Open 525: C9++ (Game Over)

[Wake1]

Well, NOW I'm attacking your character because you can't control your emotions and follow site rules while expecting to be praised for your actions.

So...there's that.

I'm not arguing it wasn't wrong to break forum rules from forum standpoint, but don't pretend what you did wasn't wrong, either Matias, or that I had zero reason to be pissed with your unable-to-be-responded-to attacks.

[KingdomAces]

Okay, I still am really not in the mood to make a full thoughts post, but here's a sneak preview. The thing that I liked least about modding wasn't actually finding replacements, despite how much I complained about it in the QT's. It's dealing with all of the rulebreaking. I really don't want to report people and I try to just give warnings so they don't do it again, but this game is showing that that's not enough.

Please, can you please stop arguing so I don't have to just lock the thread.

Wake, don't break site rules. Ever. Fakeclaims are risk vs. reward, and almost always risks are far too large. This setup especially is really bad for fakecaims in the first place since town

will

find out that you are lying at some point, and if you don't retract the claim before then, then you will be autolynched. That's not even mentioning the fact that you could draw counterclaims or change actual town PR actions to something sub-optimal. Even such, I still would just leave it at "it's a bad idea, so please don't do it again" if you hadn't broken as many rules as you did and the fact that you don't realize that's a bad thing even after you were given a ban for it. That is really just unacceptable.

Matias, that doesn't give you free reign to insult him.You are definitely taking this too far. I really should have said something back then, but I didn't want to break game integrity even further than it already was. Personal insults never get you anywhere, and if anything invalidate your points rather than stressing them.


For those interested, the argument was still going on when I started writing this, I'm that slow at picking the exact words I want to use, and now I'm so tired that I can't even grammar anymore, so that pretty much got wasted anyway. Even though it appears to be over now, I still think I should say something about this in case it gets started again. This is also not an invitation to start again. Any further posts on the topic will be deleted, and I will take administrative action even though I hate doing so.

And that paragraph just added another ten minutes. Whatever, just posting this and walking away for now.

[Wake1]

Wake, don't break site rules. Ever. Fakeclaims are risk vs. reward, and almost always risks are far too large. This setup especially is really bad for fakecaims in the first place since town

will

find out that you are lying at some point, and if you don't retract the claim before then, then you will be autolynched. That's not even mentioning the fact that you could draw counterclaims or change actual town PR actions to something sub-optimal. Even such, I still would just leave it at "it's a bad idea, so please don't do it again" if you hadn't broken as many rules as you did and the fact that you don't realize that's a bad thing even after you were given a ban for it. That is really just unacceptable.

See, this had no insults in it and had general respect. So, I'm a

hell of a lot more willing and open

to listen and agree with the points set forth in it.

[Wake1]

And I do agree with it, because it's not vitriolic in the slightest.

[Wake1]

Yeah, I need to stop using personal insults in my frustration. Honey over vinegar and all.

[Matias]

Matias, that doesn't give you free reign to insult him.You are definitely taking this too far. I really should have said something back then, but I didn't want to break game integrity even further than it already was. Personal insults never get you anywhere, and if anything invalidate your points rather than stressing them.

Gotchya. I come from a site meta where calling people stupid happens, and kind of often, but I understand some people are less accustomed to it than others

I guess I'll just say that Wake's play this game was bad, ban him from my modded games, WotC him when I can and avoid playing with him without using insults and call it a day.

[YellowKingValley]

oh yeah, that reminds me, it shoulda been super-obvious to anyone paying attention that wake coming in and going, "sup matias, i'll explain why i fake-claimed postgame" made matias town.

lol

He also made a discussion thread to ask for opinions about fakeclaiming.

[Matias]

oh yeah, that reminds me, it shoulda been super-obvious to anyone paying attention that wake coming in and going, "sup matias, i'll explain why i fake-claimed postgame" made matias town.

lol

He also made a discussion thread to ask for opinions about fakeclaiming.

seriously.

[YellowKingValley]

The only advantage from Wake88's fake hardclaiming gambit is to act as NK fodder. Such gambits is absolutely useless in small-medium setups, where mass claims are going to happen around D3. Thus, unlikely to have enough time to get yourself NKed in 2 days. Only serve to confuse/mislead town. So the play is retarded. Such gambits are better used in (1) larger setups where mass-claiming is further away, say at least 3 or more days away, or (2) where KPN is higher, thus more likely to die before mass-claiming.

As for site meta... well if they don't like it...

[YellowKingValley]

I saw it after finding Wake88 missing for a few days (to check if he is posting somewhere but not in-game, suggesting active lurking). Might be before Yraelz's replacing in.

When I read it, I suppose most of the actual info in OP has been removed. Only saw comments complaining and criticizing him for out-of-game discussion. I assumed he was punished because there were talks of banning and stuff.

[Matias]

Checked the ban thread. He was, for two weeks (before he was banned for speaking when replaced out)

[YellowKingValley]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31172

I suppose...

[YellowKingValley]

I thought it was about fakeclaiming... this thread showed replacing out... whatever. Bad memory.

[Matias]

Yeah.

So, basically, no regard for any of the rules, and breaking them for the first time should 100% merit a warning first in his eyes. No thanks.

[zMuffinMan]

no he made one about fake-claiming. it was most likely deleted. i think he also received some form of punishment for it. i remember seeing him complain about site administration making assumptions that he was referring to an ongoing game (lol lol lol)

[zMuffinMan]

o wait yeah it says in that link it was deleted

[zMuffinMan]

never mind me

[Guyett]

Woo my first mafia win and first win in X-Lo

I see Wake was being an idiot again in this game... doesn;t surprise me.
@Wake when will you learn that your little gambits are extremely selfish and usually end up screwing over whatever alignment you are part of.... what is your success rate?

[Humble Poirot]

I don't have much time but I will say this:

Lying as town is inexcusable. As a rule, you should NEVER do it. There might be some very specific scenarios for gambits but bad players are getting a hold of that fact and using it to lie repeatedly to save themselves (because they're unable to do by simply not being scummy). After playing horribly, they will pretend it was all a gambit and that they made no mistake (even after being emotional and insulting but being offended when they feel others are).

This is the hallmark of a bad player. Someone who will think that they did no wrong, that they had no flaws, will have nothing to learn from.

In this case, to add insult to injury, we have the cheating tactics that, imo, should've warranted a modkill.

People devote sufficient time of their lives to play this game with others only to be completely disrespected by these types of tantrum-prone, childish and irrational players who want to get their way without any concerns for the rest of the players.

I think I'll go back ot my break from mafia soon and only try to play some sort of invitationals since it only takes a couple of these types to heavily influence a game for the worse.

On the bright side, there's people like Matias/zMuffin/PA who keep my faith in humanity up.

I haven't read all the comments post-game. I'll do it if I have time.

btw, I feel wake deserves every insult he gets. He insulted us with his actions. Ours are just words, and they're the truth.

Anyway, congrats Guyett. Good game Matias, zMuffin and others and thanks Shamrock, aptil, beastcharizard and Venrob for not replacing out like so many people this game.

[Guyett]

I don't like you, HP. You're making what ought to be a fun game a miserable experience. And yeah, I DO det the sense that you keep twisting a distorting what I say. You preached about going after lurkers yet you were relatively quiet in regards to Ferret and Yessiree. BOTH you and Kaze seem to have gotten hostile in response to my lawyer-like questions. You DO make horrible assumpions about me based on, for fucking God-damned fucking holy shit's sake, A RANDOM VOTE. WHAT THE FUCKING GODDAMN HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU YOU PARANOID AND DELUSIONAL PSYCHOPATH?

I'm NOT Scum, but you don't know that.

I am, however, getting ready to replace out. You and Kaze have made this game shit. You fucking bastards. Either you're too stupidly aggressive or too maliciously dishonest: you're both wrong.

Oh, and I'm fucking laughing at Kaze right now. Who here forgets how damned mean and aggressive he was to others? I sure don't.

I've just about had enough.

This seems very familiar...

[YellowKingValley]

I dunno. The only thing wrong with his post was his AtE to replace out. I mean, he can get angry and insult their playstyle all he wants but ain't being "stupidly aggressive and maliciously dishonest" a legitimate play for scums?

[Sakura Hana]

I bet if I hadn't replaced out i'd have been D1's lynch.
Wake should definitively be blacklisted/WotC'd.

[Wake1]

I thought my gambit was worth the risk at that time, because I could have taken not one but two NKs that Night, protecting Town. I think I'll stop doing gambits, because they're rarely if ever accepted in general.

As for the insults and personal vitriol, it's not warranted. Being mad over gameplay isn't a good enough reason to personally attack someone. That applies to me as well, and don't even try to make me laugh HP about me deserving insults because my actions "insulted everyone." What a BS excuse to come from someone who keeps up the appearance of being a civil intellectual.

Yeah, I say hurtful, stupid things when I'm stressed, but at least I admit it's all wrong and don't make excuses for it. I'd like to see if Matias, HP, and others can do the same as well. I sort of think they might be too proud or cocksure to do so. You can blacklist me if you want, but it'd be a reckless rush to judgement.

[Guyett]

Oh yeah I remember about our little conversation YKV. I actually thought delaying the result was good because it got the scum worried about who was investigated. I thought you were only delaying to prolong your time in the thread though

[Guyett]

your play ended up drawing both doc's towards you instead of the nk's...