Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Patrick]

Votecount

Simenon (6) -- Niv, Carrotcake, Mastermind of Sin, ZONEACE, Toaster Strudel, Yamahako
Celtic18 (1) -- The Venerable Zorg
Niv (1) -- ckillor
hmrox (1) -- The Fonz
Lemming1607 (2) -- Beastly, hmrox
ZONEACE (4) -- Simenon, Flare, Lemming1607, KaleiÐoscøpe
Yamahako (1) -- Ether

Not Voting: Sir Tornado, Aimee, Zeppo, Flameaxe, Erg0, Celtic18
22 alive, 12 to lynch.

[Simenon]

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Don't be an idiot. I have already claimed to have three other mason buddies- they can tell you if the warning was in the pm or not. Unless you mean to suggest all are scum except niv.

warning that there is a scum in your group = dont tell the scum what you are doing.

So my pm was a logical extension to the warning in the mason pm?

Thus confirming that I had received the mason pm?

Odd.

[Niv]

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Don't be an idiot. I have already claimed to have three other mason buddies- they can tell you if the warning was in the pm or not. Unless you mean to suggest all are scum except niv.

warning that there is a scum in your group = dont tell the scum what you are doing.

So my pm was a logical extension to the warning in the mason pm?

Thus confirming that I had received the mason pm?

Odd.

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

also:

We may be interpreting that bit wrong. Mine could say something along those lines, but I got it as "you can be sure of a possibility" and not "you are sure there is a scum".

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

[Niv]

ebwodp. we are not allowed to quote pms from the mason group

[Flare]

The words "as well" seem to imply that you think you've addressed my problem with the first reason already, which you didn't.

If Niv is suspicious of Simenon for not recieving the mason PM, why would he warn them to not talk to each other? This would only be suspicious if the mason PM didn't contain the warning about alignments.

Your second reason is pretty spurious, if Patrick did send Sim the townie PM then there'd be no reason for Sim to send out a warning, since he'd know that everyone already had it in their PM. You're arguing the wrong point here.

But he sent out a warning not to talk. Not a warning that one might be scum. This should most likely be considered a wifom tactic if he is scum, and a legitimate warning as town.

Don't you see the problem with a scum mason? He knows who the other masons are AND he can talk with the other scum. What exactly is the point in having masons in that case if the scum know who they are? Would Patrick mod do something like this?

I am leaning towards a SK mason.

First of all, this gives an advantage to scum. The masons still can confirm themselves and such.

Sometimes mod put restrictions like they can't tell their teammates who all are masons, but scum masons have been used a good bit SirT. This isn't proof there isn't one.

So it was in the scum PM. I see. Vote Simenon.

No, he sent it.

FoS:Yamahako

Also keeping an eye on Flare; I don't like the second paragraph of his attack 160 on TS considering his ZONEACE vote, and I can't decide from his defense of Colin if he knows too much or he's just plain stupid. I hate how like a third of the game can bother me this much.

So I can only express suspicion of one person at a time? And not point out something scummy?

Just curious why you think it's suspicious.

Reply with quote
This whole mess can be easily cleared. Please quote your PMs to each other (that is, not the role PMs, but the PMs you sent each other) in the thread.

From my experience, quoting only the moderator is disallowed. I don't think it is against the rules to quote each other (although both of you should clear up with Patrick first), because in Open 21: Friends and Enemies, which was also modded by Patrick, he allowed the mason (Albert B. Rampage) to quote his mason buddy's (Ripley's) PM to him in thread. Here is the instance where it was allowed and the confirmation that it was indeed quoted from a night time mason talk PM.

You sir, are a cheater. Quoting any PMs are usually not only disallowed, they are modkillable offenses.

FoS:SirT

While we're waiting for that...

ckillor: Do you really think that Niv is scum? Do you really think he'd try to pull something like this early on day 1 just to get the attention off a two-vote wagon on Lemming?

Considering play I've seen from Niv I don't think it's actually too unlikely.

[Sir Tornado]

You sir, are a cheater. Quoting any PMs are usually not only disallowed, they are modkillable offenses.

Actually, you are wrong. Read the rules again

11.) Do not quote or fakequote your

role PM

. This is a modkillable offence.

Now, I'd like you to tell me where you get the part: "Quoting ANY PMs is not allowed". I have just given you, in my post an instance where I had seen a mason quote a PM from his buddy in a Patrick mod game.

[Sir Tornado]

Oh, and while you are at it, explain the FOS on me too. Tell me, how my post makes me scum.

[Flare]

Which is usually a modkillable offense SirT. It's usually understood that quoting a PM=a modkill

The FoS was for the attempt of, what was in my eyes, trying to get a player to get themselves modkilled.

[Sir Tornado]

Which is usually a modkillable offense SirT. It's usually understood that quoting a PM=a modkill

You still haven't told me exactly where you got this information from.

[Beastly]

Hmm . . .

I'll catch up tomorrow. Seems a great deal has happened.

[Simenon]

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

You obviously haven't read carefully enough. Reread my point in 201 until you think you have the answer. Then resubmit your paper. Be sure to put it face down.

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

I didn't get that

at all

in the mason pm. Rather, paraphrased mine says something along the lines of "you are sure someone may be scum". That doesn't mean there IS a scum. Also, nothing resembling the word infiltration was used.

Again, reread my post in 201, which answers probably any follow up to this.

[Flare]

SirT, it's

understood

. Quoting a role pm is supposed to be "proof" you are that role, the same rule obviously applies to mason PMs.

I would doubt that there is some game to reference this, because it's understood and players do not want to be modkilled.

Now if you could explain to me why you'd think a role pm, a mod PM, and a mason PM, when quoted, would produce different punishments from a mod?

[Erg0]

Only PMs from the mod are able to directly confirm you. A mason PM is not from the mod, and could easily be faked because it's not in a standard format the way a role PM (usually) is. SirT gave an example in 198 of a game where Patrick allowed a mason PM to be quoted. I gather you disagree with the principle, but history is against you on this one.

[Sir Tornado]

SirT, it's

understood

. Quoting a role pm is supposed to be "proof" you are that role, the same rule obviously applies to mason PMs.

I would doubt that there is some game to reference this, because it's understood and players do not want to be modkilled.

Now if you could explain to me why you'd think a role pm, a mod PM, and a mason PM, when quoted, would produce different punishments from a mod?

Read my post where I ask Niv to quote his PM to Simenon. I give an example where Patrick allowed a mason PM to be directly quoted in another game.

You cannot quote a PM from mod because it directly confirms you, and because the mod is actually not a part of the game, and can't dispute you. Quoting a mason PM, on the other hand is completely legit unless stated otherwise (which seems to be the case here), because it actually does not confirm you by any means as scum can send night PMs to each other too.

PS: In the post where I asked Simenon and Niv to quote their PMs, I told them to clear it up with mod first. So, how was I trying to get them modkilled? Explain the FOS with a valid reason please.

[Ether]

unvote; vote: Flare

So, it just looks like you hopping on two easy wagons.

So I can only express suspicion of one person at a time? And not point out something scummy?

You called the wagon

you were currently sitting on

an easy wagon. No doubts. No acknowledgement you were sitting there. No.

Considering play I've seen from Niv I don't think it's actually too unlikely.

That's ridiculous. The guy came out on Day 1 with what he thought was proper role-based scum-nabbing information. What are you

thinking?

Just curious.

Just curious why you think it's suspicious.

What is

that

supposed to mean?

[Niv]

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

You obviously haven't read carefully enough. Reread my point in 201 until you think you have the answer. Then resubmit your paper. Be sure to put it face down.

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

I didn't get that

at all

in the mason pm. Rather, paraphrased mine says something along the lines of "you are sure someone may be scum". That doesn't mean there IS a scum. Also, nothing resembling the word infiltration was used.

Again, reread my post in 201, which answers probably any follow up to this.

Reading over the pm, i can see how you got that. also in my mind: if not everyone is trustweorthy, then your "secret society has been infeltrated."

also:

You sir, are a cheater. Quoting any PMs are usually not only disallowed, they are modkillable offenses.

Actually, you are wrong. Read the rules again

11.) Do not quote or fakequote your

role PM

. This is a modkillable offence.

Now, I'd like you to tell me where you get the part: "Quoting ANY PMs is not allowed". I have just given you, in my post an instance where I had seen a mason quote a PM from his buddy in a Patrick mod game.

PM from the mod to all te masons:

no quoting aof a pm, no matter where they are from. this was sent after my claim occured.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Still liking my vote on ZONEACE

[Erg0]

Unless Sim is going to contradict what Niv said about quoting PMs, Niv vs. Simenon is being consigned to my Big Book O' Time-Wasting Misunderstandings for now.

Flare either isn't reading very carefully or completely missed the point of one or two previous posts. Flare, this is the first reason I was referring to:

Two reasons. Niv says it's in the OP in thread, but the mason pm about confirmed innocence is NOT in thread. How would he know about that without the PM?

My response:

Your first reason is incorrect, Niv says that the warning about possible scum is in his original PM, not in the thread.

This was the point I was saying you hadn't addressed. The point itself is pretty much insignificant now, but the fact that you skipped over it twice gives me pause.

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that you think Niv is scum? I was asking ckillor because he has his vote on Niv based on what looks to me like craplogic. Do you support his craplogic, or was that just an ill-advised flippant remark?

[Sir Tornado]

PM from the mod to all te masons:

no quoting aof a pm, no matter where they are from. this was sent after my claim occured.

Fair enough.

[Niv]

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Unvote, Vote Zone

.

[ZONEACE]

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Unvote, Vote Zone

.

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

[Flare]

You called the wagon you were currently sitting on an easy wagon. No doubts. No acknowledgement you were sitting there. No.

Do the words "timing and reasoning" mean anything to you?

Just curious.

That's ridiculous. The guy came out on Day 1 with what he thought was proper role-based scum-nabbing information. What are you thinking?

What would you do as part of a five man mason group. Automatically claim? As a mason?

This was the point I was saying you hadn't addressed. The point itself is pretty much insignificant now, but the fact that you skipped over it twice gives me pause.

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that you think Niv is scum? I was asking ckillor because he has his vote on Niv based on what looks to me like craplogic. Do you support his craplogic, or was that just an ill-advised flippant remark?

1.I was assuming you were supporting Niv, who I understood as saying it was in the first post. Apparently I misunderstoof the meaning of "first post" or something along those lines.

2.I am suggesting that it is entirely possible for Niv to be scum. I have already stated my stance on the mason/scum mason situation.

What is that supposed to mean?

it's mainly trying to indicate I don't think you're suspicious, and making sure you're fully thinking out your answers and not just answering.

If you know what I mean.

[ckillor]

can i please be replaced? i'm in to many games and i need to get out of a few.

[Patrick]

JDodge replaces ckillor effective immediately.

[The Fonz]

Ryan has pretty much admitted playing differently from his usual playstyle in order to stay alive. Can we please lynch him already?