micro 816-I: spaam (normal game) (gambe over)

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin pointed out:

VOTE: Gamma

GG. Gemeni and I were scum.

And the associatives I used to determine the team last night:

Hello all!

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I only voted Flavor Leaf an an opener, why exactly are you voting them @Irrelephant11?

It's someone YOU currently think is scum tho, we're day 1, page 2. Anything about them so far that makes you believe they are scum, besides not voting for The Worst with you initially.

mm but I'm right
tw lied so just try to tell me how he's town

why do I need more than a scumclaim to vote someone
the fact you haven't unvoted means you agree anyway

It doesn't mean I agree, I don't see anything AI from them yet. (Like I said, it was an opener) I'm going to have to see more content from them before I unvote.

[Irrelephant11]

all the scumteams feel pretty awful at this point

Reminder that we were both townreading gemini for things she would never do as scum

unless

she was flavor's partner
I'd love to see gemini's crumbs I actually have no clue why anyone ever thought she might claim doctor

Another partner indicative moment

So basically I townread the fact that you're not joining FL on the gemini train, which is I guess a conditional townread that assumes both town!FL and town!GT
Another way of saying this I guess is that I think your only two plausible partners at this point are FL and gemini

(I was talking to Gamma here)

How does me + flavor leaf work out as as plausible partners?

[Irrelephant11]

Anyway long story short I believe in your ability to sort this RC (and in the 2% chance you're scum you'll just win by voting me so whatever)
Shoshin thinks it's obvious that mutant is conftown fypov and that FL is always the correct lynch for you here
I'm going to be pissed if I made two correct doctor saves (one that no one could have seen coming) and still lose but I'm pretty hopeful that won't happen

let me know if you have questions

[Irrelephant11]

Oh one more thing (a big piece of how I figured it out last night)

I effed up the quote thingy but Essentially it was a response to your recent post @Irrelephant.

I said: "I agree with this ^ and it's making me believe that FL might not be scum here simply because you really shouldn't add your partner in as bait to be lynched but this is just logically speaking."

Gemini agreed with me that FL is towny because Gamma brought attention to FL while he was being lynched
Except that never happened
I misremembered something mutant did as something Gamma did and gemini used my incorrect memory to give FL towncred

VOTE: Gamma

I think Mutant is the partner and not FL because FL just directly scum aligned themselves with Gamma with their recent postings instead of just biting the bullet (so to speak) and voting them (in the case of Scum!FL)

She does the same here when FL last-second changes his mind on Gamma
It was a pretty obvious attempt to get me/mutant to doctor incorrectly by trying to ascribe towncred to FL

[Irrelephant11]

Also if/when you see mutant as conftown there's no way I as scum 100% confirm him town to start this game day
That should rule out me/flavor team btw

[mutantdevle]

I'm actually town doctor - RC/RC/RC are my protects, I retargeted RC because I figured scum would have expected me to change my doc targets. Irrelephant is scum for his counterclaim. VOTE: Irrelephant

If you're really the doctor, then please explain how any of your actions make any sense?

Amongst other things, your behaviour towards RC does not make sense as someone who was protecting him every night.

Day 1 - He was only a null read. Why not protect someone you town read?

Day 2 - Goes up to a town lean. Fair enough. But why did you choose RC again instead of Gamma/irrelephant/me?

Day 3 - So, at this point, you have no reason to believe anything other than you've just saved RC's life. Yet, at no point do you ever state a full town read and you still seem to be easily able to consider RC as scum:

Flavor Leaf + RC?= it's not out of the realm of possibility given them, It just doesn't seem as likely to me given how extra their play would feel. I'm saying that it's not..cohesive, doesn't make sense because RC could have just jumped on any slot FL was on and vice versa.

Gamma + RC?= Not much interaction to gauge how likely this is. Gut feeling is telling me no but if someone seems something I don't then I'm all ears of course.

RC+ Irrelephant?= Feels the same as Flavor + RC.

Surely you should be more confident that RC is town, right? This doesn't sound like someone who just saved RC from being the night kill, this sounds like someone who is scum and knows they wouldn't be able to misslynch him so doesn't feel the need to say anything that would allow them to push in that direction.

[mutantdevle]

I was acting like I had a role all day yesterday, and after being the only one not on Gamma, town doesn’t roleblock me.

Since when were you pretending to be a PR yesterday?

Could you point to the posts where you said this please?


Also, you'd have to understand that from my POV in identifying irrelephant as the doctor, you not being on the Gamma wagon means jack shit. The only way I'd be able to conclude that you were town was to also conclude that RC was scum. RC being scum is something I did actually put thought into last night but ultimately I concluded there would be a very slim chance that he would be. From there, my only concern was whether you or Gemini would perform the kill.

[mutantdevle]

I feel like I’ve also hard defending three townies that flipped in Prof Friday, The Worst, and Gamma.

Huh. Thanks for explaining why you killed prof fridays. His reads weren't too good, he didn't PR tell. I guess you must have killed him for the town credit then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mutantdevle]

You want me to vote irrelephant?

I'd prefer it if you kept engaging with Gemini tbh.

When trying to convince to hop on the Elephant wagon.

I think it's pretty clear, especially with my actions hence, that this was because I wanted to sort both you and Gemini.

[mutantdevle]

Gemeni’s obviously setting up a fake protective claim, so that doesn’t entirely work. It can to an extent, but i love me some loopy claiming paths.

If Gemini claimed doctor I probably wouldn't believe it.

Why are you pointing this out? Are you saying this is what made you think I was the doctor? I said this at the time because I believed Irrelephant to be the doctor - hence anyone else claiming it would be sus. Although I didn't consider it impossible for me to be wrong at the time, Gemini was the last person I'd have expected to claim doctor.

Also, it's nice how you've highlighted that you wouldn't have believed Gemini's claim. In fact, technically, you still don't. The only reason you think irrelephant isn't the doctor is that their claimed past actions POE's the scum team to 100% being you and Gemini. You even acknowledge that the idea of Gemini being the doctor is so stupid that you assumed I was the doctor at the start of this day. Gemini has only claimed doctor as a last resort.

[mutantdevle]

Plus, that roleblocker claim is scum.

Why?

[mutantdevle]

FL Mutant

Forget your own alignment: who is scum in docs and why?

Gemini. Because I've been PR reading irrelephant as the doctor for a while now due to a post they made which assumed it was definitely a doctor who prevented the kill night 2. When I questioned their strongest town read just to make sure I knew who they protected, he gave a definitive answer. When he was seemingly willing to accept the idea that you

could

be scum, I double checked that you were still his strongest town read. From there, it made sense to me that they were not overlooking the possibility that you could have been scum that no killed as that was a thought I was also having. Finally, Gemini's actions are terrible for someone with a PR and even worse from a doctor. Their actions towards you really do not strike me as someone who was protecting you every day and especially not as someone who was supposed to have a soft inno on you from night 2 onwards.

To clarify, these are the posts that lead me to conclude that irrelephant is the doctor, specifically the bolded parts:

also after thinking about it massclaim is bad for town in the situation where an unclaimed PR allows for mylo to be mmaylo (mislynch &

maybe

lose)

Yeah, because most likely a PR gets killed and I'd rather that not happen considering it's still two mafs out there. I sense some fishing here. I'm working within a pool of Flavor, Gamma, & mutant. I feel like if RC was scum, we'd be seeing more drama and just confused bullshit from their slot. If it turns out that Irrelephant is scum, hats off to you then. I want to take Mutant out of that pool but it's obvious that my town reads need reevaluation so *sigh*

How would mamylo mean that it's bad for PRs to claim? The only scenario that could be bad for is if our only other PR is a protective. For every other PR, knowing everyone's roles would help to guide their own.

I'd also like to point out, I don't think protectives should ever claim their role - unless they're at L-1. I don't see the benefit to it. Their actions don't give us guilties, hence there's nothing to claim. All they can do for us is give us an extra day or 2. You could argue having them claim tells the other PRs not to target them, but that's just WIFOM as any scum could just claim a protective role.

How would mamylo mean that it's bad for PRs to claim? The only scenario that could be bad for is if our only other PR is a protective. For every other PR, knowing everyone's roles would help to guide their own.

I mean,

the only way it's mmaylo is if there's a protective.

So that was kinda my point?
Also protectives can provide soft innos when there's no kill, like I already said

I mean, the only way it's mmaylo is if there's a protective. So that was kinda my point?

Roleblockers, jailkeepers, bulletproof modifiers? There's plenty of other roles and modifiers that can prevent kills other than protectives.

I must admit though that I am not well educated on what roles, modifiers, and combinations thereof are considered to be normal.

I know those roles exist?

I'm just saying that

if

there's a protective

, then that's the situation massclaim is maybe bad. Not really sure why you're arguing with me about that by saying "well there may or may not be a protective"??

I know those roles exist?

I'm just saying that if there's a protective, then that's the situation massclaim is maybe bad. Not really sure why you're arguing with me about that by saying "well there may or may not be a protective"??

I was going to respond to this but I've decided not to.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant don't vote anyone idc what your reads are

If you think Gemini is scum sell me don't vote her

I hope what I've said and provided evidence of about both Gemini and Irrelephant is enough to convince you of who the doctor really is. If you have any further questions about it, then feel free to ask.

I assume you want to vote before allowing me to do so?

[mutantdevle]

If we lose we lose because our first two lynches were shit ftr

Ircher basically gt and y'all quicklynched TW while I wasn't here

And the Gamma lynch was poor.

I don’t really think any of those mislynches add up. That’s just how games go. If scum win, it’s generally because they got solid mislynches and got themselves out Scott free.

You

really

want town credit for not being on the Gamma wagon don't you?

[mutantdevle]

I started saying I was going to end up being the game losing mislynch.

Just as some feedback on your scum game, you saying this a few times almost made me target Gemini with the roleblock because I was questioning whether you'd think that you were too scum read to make the kill.

[GeminiTwin12]

At this rate, the mafia is going to take this game. It's obvious that scum is Irrelephant, it makes sense now as to how they've been pulling the strings all game. Hats off to you, sir. | And I didn't claim doc as a last resort, I'm not naive, me making a fake claim here would be pointless.

To address post 2105 - I wasn't trying to make it easy/obvious, so I don't know why you'd even ask me that question. My gut was telling me that RC is most likely town, I've played with him before. This doesn't feel like their scum game, it's usually more drama, more bs coming from their slot. My head was telling me to exhaust all possibilities on the off chance that was wrong - that being said I kept protecting RC because I felt like he had the

best

chance at catching scum.

[mutantdevle]

Shoshin pointed out:

VOTE: Gamma

GG. Gemeni and I were scum.

Yeah lol. When I first saw it I assumed it was a joke as I didn't think FL would be dumb enough to forget that the night kill could still be prevented. But since the start of the day, looking back at this I definitely think it was a scum slip.

[Irrelephant11]

You had to make a fake claim. Like objectively that's what any scum in your situation has to do - Either I've cleared the entire town or you fake claim, those are the options.

You were protecting RC for why??????

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
you clearly haven't been a doctor for one second. The reason RC is the right person to protect N1/N2 is because they're the semi-IC, not because their reads were great (which they weren't at any point this game, given you and I were his strongest townreads most of the game)

pedit: I don't know about scumslip (I think it was an intentional joke), but it's certainly not nothing

[mutantdevle]

At this rate, the mafia is going to take this game. It's obvious that scum is Irrelephant, it makes sense now as to how they've been pulling the strings all game. Hats off to you, sir. | And I didn't claim doc as a last resort, I'm not naive, me making a fake claim here would be pointless.

No, it wouldn't be pointless. Claiming, VT, that's what would have been pointless. By claiming doc, you ensure the lynch is on you and not FL who I'm assuming probably has a scum role (though, I'm not entirely sure what damage it could do now).

Pedit: Also, yeah, what irrelephant said :P

[mutantdevle]

My gut was telling me that RC is most likely town,

So, your gut is why you protected him night 1?

Is that also why you protected him night 2?

[GeminiTwin12]

Did you not read what I just said?

[GeminiTwin12]

Or did you just glance over it?

[Irrelephant11]

If you think we're scum what's the point of your question
Just accuse one or both of us of misrepping you

Also, which of mutant/flavor do you think is town?

[Irrelephant11]

You have two minutes remaining before I conclude Flavor is deciding for you

[mutantdevle]

Did you not read what I just said?

Or did you just glance over it?

I mean, if you're trying to tell me that the only reason you protected RC night 2 is simply that you gut read him as town then I'm afraid that's the wrong answer.

And if that's also the reason you protected him night 3 then, well, you may as well be admitting you lied about your claim.