far. He doesn't exactly run slowly towards the brick wall. If DO's town and we lynch him then Khev will definitely smack that wall hard and if he's town also we'll screw up 2 days.

DO however has had no defense. When asked to he has simply given up and attacked lurkers and Khev. He's even hinted a power role but has also basically said(when he said he gave up) that he's not planning on RC'ing it. What is that?

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote. Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role. Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Now the fact that he's ruthlessly, unflichingly, and blatantly attacking you and requesting for your speedlynch might mean he's scum. So convince me he's not right. Period. You'll notice each reply I give to you says 'vote stands'. Make it not so.

So...yeah. I give advice to players who IMO(no offense meant) aren't playing well. That's what I do.

You're rushing day 1 and 100% convinced every time you find someone.

DO hinted a power role then gave up and is probably going to be lynched unless he speaks up.

Both of you need to alter your playstyle slightly and you BOTH need to try a take 2.

[Muerrto]

Scumtrio, in order of probabilities:

1. Muerrto
2. Nellie
3. Death_Omen

That said,

unvote; I will vote for whoever reaches hammering distance first: Omen, Muerrto, or Nellie.

Sigh. My post to slow down AGAIN fell a second too late as you posted these trio during my post being typed up.

So now you've found the third scum? Me, Nell(which is WLC, the one DO voted for in the first place that started all this), and DO...who I'm currently voting for. And who Nelly suspects. So we're ALL bussing each other?

And mentioning that Nelly didn't find anything suspicious about me is strange and makes him my scum buddy? So...does that make like 6 other people playing my scumbuddies? Cause pretty much everyone but you, Flea(somewhat), and Sauce haven't really had a suspiscion of me either.

Your suspiscion of me is that every time I give someone advice you think I'm 'feeding them lines'. Small hint, mafia don't do that. Feeding lines is a blatant scum tell and a damn good way to get lynched.

I'd say slow down again but it wouldn't matter. You've set up day 1, 2, and 3 lynches and the first one that turns up town, you'll be lynched the next day for causing it. I give up trying to reason with you. For now I'm going to picture you as the guy sitting in the corner foaming at the mouth and see what everyone else thinks.

You have to be a tad more conservative with your votes/accusations if you're going to be 100% convinced every time.

[Nelly632]

Khelvaster Wrote

If by WITHIN TWO POST, you mean four posts later

Post 45 was your conformation vote…
1st post after this was post number 47
2nd post is number 63
3rd post number 99
Then we have the infamous post number 100 So it was within 3 post but it still doesn’t make it any better…

D_O attacked Muerrto for defending himself well. There is no reason that is anything but scummy. Given the recent stuff with Muerrto, it is even possible scumdistancing.

So what you are saying is that by D.O simply attacking Muerrto the person who you voted for you are so convinced that he is Mafia that you jump all over him. Seems odd to me…

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

I am sorry can you explain that to me in lamest terms because I have no clue what you are talking about.

Lemme use your dog analagy. If I put my shoes by my dog, give him meat, and then hit him, he is likely to be somewhat defensive, or maybe attack me. He won't jump at the throat of three people who are sitting quietly in the corner (lurkers.) If he does, there is something wrong with him (scum.) Anyway, I've already made a huge number of cases against Death Omen.

You sounds like Michael Vick to me…

This is a hugely scummy question. There is no right answer to it--any answer I make would implicate me as scum or would let you WIFOM me into scum. The problem is, whether the person being asked this question is scum, SK, town, or anything but jester, they will say no. I will not volunteer myself as a lynch if D_O comes up innocent. However, I will say, if I were one of you, I would lynch myself d2 if he were innocent. This would lead to a town loss. Thus, I would not be doing what I am doing right now unless his actions were as scummy as they are now.

Once again I am sorry but you have to clarify this comment for me because it sounds like double talking. But what I am saying is are you so sure that he is SCUM that you would put your DAY TWO life on it?

You mean, If D_O is lynched today, I take it? My answer is, I will most likely vote for Muerrto, seeing as he keeps trying to give D_O advice. D_O coming up scum

would mean Muerrto is almost guaranteed to be scum.

In your eyes SIR and that is the problem you are pointing fingers at people who do not see your point of view and that is why I asccuse you of believing you are better at this then the rest of us because you are already convinced of the guilty parties while the rest of us keep a open mind.

You are sounding entirely too sympathetic towards Death_Omen. I can understand if maybe you aren't totally convinced he is scum. Not having any suspicion, however, just strikes me as strange.

Yes I am extremely sympathetic to a person who is being bandwagoned by someone else for no real reason except being defensive… But then again we now see who is really defensive…

This was based on a notion which I thought was true, but which I was then assured was false (that we could beat the mod's replacements, and thus see if they were scum or not.) Please look at my defenses before you go on the offensive.

I was simply answering a question and I really find it hard to believe that you based your quick lynch comments all on the night phase coming and us avoiding the replacements. Maybe you were more fearful of a replacement like myself coming in a seeing you for what you really are…

And one which would have, at very worse, traded one townie for the confirmation of two. However, after I was told it didn't work, I switched gears. Again, attack my explanations of my actions if you are groping for a handle--don't attack things I have already explained. It is annoying for me to repeat myself.

Once again let me

repeat

myself, your defense is terrible and unbelievable…

Then finally I see what I wanted to see all along, the man who was so quick to hound Death Omen got extremely defensive and said this…

I will vote for whoever reaches hammering distance first: Omen, Muerrto, or Nellie.

Basically saying to us that “I see you all are not coming around to the thought of voting off Death Omen so please consider these 3 people and vote for one of them and I will hammer them with no questions asked”…

LOL… You can point your finger at me all you want sir but through this entire game you applied pressure and finally when the pressure was on you… YOU CRACKED with only a single vote cast for you….

[Hjallti]

You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir,

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

You didn't answer his remark but went around it. If you are sure he is scum, you can't consider the possibility he is not, so you are not sure, and shouldn't have claimed to be sure in the first place. Saying you are sure is leaving out the rest as worst case scenario.

My vote stands, but I will use the weekend to ponder over the latest discussion.

[SeraphicMirth]

On my first read of the recent posts I feel like neither Khel or Muerrto are scum. Muerrto's 238 makes total sense to me and matches up. Khel's 234 explanations seem to match up with his actions (however, one thing that makes me hesitate is his inclusion of Nelly on his scum list now.. I don't know what I think about that). So, I don't know now. Sadly, I often see how peoplecould be town rather than how they could be scum... :-/ I'm trying to improve on this.

I still really think that VH is suspicious..on top of what I said in my previous post, I was re-reading a little and they seemed almost too concious/nervous(?) about their vote count on page 1 and 2 during random vote stage. it's random vote stage..come on.


Also - it seems that d_o, muerrto and khel are the main ones coming up at the moment for hanging candidates. Is there some sort of odds to figure out the chance of them all being town or all being scum or..? Is it bad to go off of that? I guess it would be cuz odds are just odds. eh I dunno.

I am going to be gone Friday late afternoon until Sunday night (Pacific Time). I'm REALLY sorry about this!!! I'll read everything that happens in that time as soon as I get back, and hopefully have something to contribute on all that

[somestrangeflea]

If DO can give me a decent defense WITHOUT attacking someone I may remove my vote.

Remember DO, unless you're scum you don't know Khev's role.

Just because he's attacking you doesn't mean he's scum.

Sort of agreeing with Khelv here. If D_O comes up scum, Muerrto will come under heavy scrutiny tomorrow.

1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?

Loaded question. Kthxbye.

FoS: Nelly

[VampanezeHunter]

Vampaneze Hunter
First thing that stood out in my mind with him was his first vote for Hjallti, he claimed that this was simply a random vote but for me I found it hard that he could just pull a random name out of the list and it turned out to be a person who voted for him. So this struck me as a lie and kind of scummy, he also started to push some heat on Kheluaster which struck me as odd. Another thing that really has no basis in my mind besides my gut feeling was his post #150, in this post I believe he simply came back to the game after a while away and simply made a small comment in his statement which was agreeing with Plessiez about finding more info on Omens other Mafia members before he was lynched incase he did turn out to be Mafia. While this is a sounds ideal I got a weird feeling about how he agreed but nothing major.

I would like to pose a few questions toward Vampaneze Hunter and please once again correct me If I am wrong with any of these comments because I went through the thread in about a hour and a half…

1)Do you still stand by your comment that your first vote was completely random or would you like to say that it was based on him voting for you?

2) If I am not mistaken you pushed slightly for Kheluster in the early stages of the game. If this is correct and now you have a FOS on him why haven’t you cast your vote for him to apply some pressure?

3) Since you agree that we should find out some more info about Mafia before we quick lynch and assuming that Omen is Mafia, who would you suspect as other Mafia members?

Answers

1)Ok, ok I admit that it was partly to do with OMGUS but it was mostly to do with random vote+ a random reason!

2)Yea I did apply pressure but when I looked at this game I thought that Khelv was a townie using his best technique he knows of in this game but I think he has got it wrong.

3)Well here is my LoS:
A)Nelly-Think he is trying to throw suspicion around!
B)Vampddg- I think he is scum who is sitting back a watching the game
C)SM- Gut feeling.

[vampyrusddg]

first off all, welcome to the game Nelly

Secondly sorry to everyone else, RLs been hitting me hard, so to relieve some stress I had a huge go at my new boss and told him exactly what I thought of him.

So now I have more free time on my hands, and am back to temporary work for the next month before I move I'll be working on full PBP later on

Vampyrysddg

Honestly the one player in this game who strikes me as townie, the reasoning behind that being that he has flip flopped on his votes so many times that this would be a clear way to draw attention to yourself which is something Mafia does not like to do. His first vote for Muerrto was casted after Plessiez cast his first vote for Muerrto, his second vote for Vampaneze hunter was a bandwagon vote. His votes there after were for Hjallti, Malchonn & Death Omen. I noticed that he never cast a vote for someone who hadn’t already had a vote on them. My thoughts on that were simply, this is either a brilliant strategy by a Mafia member or a indecisive strategy by a townie, my opinion lying towards the latter obviously.

1)Each time you changed your vote were you truly convinced at that moment that the person you were changing your vote for was scum or was it simply a way to apply pressure?

I havn't been sure about anyone I've voted so far, I do really enjoy my random stages, a lot of good comes out of them, the scum feel relaxed and think they can do almost anything, and later this normaly comes back to haunt hem, pulling order out of chaos is my speciality Applying pressure is subjective, if the person feels their under pressure then their more likely to make a slip, however a few choice words nomaly achieves a lot more than a vote without a reason, and is more likely to get the scum jumping - i.e.

Massive FoS: Nelly

You are sounding entirely too sympathetic towards Death_Omen. I can understand if maybe you aren't totally convinced he is scum. Not having any suspicion, however, just strikes me as strange.

just for your initial impressions post #231, for playing devil's advocate a little and poining a finger a khelvaster, though no vote or FOS, your srongest comment was this I believe

I am not casting my vote as of yet because I want to see how things progress now that I am active but I will say that if I had to cast right now it would be Kheluster…

now that strikes me as very scummy, over the top OMGUS and goes on to include you in a conspiracy based on 4 or 5 posts from 2 different players...

unvote:DO, Vote:Khelvaster

Sorry if I got a bit side tracked there

2) If a person became -1 would you be willing to hammer that person and end day one?

I'm always willing to do the dirty work if nescecary, although I would never speed hammer someone, no matter how sure I am of them being scum. Always give them a last chance to dop a team mate in it by trying to distance themselves fom he rest of the goons before they go.

3) In other Mafia games do you flip flop as much or is it just this game in particular?

Flip flopping is a bit of a strong term in this case, all were random or jokes except for the DO vote

[DeathSauce]

Welcome to the game, replacers!

After carefully reviewing the thread, I feel I have to put my vote on Muerrto once again. He is very good at explaining oddities people find in his posts as part of his playstyle, but the accumulation of oddities is just too much for me.

vote: Muerrto

[Khelvaster]

I don't want to start a massive argument that will get everyone lost, so I will just respond to Hjallti:

You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir,

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

You didn't answer his remark but went around it. If you are sure he is scum, you can't consider the possibility he is not, so you are not sure, and shouldn't have claimed to be sure in the first place. Saying you are sure is leaving out the rest as worst case scenario.

You all weren't convinced I was sure, so the worst-case scenario was a preemtive counter to someone who would say I should think about what could happen if I were wrong.

[Nelly632]

Hjallti wrote

You didn't answer his remark but went around it. If you are sure he is scum, you can't consider the possibility he is not, so you are not sure, and shouldn't have claimed to be sure in the first place. Saying you are sure is leaving out the rest as worst case scenario.

Thank you...

SeraphicMirth Wrote

(however, one thing that makes me hesitate is his inclusion of Nelly on his scum list now.. I don't know what I think about that).

Actually I was suspecting that the majority of the times when you toss out suspision toward somebody they will toss it back toward you which can be interpeted as...

1) A Townie who actually thinks you are scum because you are pushing for him so hard. (This works both ways for K & DO.

2) Scum trying to lash back at you for hitting to close to home...

But honestly this comment did not bother me it was his comment about being willing to Hammer either Muerrto, D.O or myself if the time come... I would have trusted him more if he would have stuck to his guns on the D.O regardless if I agree with them.

Flea Wrote

Loaded question. Kthxbye.

While it might appear to be a loaded question I did revise the question "But what I am saying is are you so sure that he is SCUM that you would put your DAY TWO life on it?"... If this is still loaded in peoples eyes then I will drop the issue...

Vamphunter Wrote

Answers

1)Ok, ok I admit that it was partly to do with OMGUS but it was mostly to do with random vote+ a random reason!

2)Yea I did apply pressure but when I looked at this game I thought that Khelv was a townie using his best technique he knows of in this game but I think he has got it wrong.

3)Well here is my LoS:
A)Nelly-Think he is trying to throw suspicion around!
B)Vampddg- I think he is scum who is sitting back a watching the game
C)SM- Gut feeling.

Good answers and thank you Hunter... And by all mean you can cast LOS on me I am more then willing to be cast in the light... JUST BE CAREFULL I MIGHT JUST CRACK!!!! (Screams)

Vampy Wrote

I'm always willing to do the dirty work if nescecary, although I would never speed hammer someone, no matter how sure I am of them being scum. Always give them a last chance to dop a team mate in it by trying to distance themselves fom he rest of the goons before they go.

Good answer... By the way I got the impression that it was scummy in your eyes for me to go on a big rant about Khelv and not vote for him.. If that was the case I can actually say that I was kind of fearful that voting for him right off the back without letting him say some things that might change my mind would be considered scummy. Either way I am casting my vote in this post...

Vote: Khelvaster

[VampanezeHunter]

ok...This may be my last post for a week. Just to let you know all of the people on my LoS are all on the same level of who I think is scum. Just because Nelly is at A doesn't mean that I think he is the most scummiest person! Sorry for the confusion! Anyway goodbye(if this is my last for a week) and see you next week! Enjoy play while I enjoy sun and beaches etc. *Waves to everyone*