Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[hewitt]

Um, actually no. If there was an AT wagon right now based on the same reasons I would definitely not support it. people getting lynched over ridiculously small things is something I try to avoid.

[Khamisa]

ODDin:

Oh yeah, I have claimed to be scum 3 or 4 times I believe now. I won't claim scum if I don't get pissed at the stupidity of people. So far, I see no stupidity. But we're only 4 pages in.

He will claim scum. That's always a bad move that just makes players more angry at him and doesn't contribute to the scumhunting operation.

Also because some people I hate so much in this game, that I wanted to ensure their loss, mafia or not.

You are supposed to be playing this game to win, not to try to force others you don't like to lose.

I've never played with 13 players, but I would definitely assume that there are 3, because assuming there are 2 may result in bad judgment.

He doesn't know the setup when this is an "Open Game" in which you have to sign up in the "Open Game Queue". Sounds slightly ignorant to me.

And Pitstop looks like he's active lurking, which is definitely not a good thing.

[OccamR]

You may say so now, but you might not have if there was an AT wagon right now. And yes they were superficial and terrible, but again I've seen people get lynched over ridiculously small things.

And exactly how successful were those lynches?

[Zer0ph34r]

Khamisa, I do play to win when I enter, but some people, not that I will say any names [ZWET], piss me off to the point where winning is not priority one. It's more like 2. Ignorant, ha! *Inhales cig* I don't even know what ignorant is.

[Zer0ph34r]

And btw, do you want me to claim scum, because you seem to want me to with the assured thought that I will.

[AndyTony]

@Ceph

I might have misread - - but did you vote Pitstop for having the same opinion of me as you had? And you only changed it because things seemed to turn his way?

It seems hypocritical and opportunistic - but it's late - - if I misread, someone correct me if I'm wrong

No. I have not thought at any point in this game that you are scum, maybe it appears that I did but that's not the case.

It seemed like the case to me because you identified me primarily as an "Easy D1 lynch" - I'm still trying to read through to see if it was an opinion - - or an observation

[AndyTony]

And btw, do you want me to claim scum, because you seem to want me to with the assured thought that I will.

Watch out for using that as a line of defense - "Don't scum hunt in my direction or else" - you don't know his motivation/if that's what he wants from you, and he was hardly trying to get a rise out of you

[Cephrir]

You may say so now, but you might not have if there was an AT wagon right now. And yes they were superficial and terrible, but again I've seen people get lynched over ridiculously small things.

And exactly how successful were those lynches?

If you mean "were they on scum?" then not very.

Andy: Opinion or observation? Wouldn't those be effectively the same thing? I just meant that I could see you getting lynched, not that I supported it.

[Zer0ph34r]

AndyTony, that is the prime example of idiots trying to find some kind of evidence on me, scum hunt me all you want, I never said don't. In fact, I never said don't do anything [although I implied don't be stupid]. Just like the others, finding the slightest thing you can find to point at me and say I'm scum.

[ODDin]

Ooh, development. Will read more thoroughly Friday, I hope.
But in the meantime - Khamisa, I thought we've been over that already. It's been chewed on from pretty much any possible direction, I don't really see any point in going back to this - other than you wanting to appear active without actually saying anything useful about what matters at the moment (Pitstop / Cephrir / The Corporation). And no, the lame excuse of saying something against Pitstop in the end of the post doesn't count.
Not to mention that "He will claim scum" sounds like a horribly forced and lame attempt to lynch Zer0.

[yawetag]

Deadline:

June 7, 2009 at 11:59pm Central Time

Votes Needed for Lynch:

7

Current Vote Count

Current as of

Post #235

Pitstop

- 3 (dejkha, ODDin, Cephrir)

Zer0ph34r

- 2 (MadCrawdad, The Corporation)

Cephrir

- 1 (OccamR)

dejkha

- 1 (hohum)

The Corporation

- 1 (Zer0ph34r)

Not Voting:

AndyTony, hewitt, Kdub, Khamisa, Pitstop

[OccamR]

Whoops, I still haven't unvoted from the RVS.

Unvote

[Zer0ph34r]

unvote

[hewitt]

And btw, do you want me to claim scum, because you seem to want me to with the assured thought that I will.

Yeah seriously it's almost like people are pushing for you to claim scum.

[The Corporation]

Dude, quickly following up ODDin with:

I agree with Odd. AT was starting to look like an easy D1 lynch target IMO and I think Pitstop was trying to push the potential wagon there. Good catch. This could be you chainsaw defending AT but there was that little jab thrown in at him at the end. And I don't think AT is scum anyway. Definitely the most solid thing I've seen.

Unvote
Vote: Pitstop

is twenty times closer to "pushing a potential wagon" than anything Pitstop did. The difference between not even voting for someone and being the third man in for example. If you are going to ping Pitstop for "pushing a potential wagon" you should have no problems with me doing the same to you.

Voting is visible. Pushing a wagon and being on it are not the same thing, Pitstop was supporting the wagon idea without actually putting anything concrete on it that could be traced back to him. Last sentence makes zero sense. Also, why the hell is everyone all over me about this vote and not ODDin?

Posting is visable too, people read they even *gasp* reread. This would have been picked up no doubt and easily traced back to him - it was hardly made in invisible ink. ODDin had already underlined it with his post, it hardly needed yo jumping on board if it was just a case of making sure it went by unnoticed.

I'm all over you because I'm more interested in you quickly following up ODDin with a pat on the back ("Nice catch!") when it really wasn't much of anything.

Also the tone of your response is one more of discrediting me to the town rather than defending yourself against very valid questioning.

Very valid questioning? You didn't even ask me any questions! That was an outright attack, how do you expect me to respond? Would you prefer I not try to disprove your attack? Oh right you would, because you want to lynch me.[/quote]

I would prefer you try to disporve my attack or at least offer up a few reasons as to why you wouldn't be scum or try a few things to find some.

And you are right I am trying to lynch you because I believe you to be scum - very perceptive.

Painting me as someone as a newbie with tunnel vision works two ways with you as me probing you further will strengthen your claim and it also gives you another half-target to pull out of the draw should you want one.

I am not painting anything. You

are

a newbie with tunnelvision. And yet again with the Cephrir-is-scum-so-here's-why crap.[/quote]

You are the one pushing that narrative. I'm looking for evidence to prove/disprove a suspicion. At the moment you are struggling to pull out anything that would go into the disprove pile.

And yes I have played scum before and don't really go around pushing wagons I can't get over the line. If you go around doing that too much you tend to out yourself very quickly.

If I'm scum there, I am definitely not thinking what you say I must be. Remotely decent scum are thinking about far more than who they can get lynched, it's not even a priority. If you've played scum you've been doing a godawful job of it.

Let's leave the analysis of each others scum playing abilities until the end of the game aye? If it does turn out you are scum it speaks a lot to your abilities that you were so comprehensively outed in a "newbie's" mind by page 10.

[Cephrir]

Dude, quickly following up ODDin with:

I agree with Odd. AT was starting to look like an easy D1 lynch target IMO and I think Pitstop was trying to push the potential wagon there. Good catch. This could be you chainsaw defending AT but there was that little jab thrown in at him at the end. And I don't think AT is scum anyway. Definitely the most solid thing I've seen.

Unvote
Vote: Pitstop

is twenty times closer to "pushing a potential wagon" than anything Pitstop did. The difference between not even voting for someone and being the third man in for example. If you are going to ping Pitstop for "pushing a potential wagon" you should have no problems with me doing the same to you.

Voting is visible. Pushing a wagon and being on it are not the same thing, Pitstop was supporting the wagon idea without actually putting anything concrete on it that could be traced back to him. Last sentence makes zero sense. Also, why the hell is everyone all over me about this vote and not ODDin?

Posting is visable too, people read they even *gasp* reread. This would have been picked up no doubt and easily traced back to him - it was hardly made in invisible ink. ODDin had already underlined it with his post, it hardly needed yo jumping on board if it was just a case of making sure it went by unnoticed.

It's not, I'm voting for Pitstop because he's scum.

I'm all over you because I'm more interested in you quickly following up ODDin with a pat on the back ("Nice catch!") when it really wasn't much of anything.

Funny, that's the first time you've mentioned that. And that's a load of crap, I'm just agreeing with him... you might as well say any two people voting for the same player must be scum together.

Also the tone of your response is one more of discrediting me to the town rather than defending yourself against very valid questioning.

Very valid questioning? You didn't even ask me any questions! That was an outright attack, how do you expect me to respond? Would you prefer I not try to disprove your attack? Oh right you would, because you want to lynch me.

I would prefer you try to disporve my attack or at least offer up a few reasons as to why you wouldn't be scum or try a few things to find some.

I DID, READ WHAT I AM TYPING PLEASE KTHX

And you are right I am trying to lynch you because I believe you to be scum - very perceptive.

God I am so sick of your snarky attitude. Obviously I was referring to the fact that you seem to expect me to just give up, and you're supposedly finding me suspicious-er for what basically amounts to defending myself from a post full of crap.

Painting me as someone as a newbie with tunnel vision works two ways with you as me probing you further will strengthen your claim and it also gives you another half-target to pull out of the draw should you want one.

I am not painting anything. You

are

a newbie with tunnelvision. And yet again with the Cephrir-is-scum-so-here's-why crap.

You are the one pushing that narrative. I'm looking for evidence to prove/disprove a suspicion. At the moment you are struggling to pull out anything that would go into the disprove pile.

Get over yourself.

And yes I have played scum before and don't really go around pushing wagons I can't get over the line. If you go around doing that too much you tend to out yourself very quickly.

If I'm scum there, I am definitely not thinking what you say I must be. Remotely decent scum are thinking about far more than who they can get lynched, it's not even a priority. If you've played scum you've been doing a godawful job of it.

Let's leave the analysis of each others scum playing abilities until the end of the game aye? If it does turn out you are scum it speaks a lot to your abilities that you were so comprehensively outed in a "newbie's" mind by page 10.

And given that I'm not, it speaks a lot to your abilities that you're keeping up this stupid argument and will probably continue to do so no matter what I say until one of us dies.

[dejkha]

I've mostly been skimming, but I'll try to make a post in the next day. I will say though, of what I've read of it, I'm liking Corp's case on Cephir.

[MadCrawdad]

Cephrir, who was making particularly compelling arguments that you feel could have led to AT being an easy D1 lynch?

IMO, no one. I guess I wasn't giving everyone else enough credit and assumed everyone was a sheep. At the other site where I play, everyone is a sheep, so y'know. Carries over.

Ceph, it has nothing to do with what you assumed about everyone else. You said that at first, some folks were making compelling arguments against AT that could have made him an easy lynch target. Kind of says to me that you were claiming someone was saying some good stuff...at least enough to make YOU (not your assumed sheep) think that AT could be scum. Maybe not good enough stuff for you to want to lynch him, but apparently good nonetheless. So who was saying ANY good stuff that had you thinking AT could become an easy lynch candidate?

Did you think that any of those 'loudly disagreeing' with AT were making particularly compelling arguments?

At first, yes. I don't think I would have actually lynched him at that point and maybe the rest of us mostly feel the same way, but the arguments wouldn't have to be that great if they were the only ones... D1 lynches are often subpar and there comes a point after which people tend to accept anything remotely reasonable.

unvote

[Kdub]

Let's leave the analysis of each others scum playing abilities until the end of the game aye? If it does turn out you are scum it speaks a lot to your abilities that you were so comprehensively outed in a "newbie's" mind by page 10.

You seem pretty sure of yourself here. I think your case against Cephir is logical and is one of the best leads we have at the moment, but it's far from a sure bet. I'm not getting a good vibe from your level of confidence, but perhaps that will change as the discussion moves further along.

Also, where has Pitstop been? He was at the root of Cephir's argument, now it seems like he is sitting back and watching the fireworks after Corp started going after Cephir.

[Zer0ph34r]

Hewitt: I know. In this game, scum or not, people want to find a reason to lynch someone else just so they can stay in the game.

[Khamisa]

Khamisa, I do play to win when I enter, but some people, not that I will say any names [ZWET], piss me off to the point where winning is not priority one. It's more like 2. Ignorant, ha! *Inhales cig* I don't even know what ignorant is.

Well, I guess I just don't let my emotions into gameplay. And your "ignorant" statement doesn't make sense.

And btw, do you want me to claim scum, because you seem to want me to with the assured thought that I will.

No, because it's not correct play in any light.

Not to mention that "He will claim scum" sounds like a horribly forced and lame attempt to lynch Zer0.

That was poorly worded, I meant like in past games he has claimed scum and it's something he may possibly do. I didn't mean it as a certain action.

[Cephrir]

[quote=MadCrawdad"]Ceph, it has nothing to do with what you assumed about everyone else. You said that at first, some folks were making compelling arguments against AT that could have made him an easy lynch target. Kind of says to me that you were claiming someone was saying some good stuff...at least enough to make YOU (not your assumed sheep) think that AT could be scum. Maybe not good enough stuff for you to want to lynch him, but apparently good nonetheless. So who was saying ANY good stuff that had you thinking AT could become an easy lynch candidate? [/quote]
Like I said. Never thought T was scum. In fact I'm quite certain he isn't.

@Everyone agreeing with a case that doesn't exist: WTF is wrong with you.

...And then what Ceph predicted would happen to AT happened to him. The irony is overwhelming.

[MadCrawdad]

Ceph, it has nothing to do with what you assumed about everyone else. You said that at first, some folks were making compelling arguments against AT that could have made him an easy lynch target. Kind of says to me that you were claiming someone was saying some good stuff...at least enough to make YOU (not your assumed sheep) think that AT could be scum. Maybe not good enough stuff for you to want to lynch him, but apparently good nonetheless. So who was saying ANY good stuff that had you thinking AT could become an easy lynch candidate?

Like I said. Never thought T was scum. In fact I'm quite certain he isn't.

Well then, who was making an argument that the sheep were likely to follow?

[MadCrawdad]

ABWOP:

@Ceph

Did you think that any of those 'loudly disagreeing' with AT were making particularly compelling arguments?

At first, yes. I don't think I would have actually lynched him at that point

and maybe the rest of us mostly feel the same way, but the arguments wouldn't have to be that great if they were the only ones... D1 lynches are often subpar and there comes a point after which people tend to accept anything remotely reasonable.

Ceph, for NEVER having thought AT was scum, can you please clarify what you meant in an earlier post? Note the highlighted portion... you don't sound as sure of yourself there.

[Cephrir]

You really like asking questions, don't you? =P

Okay, to be fair, there was a point at which I wasn't as certain as I am now. Nothing actually changed... I don't really want to finish explaining for reasons I don't want to discuss yet.