Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[MrBuddyLee]

Yeah, definitely. I'm actually not close to voting--Glork just makes my blood boil and sometimes I need to step away from the keyboard and remember he can also be a complete doodyhead as town.

Neither of these guys looks like town to me right now, and I'm not in the habit of settling for an educated guess. My record in newbie games as town is something like 8-1, and it's primarily because I drag days out forever and force people to post until scum makes a mistake. I keep getting frustrated and wanting to slap a vote down on Glork, like I did D4 when he pulled his "MBL U MUST UNVOTE CES AND VOTE MEshift+1 YOU OR I SHALL DIE PISTOLS AT HIGH NOON" malarkey. But I'm not gonna vote til I can tell the difference between these two. And right now Glork looks like manipulative scum and Patrick looks like coasting, avoidant scum.

[Patrick]

MBL, with your team analysis done, has it raised any more Patrick-suspicions with you? Lack of interest in CDB and CES, voting me for something he did himself most of the game...

Your win condition, I take it, is to get me to tear all my hair out. Now to the real stuff:

With all due respect, Patrick, your first real "suspicions" each day have been IH, Mgm, Zindaras Nightfall, and now me. 0-for-5. You were late to express suspicion of CDB and CES. Adele's investigation of Mgm appears to be the only reason you haven't lynched him already today. If you're not scum, you might consider doing town a favor and brushing up your scumhunting, because it hasn't helped us much this game.

We've done the whole performance review thing already. And fun as it undoubtedly is to bash my accuracy this game, it isn't very helpful. I'd rather call it 0 for 4 right now of course.

Your questions counter is, as I suspected, misleading. Note that I ask questions when I want to know the answers, and not to fill curiosity quotas.

My post 243, I asked the same question Ether asked you ages ago, which you didn't answer at the time.

In post 267 I made the following comment:

I find it curious that throughout much of the game you've been saying, "Patrick is getting angry that's very townish", yet you're only now bothering to check to see if it actually means anything at all.

Granted it's not phrased as a question, but I thought it invited you to say something on the matter. So I'll rephrase it as a question: You apparently have a meta on me saying if I get pissed off I'm more likely to be town, and it's contributed a signficant part to your opinion on me throughout the game. Why, then, did you only choose to read my scumgames at the point after Mgm voted for me?

Same post:

Thesp and Glork, look to me like the people who actually "busted" CDB, the only known scum at the time. Who else are you saying should have been on that list?

This, in my book at least, is a question.

Post 281:

I see the topic of WIFOM cropping up one or two times, so MBL, question for you: Mgm thinks that the Thesp nightkill makes it unlikely you're scum, and gives a load of WIFOM reasoning. Do you actually think that the Thesp nightkill should make you less of a suspect today? If so, why? I think you might have touched on it today but I'd like to see your reply here.

I believe this is a question.

Overall, perhaps not the most accurate counting of number of questions asked. I'm actually fairly sure I've asked Glork more than one question, and I'll likely check that later if necessary.

And right now Glork looks like manipulative scum and Patrick looks like coasting, avoidant scum.

The adjectives I would currently use for you are manipulative and hedging scum.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Patrick: 1 (Mgm)
MrBuddyLee : 1 (Glork)

Not voting: MrBuddyLee Patrick

4 alive means

3

to lynch!

[MrBuddyLee]

Patrick, the one thing you have going for you in my book is tone. I've seen you as town and you sounded different as town than you did in your scum games. This game, you come across more like you have as town. That's big in my book.

As far as you labeling me manipulative, I think I'm the only person not trying to tell Mgm what to do. I'm trying to get you and Glork to do ANYTHING that can help me tell the two of you apart, but so far you're like Mutt and Jeff today, both spending way more time making cases for your township than anything, with the dregs of your time spent poking at me and ignoring each other.

I've only been lynched as town once before, and it was by Glork, in a game (LO2) where I was unable to contribute for the first two weeks. You found me scum all day in that game and changed your mind just before I got lynched. I don't intend to ever get lynched as town again but at this point that's up to one of you/Glork... again.

[Mgm]

Your questions counter is, as I suspected, misleading. Note that I ask questions when I want to know the answers, and not to fill curiosity quotas.

That still leaves a valid question as to why you showed hardly any interest in the now-dead scum. If it wasn't to fill curiosity quotes, then why didn't you want answers regarding them?

[Patrick]

Patrick, the one thing you have going for you in my book is tone. I've seen you as town and you sounded different as town than you did in your scum games. This game, you come across more like you have as town. That's big in my book.

I know. The question I'm asking is why you waited until Mgm voted me to actually check my games as scum.

As far as you labeling me manipulative, I think I'm the only person not trying to tell Mgm what to do. I'm trying to get you and Glork to do ANYTHING that can help me tell the two of you apart, but so far you're like Mutt and Jeff today, both spending way more time making cases for your township than anything, with the dregs of your time spent poking at me and ignoring each other.

Mgm, unfortunately, commands a vote like anyone else, and we can't lynch scum without him. He's currently voting me and his reasons are less than stellar. I'm not just talking about the pure WIFOM of last night's kill, he's brought up a whole bunch of other things that make no sense, and I have to shoot those down. There are valid points against me, as with anyone else, but most of Mgm's stuff against me is garbage. I think correcting that is fairly high priority.

[Patrick]

That still leaves a valid question as to why you showed hardly any interest in the now-dead scum. If it wasn't to fill curiosity quotes, then why didn't you want answers regarding them?

The question of my play around dead scum has already been answered a couple of times when Glork then MBL asked me. Here I'm talking about MBL miscounting the number of questions I've asked today.

[Mr Stoofer]

Deadline:

Tuesday 31st July 2007 at 9am BST.

...

[Mr Stoofer]

Not really.

But your positions do seem to be somewhat entrenched. Is there any chance of a lynch today, or is the only way this day is going to end with a deadline? Feel free to PM me your thoughts if you prefer to keep them out of the thread.

[MrBuddyLee]

I know. The question I'm asking is why you waited until Mgm voted me to actually check my games as scum.

I spent like a half an hour one day going through "All Posts by Patrick" from your profile, and didn't find you as scum and got distracted. I probably saw a shiny ball of foil on the ground or something.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mgm's currently voting me and his reasons are less than stellar. I'm not just talking about the pure WIFOM of last night's kill, he's brought up a whole bunch of other things that make no sense, and I have to shoot those down. There are valid points against me, as with anyone else, but most of Mgm's stuff against me is garbage.

Hmm, interesting theory, let's see where this leads.

vote: Mgm

[Glork]

....huh?

[Glork]

Glork, why have you been on the leading bandwagon each and every day of the game?

That's pretty much how I do thinks. Need I link to other games?

One or two would be nice. Are there any games where it didn't happen?

In Lights Out Mafia, I was on every single lynch of the day, as well as every near-lynch bandwagon. I was town.
In Smalltown 2: Scrubs Mafia, I was on every lynch. I was once again town.
I was on every lynch in Space Monkey Mafia. I was scum.
In Covert Ops Mafia, I was on every lynch from D3 (when I replaced into the game) until I died. I was town.
In Cultural Revolution Mafia, I was on every single lynch from D1-D5, until I was killed N5. I was town.
In Lights Out 2, I was on every lynch until I was lynched myself. I was town.
I was on every lynch in Committee Mafia until I was nightkilled. I was scum.
In Stark's Higher Maths Mafia[/url], I was on all three lynches of the game (and I would have been on the last lynch of the last scum had the game not been abandoned). I was town.
Mafia 51: No Use For A Title, I was on every lynch. Protown.



Really, my behavior towards lynching is somewhat similar to Fritzler's. Unless I A) see a compelling reason to believe the lynchee is definitely not scum; or B) see a compelling reason to be sure that there is scum elsewhere, I'm usually helping to attain a lynch -- even if it's just for the sake of avoiding a no-lynch situation. There are, however, definitely times when I show a clear preference to staying off-lynch or off-wagon. Some examples of those games are below:
In Caddyshack Mafia, I pointedly avoided the D1 mislynch. I was scum.
In Norse Myth Mafia, I was off of one lynch, though I honestly can't remember if I would have joined it or not -- CES hammered prematurely on that day. However, I had made it a point to avoid dropping a Lynch-1 or hammer vote, because there were things I wanted discussed. Anywho, I was town.
In Mini 358, I was against a lynch which ultimately occurred on the
There are a couple of currently-running games where I have been off-wagon of the lynch of the day. Obviously, I can't say anything about my alignment in those games, but obviously that's further indication that I will stay off of a wagon if I feel the need to.
In Mafia 60: SpeedyKQ's Big NY Game, I was off-lynch D1 and D6. I was scum.
(I'm honestly having trouble finding more non-newbie examples where I stayed off-lynch. Like I said, that's just how I roll.)

[Glork]

EBWOP: Egads! In Space Monkey, I was off-lynch D1, preferring an MBL lynch over a birdlynch.



...I'm sensing a trend in my own play that I hadn't noticed before. I will have to obfuscate this behavior in the future.

[Mgm]

Thanks. I'll do a spot check to make sure you're not telling fibs, but that's a good enough answer to assume your behavior with regard to top lynch candidates is your play style and not something scummy.

[Mgm]

I've PMed the mod with my view, I suggest the rest of you do the same.

Mgm's currently voting me and his reasons are less than stellar. I'm not just talking about the pure WIFOM of last night's kill, he's brought up a whole bunch of other things that make no sense, and I have to shoot those down. There are valid points against me, as with anyone else, but most of Mgm's stuff against me is garbage.

Hmm, interesting theory, let's see where this leads.

vote: Mgm

To sure and certain doom.

FOS: MBL

[Mr Stoofer]

Since the question may come up, I'll tell you now that I have added the following to the rules post:

• The Mafia must attempt to kill someone every night.

[MrBuddyLee]

unvote

[Glork]

Explain yourself, MBL?

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Patrick: 1 (Mgm)
MrBuddyLee : 1 (Glork)

Not voting: Patrick MrBuddyLee

4 alive means

3

to lynch!

Taking into account the state of the game, the effect of a no-lynch (were it to happen), the apparently entrenched positions, and the views expressed to me privately, I think that a deadline is appropriate. I'll consider further representations from the players, but for now...

Deadline:

10am BST Wednesday 8th August

[Mgm]

Unvote

[MrBuddyLee]

If I had to vote right now it'd be on Glork. I told Stoofer my vote is still in flux and I did not request a deadline. I guess based on what you guys told him, your votes aren't likely to change, otherwise I doubt Stoof would have given us a deadline. Is that correct?

Mgm, can you go into detail on why you're so convinced by the Fritzler thing? I'm not seeing it.

[Patrick]

I didn't tell him anything. So, MBL, mind explaining your little stunt?

[Mgm]

I didn't tell him anything. So, MBL, mind explaining your little stunt?

Yeah, I'm dying to hear your explanation.

[MrBuddyLee]

Nice to see you haven't lost your senses of humor.