Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Korlash]

No, Korlash, that's honesty. I've been straight up for the whole game. I am taking some blame because I am due some blame. That's what's fair. It's not a ploy to get you to see me as town. I'm trying to earn town points in spite of my shortcomings as a scumhunter.

Really? I think trying to get me to believe it's "honesty" would be a form of trying to earn townie points. If you truly are taking some blame, why do you scoff at me for giving it? Shouldn't the response be "yeah I both deserve and expected that."?

Does that do anything for you at all? Fonz + username or Fonz + PF?

I refuted your entire case on Fonz based on the vig and you agreed with me yet you still push him like things you said still hold water... So no. At the start of the day I would have loved to say Iam + Fonz but given Your recent activities I'm more prone to saying Iam + Red.

Which part of this is better evidence against Red than against Poker?

Your post 2003 seemed to suggest Poker was doing that in an attempt to further the wagon, not hinder it. So yeah, your clarification does change things. That being said I like where my vote is right now so I guess I still think Red is the better choice.

I don't really have a point here, because I'm pretty sure you're right about the vig being their priority, hence The Fonz's continued survival. Mostly I just want more people to read that game, because it's amazing.

I won't deny a roleblocker has the potential to be good and a hinderance to the scum, but for every game you show me where a roleblocker won the day I'm sure if I cared enough I could find one where it was useless. Or even worse, where it hurt the town. But it's cool, we can have different opinions on this as I don't see it being really relevant. Moving on.

Here is the pertinent point: If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

Lets see... day one of a 21 player game where a townie who doesn't make it to lynch gets wagoned up to 8 without a scum... You know, it isn't actually that hard to believe.

I'll have to leave the rest for later, after work perhaps. Excelsior!! *jumps away*

[PokerFace]

Yay scum are obv looking for Vig at night.

I have a theory, before night 1 no case was first person to suggest there was a vig and that said vig should axe werewolf. Low and behold werewolf dies night 1. No case dies night 2

are you SERIOUSLY arguing that the mafia doesn't already know not to kill werewolf?

Vigs.

okay, i don't think i understand your point. a vig should absolutely shoot werewolf. what i said does nothing to decrease the likelihood of that.

And well fonz is a role blocker. If fonz stops a kill did he stop the vidge or scum? We don't know. And if he stops vidge can Fonz save Scum from vidge? logically. So scum could possibly use fonz to their advantage

as far as that 8 people voting a townie argument I have no response. It obviously happened given the reveal of those players. Why scum didn't jump on and be early votes I have no clue. Either the group loves to lurk, didn't care, have day talk and planed that (doubt it) or were too busy in real life or with other things.

As far as my arguments that defended cyberbob yay I made a mistake there. I did start to suspect bob and thought someone would give a good argument against why I thought bob was town but I believe only Red attempted to do that

Can someone give me their take on cyberbob and ckd during day 2?

Their awkward interactions can go both ways. Cyberbob changes his vote a lot. I don't know if this is common practice for him or not, but he went through this strange period during D2 where he was explaining an Antihero vote to him, then he called him out for having a post that was poorly structured soon thereafter. It was weird. I think ckd was his main suspect, but he acted like he wanted someone else to give him a reason for it not to be, I guess

While Fate agreed with my belief cyberbob was town

In other news Cyber looks at a situation of two PRs claiming or whatever,

and goes out of his way to call CKD out on his scummy ass reaction.

Cyber definitely isn't scum with CKD. I don't see him bussing in the middle of a clusterfuck claimstorm.

As far as my habbits to jump on alot of wagons near the end. Yes I had suspicions on those people that i said at those times. Also pre-inhim's death I believe a no-lynch would happen if there was no majority. No lynch's suck!

only lynch after learning that fact was KMD's and well I gave my logic for picking KMD over dgb and cyberbob. logic was wrong which sucked. what can I say? This may be the second game I defended scum as town and got lynched for it. I can't recall a time I ever defended one of my scum buddies. I think all I've ever done with them is said I had no read on my buddies or tried to not even acknowledge them. As a player that always searching for connections as town, I avoid them as scum and disguise my read so I can bus them if necessary. Though I prefer to bus them when i actually have a plan to make their death greatly benefitial to my side.

I think thats all I got as far as a defence goes

[Korlash]

Well that settles that. Poker is town for his 2026. (For reference he may still be scum along with Iam, but as that means Iam would still need to die we can shelve poker for today.) High five there buddy for same team. yeah, let's make this a repeat of Clerks.

Lets see, where was I... Right. Chev wagon.

Sera's vote doesn't make it a wagon, even Farside's was simply a "random" so there's really no call for scum to wagon onto it without risking some backlash for it. Interesting to note the start of a Cyber wagon along side it. next four happen within 2 hours. So it jumps from a non wagon to a wagon in 2 freaking hours. Kat, now Poker, didn't even post in that time. The only person of importance to get a post in during this build up is runner. Who's contribution is "what's going on guys?!?!" Katsu joins like an hour later with a 'works for me'. The wagon then starts to lose people, so while it may have still be in the lead it was clearly on a downward slope. Nocase, then farside. Xal replaces in and joins it, cyber eventually settles.

So what we're looking at here is that the wagon got up to it's highest point in a matter of 3 hours. 3 flipping hours. You cannot base anything on certain alignments jumping on or staying off when you can't even say a fraction of the people had the time to post, let alone vote. In addition, we have evidence of both known scum staying away from the wagon and the fact that at least one unknown scum also stayed away from it, so from a scientific standpoint it's easier to say scum would be more prone to avoiding the wagon then joining it simply because we already have proof of it happening. but its irrelevant because of the fact you had five votes in a matter of 3 hours, 4 of which are already proven town.

There is nothing that suggests alignment is a factor in Katsu's vote, not to call it town or scum. You put too much weight into the time the wagon lasted and not enough into the time it took to build. you also failed to note the decline in it's numbers following Kat's vote. your point is flawed and just further evidence of your scummy intent. K thanks bai.

Fonz following you even with his personal stance on Kat, your history of pushing faulty cases against town, and the obvious oversights of this new one isn't all that surprising to me. Although it does make me regret ever moving my vote.

Unvote:, Vote: Iam

It's not over Red. You've still got some 'splaining to do... er, stuff to answer for...

[RedCoyote]

Korlash, I told you not to make me choose between username and PF. I have solid townreads on both of them. I mean, I realize that one of them is probably scum, but I don't want to make the decision.

username is saying that if PF is not scum, then all of the scum would have had to have been playing incredibly low key given the vote counts on D1. Korlash is saying that it's a bogus argument because Kat's vote had little to no thought put into it. He seems to be voting username largely because Fonz has a meta of pushing cases against townies.

I'm going to tell you right now, Korlash, barring anything else, PF would probably get my vote here. Both players have been effective in earning townreads from me, but username has done a better job, despite his results. As a townie, I feel like I got a lot of the same reads he has throughout the game (more or less). The real thorn in username's side is the Cyberbob switch,

but

what almost washes that out is the fact that PF didn't fair much better. Let's face it, neither player pursued the Cyberbob wagon very hard yesterday, but username did so stronger than PF did. PF claims that he had a townread on Cyberbob, which is reasonable and fair, but if I'm going to get on username for moving the wagon away from Cyberbob, then I should hold PF at least somewhat accountable for not really pursuing it at all (notwithstanding his question in post 1901).

Let me get my ducks in a row here. Fate is off the table. I will not be voting Fate today (and possibly throughout the remainder of the game). Korlash, I'm really not interested in lynching you today either.

What does everyone think about Starbuck? Ojanen did a fair job to be sure, but Runner was as scummy as they come. Starbuck has not been interested in scumhunting at all. How does she fair vis-a-vis vote count analysis? I'm looking over it and a couple of things stick out: 1) Runner never casted a vote. 2) Ojanen helped get Antihero to claim by voting him. 3) Every subsequent and successive vote was effectively a useless one (Me, PF, and Cyberbob). 4) Starbuck didn't vote yesterday. 5) Starbuck still hasn't voted today.

This might be an acceptable alternative to PF/username. Any thoughts?

[Korlash]

Korlash, I told you not to make me choose between username and PF. I have solid townreads on both of them. I mean, I realize that one of them is probably scum, but I don't want to make the decision.

Then let me make it for you... You will vote Iam *waves hand* these are not the droids you are looking for *waves hand* Give me money *waves hand*

username is saying that if PF is not scum, then all of the scum would have had to have been playing incredibly low key given the vote counts on D1. Korlash is saying that it's a bogus argument because Kat's vote had little to no thought put into it. He seems to be voting username largely because Fonz has a meta of pushing cases against townies.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the wagon in question happened in too short a time to put scope into who was on it. It happened in a time span of three hours, how incredibly low key do they have to be playing to not join a wagon in such a short amount of time? Barely a fraction of the players even posted so you can't make any arguments about whether scum were or were not avoiding it intentionally. it's literally like a coin flip. There is no statistical data that says if you flip 5 coins in a row one of them has to be tails. You can't pull any alignment suggested out of those 5 votes without ultimately guessing, and Iam has made too many BS arguments this game with far too few results to be allowed to get away with a guess right now.

I'm going to tell you right now, Korlash, barring anything else, PF would probably get my vote here. Both players have been effective in earning townreads from me, but username has done a better job, despite his results. As a townie, I feel like I got a lot of the same reads he has throughout the game (more or less). The real thorn in username's side is the Cyberbob switch, but what almost washes that out is the fact that PF didn't fair much better. Let's face it, neither player pursued the Cyberbob wagon very hard yesterday, but username did so stronger than PF did. PF claims that he had a townread on Cyberbob, which is reasonable and fair, but if I'm going to get on username for moving the wagon away from Cyberbob, then I should hold PF at least somewhat accountable for not really pursuing it at all (notwithstanding his question in post 1901).

Well taking the fact that poker is obv town out of the argument, pushing it when you're backed into a corner wins out over not pushing it to me. but all that aside you're the worst Cyber offender of them all so I don't think you can give an unbiased view of that account personally. Just saying.

This might be an acceptable alternative to PF/username. Any thoughts?

What happened to your Fonz kick? And no, I don't see Starbuck getting the axe today.

Quick question, why is Fate off the table?

[The Fonz]

We need to massclaim pretty much before we do anything else.

[Korlash]

Cool, lets get Iam started. I'll hook up the electrodes and one of you guys turn on the buzz saw...

[Fate]

Will be getting to this tomorrow.

Things of note:
1. Why massclaim if the vig is going to claim vanilla? And with the, oh yeah, SCUMBLOCKER alive?
2. I feel naked and exposed without Korlash's comforting vote on me. What the hell happened? You're fine to question Red with "why can't I mislynch Fate?" who is supposedly your suspect as well but you're gonna VOTE OUTSIDE ME?
3. Iam is town and being wrong doesn't make him scum, what the fuck? Your town read is gone just like that, bam one post, this one:

Iam on the other hand is almost universally accepted as town, short of me and a tangential hypothetical presented by Poker. Not only that, but his credibility towards leading the town seems unwavered even after two straight up failures on his part. If he is town, leaving him alive not only reduces the scum pool by an almost assured one, but allows a favored townie to remain in the game. While his track record doesn't speak highly of him so far, the fact remains it would only take a lucky guess by him to effectively string up a scum. He is by far a bigger threat then some silly little role blocker.

So your reasoning is that Iam is a huge threat to scum, should've been killed, and since he didn't ergo he is scum? Yet in the SAME POST you go "well I'm basically universally accepted as town as well"??

NO BULLSHIT.

I'm calling bullshit because:

If you had a geniune scumread on me, and thought your read on me was as good as you've been SPOUTING FOR 70 FUCKING PAGES, then wouldn't YOU be a big threat to scum? Shouldn't YOU have died?

But no, I don't see any "Well Fate's replacing in was townish.. and the fact that I'm still alive gives credence to his townhood."

NONE OF THAT

Just a "well I'll save that Spy slot for the final mislynch. Hooo boy have I been workin on it for awhile. Today though I'll go after harder to lynch townies with bullshit WHY HE STILL HERE nonsense."

THATSA HOW IT IS ISNT IT?

YOUVE BEEN A CHEEKY COMICAL SCUMBAG THIS WHOLE FUCKIN TIME?


AND YOURE SCUM WITH WHO... POKER? FONZ?

HEHAHEAHAHHAHA OH MAN THE NEXT TWENTY PAGES OF MY READ WILL REVEAL YOUR SECRETS TO ME

[Korlash]

So your reasoning is that Iam is a huge threat to scum, should've been killed, and since he didn't ergo he is scum? Yet in the SAME POST you go "well I'm basically universally accepted as town as well"??

NO BULLSHIT.

You should read my post before you call bullshit on me because I'll cram your idiocy down your throat and make you regret picking the fight. I don't like people misquoting me in anyway shape or form.

My 2014 starts off with me stating I didn't agree with the logic and simply went on to show why Red was wrong. It then ends with me calling the logic wrong and faulty. I never used it as real evidence against Iam and it hardly reflects my case on him in the slightest.

If you had a geniune scumread on me, and thought your read on me was as good as you've been SPOUTING FOR 70 FUCKING PAGES, then wouldn't YOU be a big threat to scum? Shouldn't YOU have died?

It's a rare moment I meet someone stupider then me. I'll give you a chance to acknowledge your fuck-up and move on. For the sake of argument though, I don't have the 'pull' that Iam does, so no. In the event I was using this logic I wouldn't be as big a threat as Iam. Plus I've 'been spouting for 70 pages' apparently on you alone, with no takers. So even in the event you are the scum I hardly think you would find me a threat.

Not only have you choose to misrep my stance on already false logic, but you present it with an argument of more false logic. That's hard to do, good job mate. that is moderately impressive.

[Fate]

I should probably read the rest of the game before I post again

<_<
>_>

Skimming ftl?

[Korlash]

*shrugs* For what it's worth I apologize for my attitude... Been a rough couple of days... >.>

[RedCoyote]

I'm saying that the wagon in question happened in too short a time to put scope into who was on it. It happened in a time span of three hours, how incredibly low key do they have to be playing to not join a wagon in such a short amount of time? Barely a fraction of the players even posted so you can't make any arguments about whether scum were or were not avoiding it intentionally.

The thing is, the Chevre wagon continued to grow after Cyberbob's vote without anyone unvoting. werewolf, DGB, and farside all joined it in the next 6 or 7 pages before Chevre made that gigantic post that ckd latched onto. This is a better point than you're giving username credit for, Korlash.

The Chevre mislynch wagon on D1, at its peak, was:

Seraphim

,

inHimshallibe

,

Jerbs

, Katsuki,

Xalxe

,

Cyberbob

,

werewolf555

,

DGB

,

farside

. That's a lot of green for a mislynch. I'm not saying this is obvious or anything, but you've got to admit that at least, in this context, Kat doesn't look great.

Also, Korlash, I was trying to remember who else accused me of being too "woe is me" like you just did a little while ago. It was Cyberbob. Interesting.

What happened to your Fonz kick? And no, I don't see Starbuck getting the axe today.

I'm still on board with Fonz. Did you change your mind?

And why is Starbuck not getting the axe? What makes her so special despite not having done anything in the past two days?

Quick question, why is Fate off the table?

Because he's town. I know I've teased you a few times, but, in the end, I feel like I can read SpyreX fairly well. This was SpyreX town.

---

1. Why massclaim if the vig is going to claim vanilla? And with the, oh yeah, SCUMBLOCKER alive?

Yeah, I'm starting to lose hope that there is any other PRs, but you never know. Might as well lock the scum into a claim.

[iamausername]

Dammit Korlash.

You're acting like I omitted important details for some nefarious purpose, but actually, those details are completely irrelevant to the point. Yes, the Chevre wagon jumped from two votes to six in a matter of hours, and most of the players weren't online in this time to join it. That explains the known fact that the first five votes on this town wagon were town. It does not explain why no scum joined the wagon in the subsequent FOUR DAYS that it continued to linger as the largest wagon in the game.

Unless, of course, there WAS already one scum on the wagon, and they didn't want to be seen all piling on at once, because scum teams tend to have an aversion to all doing the same thing at once. This is also why the idea that because known scum CKD spoke out against the wagon, we should assume that every other scum was also against the wagon is frankly laughable. This also explains why Cyberbob did deign to join the wagon, but only after Xalxe created a buffer zone between his vote and Katsuki's.

We need to massclaim pretty much before we do anything else.

Cool, lets get Iam started. I'll hook up the electrodes and one of you guys turn on the buzz saw...

Yeah, fine. I am a two-shot cop. I used my first on DGB on N1, and got an innocent result, obviously. I used my second on Korlash on N3, and got another innocent. Oddly enough, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

PokerFace can go next.

[RedCoyote]

I don't know what scumlist you're referring to, because I just went a looked back (finding it odd that you brought up you ever had a scumread of Korlash) and the only major criticism I found against him was here. Perhaps on your mental scumlist he reached further depths than you ever told us about, but you never voted him and I don't believe he has ever left your green "safe" section on your actual scumlist.

Anyways, that's of minor importance because I believe you.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a lynch between Starbuck, Fonz, and PF. As the possibilities whittle down in my head, PF is looking increasingly like someone I'd be comfortable voting.

[RedCoyote]

You take what we know now, couple it with our last scumputer report,

230 Cyber 50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 25 + 5
198 iaun 50 + 50 + 33 + 25 + 40
190 Kats/Poker 50 + 50 + 50 + 40

133 Anti 50 + 50 + 33
123 Spy 50 + 33 + 40

115 RC 50 + 25 + 40
90 KMD 50 + 40
25 R/W 25

PF, it might be time for you to say good night.

[iamausername]

I did list him as one of my top three lynch choices here too, but mostly you appear to be right. Well, whatever.

[PokerFace]

I have skimmed through part of this page so far.

Saw IAMUser claim and ask for me to claim

Because I don't want to hold things up I'll claim now

Vanilla townie. yep most boring role there is next to survivor

As things stand i'm leaning toward the Red Fate scum pairing and as Fate has claimed, Red its your turn. If Red already went and I missed it in my skim, Fonz can pick between Star and Korlash on who goes next

[RedCoyote]

No, you're fine. VT here as well. Go ahead Starbuck.

[Korlash]

The Chevre mislynch wagon on D1, at its peak, was: Seraphim, inHimshallibe, Jerbs, Katsuki, Xalxe, Cyberbob, werewolf555, DGB, farside. That's a lot of green for a mislynch. I'm not saying this is obvious or anything, but you've got to admit that at least, in this context, Kat doesn't look great.

It wasn't a mislynch, the wagon eventually fell apart. And yes, in this misconstrued context, Kat doesn't look great. I'll give you that. In this, flip a coin and maybe he's scum, yeah. I'll give him a good 50% chance of flipping scum.

Five people voted for Cheve at nearly the exact same time, so regardless of any other factors you cannot argue that one has to be scum.

Also, Korlash, I was trying to remember who else accused me of being too "woe is me" like you just did a little while ago. It was Cyberbob. Interesting.

What can I say, he was a smart man. Also, how many people have to point it out before you stop? Just saying...

And why is Starbuck not getting the axe? What makes her so special despite not having done anything in the past two days?

Because she isn't as obvious scum as Iam nor has as many people focused on her as Poker. Unless the massclaim provides something, one of those two will be lynched. (as it stands now, anything can happen I suppose)

Because he's town. I know I've teased you a few times, but, in the end, I feel like I can read SpyreX fairly well. This was SpyreX town.

Well I like to think the same about Poker. so if I believe you, that's you and fate gone, and if you believe me, me and poker, I think that makes Iam a hell of a lot better candidate no?

You're acting like I omitted important details for some nefarious purpose, but actually, those details are completely irrelevant to the point. Yes, the Chevre wagon jumped from two votes to six in a matter of hours, and most of the players weren't online in this time to join it. That explains the known fact that the first five votes on this town wagon were town. It does not explain why no scum joined the wagon in the subsequent FOUR DAYS that it continued to linger as the largest wagon in the game.

Well it's a fucking fact isn't it. Regardless of Pokers role no scum joined it in those days, yes? you can't deny it, I can't deny it, no one here can deny that. And you're saying that these scum avoided the wagon simply because it already had a scum on it? Bullshit. When has the presence of one scum on a day one wagon in a 21 player game ever been the sole reason another scum goes "maybe I shouldn't join this... this wagon that 5 townies are on, simply because my brother in arms has his presence on it...)

I'm not trying to make up an argument for why scum stayed off it, I don't freaking have any clue. But you can't sit there and say it's "because poker is scum" that's bullshit.

Unless, of course, there WAS already one scum on the wagon, and they didn't want to be seen all piling on at once, because scum teams tend to have an aversion to all doing the same thing at once. This is also why the idea that because known scum CKD spoke out against the wagon, we should assume that every other scum was also against the wagon is frankly laughable. This also explains why Cyberbob did deign to join the wagon, but only after Xalxe created a buffer zone between his vote and Katsuki's.

the only frankly laughable thing here is that people are actually still listening to your crap. The idea that scum didn't want to join it because they saw a high number of townies voting for a townie and wanted to be the people on the other side, arguing against the wagon is just as possible. CKD didn't join the wagon even before Kat did, so right there is proof that there are scum who didn't join the wagon even before another scum got on it.

We can bicker about this all day if you want, but we'll get nowhere. Well I will, you still have Fonz following you like a little puppy and even have Red awed by your silver tongue. It's sad really...

Yeah, fine. I am a two-shot cop. I used my first on DGB on N1, and got an innocent result, obviously. I used my second on Korlash on N3, and got another innocent. Oddly enough, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

The result of a Cop investigation will be either "Dangerous", "Not Dangerous", or "No Result".

can we lynch him now?

[iamausername]

yes you're right.

i didn't quote the exact wording that is in the PMs i received, clearly this means i am scum.

jesus fucking christ.

[Korlash]

Yup, that's exactly what it means.

[Starbuck]

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

[Fate]

Holy fuck Starbuck have you even CAUGHT UP ON THE GAME YET?

[RedCoyote]

Let's all just calm down and type this ->

Unvote

;

vote: Starbuck

[Starbuck]

I said I tried reading, but I gave the list of the different lynches. Currently, my suspicions fall on Iam and RC for being on every single End of Day lynch.

RC more than Iam.