Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Wisdom]

I don't fucking care about lynching cabd. We're lynching ceph and you're resisting is all I know.

Pedit: oh of course you will

[Wisdom]

ceph/tbone/reck confirmed

[Wisdom]

Go on, hammer cabd town to confirm it further

[Wisdom]

Yeah, except the claim was fucking scummy as shit.

No it was completely null

[Wisdom]

compare with ceph, who has been called scum by many, but never wagoned

[Wisdom]

Here's a real question, Grey: What happens when Cabd flips town?

[Wisdom]

No I don't have information, I'm asking you what will happen if he flips town

[Wisdom]

Go on, hammer cabd town to confirm it further

you sure did a quick about face from voting Cabd to NVM CABD IS TOWN

yeah because scumfucks like you want him lynched and are trying to save ceph

[Wisdom]

Youre still not answering grey

[Wisdom]

blah blah reck Ill do whatever the fuck I want, the point is you're scum and so is Ceph

[Wisdom]

no

unless you want a townlynch

[Wisdom]

you should vote ceph

[Wisdom]

yeah lets lynch town so ceph can continue hiding and pretending hes doing things

[Wisdom]

no, cabd is being voted by everyone and their mother

Nobody is fucking voting ceph all game

[Wisdom]

Also cabd is not pretending he's doing things. That's only ceph.

[Wisdom]

so grey is dodging the question

[Wisdom]

Oh?

I'd lynch you, Wisdom.

you can try

[Wisdom]

yay townlynch

[Wisdom]

VOTE: ceph

[Wisdom]

ns you better town it up because my townread on you is shaky. Do things.

[Wisdom]

lld is not in the game, its grey

Why are you voting her anyway?

[Wisdom]

And why is that?

[Wisdom]

ok. LLD is town because of her replace out which you apparently weren't even aware of. Stop voting her.

Also I don't care about your team. I want to see you playing, and soon.

[Wisdom]

In general, yes. Not in this case. I explained why.

[Wisdom]

What is your opinion on the way the lynch happened yesterday?

[Wisdom]

Then go see how it happened. If you are town, it's Ceph/Reck/Tbone. But you're not making me feel you are town.

[Wisdom]

Yes. The way you're saying this feels like you're faking it.

[Wisdom]

no, read the fucking game @grey

[Wisdom]

ns, it's exactly because I know the difference

[Wisdom]

Why is he town?

[Wisdom]

Instead of bullshitting start taking this game seriously. You can be town when you want, yet you are not doing it.

[Wisdom]

Convince me otherwise

[Wisdom]

The votecount is not what I meant by "how this lynch happened". You should look at it too, Grey, if you're asking me if I'm voting Ceph just for a miller claim.

Also still waiting to hear why ns is town.

[Wisdom]

What question, if we are massclaiming? Why are you asking me? Why do you care about that?

[Wisdom]

And you fucking used it on ns of all people

When we have 3 fucking obvscum in the game

[Wisdom]

Anyway I'll believe you since that makes things easier.

Can we lynch ceph now?

[Wisdom]

We're not going to touch greyice. LLD replacing out was town and I am not going to explain why again.

[Wisdom]

What fucking scum says this

Oh yeah! If you think I'm replacing out, you might need to expand your hobbies to "skullfucking yourself with a steel dildo until you grow more than 2 braincells".

then takes it back and replaces out?

[Wisdom]

There, ns, the scum agree with you, you must be right

[Wisdom]

oi Tbone, results

[Wisdom]

shos is town, tbone is scum, so is Reck.

Ceph is scum, see how everyone is scumreading him yet avoids voting him like the plague. He has also done nothing town, his posts look townish on the surface but that's all. He has done absolutely nothing.

[Wisdom]

Trying to discredit me won't save you from anything

[Wisdom]

Alright - why did Grey claim and clear you? What does he gain?

pedit: @ns

[Wisdom]

I blocked Rhinox.

VOTE: tbone

if you guys dont quicklynch this you need to quit mafia.

He fucking blocked the most obvtown player in here.

[Wisdom]

preedit: Because his claim is SAFE AS FUCK considering I already outted my role yesterday. And then he targeted yet another player with a claim on the table. He's really breaking ground with his information.

This doesn't make any kind of sense

[Wisdom]

Paranoia on me after he flips scum?

Keeping a player who often fucks up lylo alive until lylo?

nah. He's just town.

[Wisdom]

This game is solved, it's Ceph/Tbone/Reck. You just have to listen to me and stop being stupid.

[Wisdom]

So you are going to ignore that tbone blocked obvtown, ns?

[Wisdom]

ok can you fucking replace out then? I don't fucking need you to ruin this game with your stupidity when scum are claiming scum left and right.

[Wisdom]

You cannot convince me I am wrong because I'm not wrong. Grey is town.

Now stand there and let obvscum buddy you

[Wisdom]

maybe spamming that you're getting mislynched with emphasis on the "mis" will help you AtE us better

[Wisdom]

yeah gj ns, spiting me will help you win team mafia

[Wisdom]

ns will you fucking realize your goal here should be lynching scum, not winning against wisdom in an argument?

I mean even if I fucking accept that everything Grey/LLD have done is null, can it possibly compare to how obvscum Tbone is?

[Wisdom]

So you're telling me that your petty reasons for LLD scum are greater than Tbone's constant scumclaims?

[Wisdom]

If you had read the game you'd fucking know. I explained yesterday how Tbone was safeclaiming by saying he blocked me because he knew from Reck I had no night action. And now he fucking claims he blocked the most town player in the game.

Your reasons for LLD is you didn't like a few posts and that was all, can that fucking compare?

[Wisdom]

Except it's not only the actions.. it's his whole game. It's his nonsensical claim. It's everything I've been saying.

And sure, that's one way to look at LLD. Why are you ruling out the possibility she just doesn't like playing town and decided to replace out? Like Who did?

[Wisdom]

It's like, you can either believe LLD was saying the truth or not, yet you're choosing to completely rule out the possibility she was telling the truth.

Why? Do you have some meta or something?

[Wisdom]

Who was completely hyped over playing scum and only decided to quit because he got town due to reroll.

Activity means completely nothing, I'm top poster as both town and scum. This was never the argument.

But sure, keep trying to discredit my arguments. I know you don't like it slots are being obvtowned.

[Wisdom]

No, yes if she accepted to play Team Mafia, no

[Wisdom]

The point here is not whether the replace out is null. I can give you that it can be null. The point here is that Tbone, Reck and Ceph are all pretty obviously scum and should be lynched yet you're voting based on a feeling that LLD COULD have faked her dislike for the game when it's equally likely it was genuine

[Wisdom]

Re the second: what if she thought she had time then suddenly life hit her hard?

And do you think that, regardless of alignment, the answers to most of those questions is no, and she had the opportunity to bow out and let someone else deal with this game, she would take it?

Not everyone looks at replacing out the same way. For example I avoid it at all costs if I can't help otherwise. If you want to argue nullness, staying and being useless vs replacing out are both not things to scumread someone over. It depends on the player.

[Wisdom]

too bad im right

[Wisdom]

And you proved it by refusing to lynching Ceph. Now it's time to refuse to lynch Tbone, am I right?

[Wisdom]

I prefer to think he replaced out because he isn't a good player.

yeah he signed up to play team mafia just to replace out

You are not even trying to make sense

[Wisdom]

I'll lynch Ceph in a heartbeat, as I will lynch you. Tbone has just straightforwardly claimed scum with saying he targetted Rhinox, so

[Wisdom]

The whole random tracker thing is what's hanging me up. Why would he make up that HE RANDOMLY GOT A TRACKER RESULT? That's so batshit.

Because he probably did get one.

[Wisdom]

I don't have anything to reevaluate. You have been obvscum all game and today you even claimed scum. PoE also agrees with me. Things are crystal clear.

[Wisdom]

I dunno, tbh Rhinox was a pretty big ? on my list and I didn't have very good feelings about him, so I was sorta shocked when he died.

rofl

Rhinox was the fucking most obvious town in the game

obv buddy defending is obv

[Wisdom]

Hey Wisdom, you do know that in a game about different people coming to conclusions, people are going to have different opinions, right? You do realize that acting like a fucking asshole isn't going to do anything, and that maybe sometimes you should consider other people don't hold your viewpoint, right?

mhm! I've found the scum, and I'm making the town stop being stupid and sheep me. I could care less whether scum hold my viewpoint or not.

[Wisdom]

The only thing I hate about myself is I just can't shut up when I have caught scum. I feel like scum are going to convince town with their AtE and I just have to keep replying to shut that down, but most times it just either makes my arguments feel less strong or makes caught scum feel town. Grey was right that I just have to shut up and not argue with scum.

[Wisdom]

So @Iecerint, shos, Tier, ns: Please try to consider I am right about those three being the scumteam and them trying their hardest to lower my credibility by capitalizing on this weakness I have. Thanks.

[Wisdom]

What changed your mind on Reck?

[Wisdom]

Also I still don't understand why anyone would not scumread Ceph

[Wisdom]

@Mod

GreyICE (2): shos, T-Bone

shos should be notscience in this votecount

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Ceph

I agree with Tier that this feels too easy. I want to lynch Ceph or Reck first. According to what we discussed yesterday, Tbone scum means Reck scum, but not vice versa, meaning if Tbone somehow flips town Reck can still be scum, but if Reck flips town then Tbone is also town. This makes Reck a better lynch than Tbone.

[Wisdom]

now lets watch reck trying to get tbone lynched instead of ceph

Exactly like it happened yesterday

[Wisdom]

Also I'm trying to pin nothing. It's a fact that Tbone can only be scum if you are scum and told him i have a day action.

[Wisdom]

Because he said he blocked Eddie when mollie had claimed mailman.

[Wisdom]

Grey outted himself as scum

Tbone explain to me again how Grey's claim supposedly outs him as scum

[Wisdom]

also wat

ns vote is shos's now?

[Wisdom]

I'm probably crazy, but I'm rereading the exchange and think Tbone is town. Maybe even Reck.

And I don't like Grey.

[Wisdom]

And I feel like Iecerint should be way more wary of sheeping me than he is. I am used to everyone being against me, this doesn't feel right.

[Wisdom]

I can buy ceph/grey/Iecerint actually

Ceph and Iecerint were my first gut scumreads when I was catching up and grey was LLD, so yeah

Anyway. Ceph has to go.

[Wisdom]

ok let me be clear because I guess I'm confusing you more

D1 message was

Reck

. mollie sent him a reachout, mentioning she is pretty freaking town, which Reck acknowledged in 432.

D2 message was

shos

. Eddie sent him a message saying that he was thinking Tbone is scum. shos acknowledged that in 1404.

shos did not seem to realize it was Eddie though, because he was asking Tier if it's him.

Anyhow, my point is that Tbone could have known my messenger is day action either from Reck or shos, allowing him to claim a roleblock on me safely.

yes

Though shos is less likely because he didn't seem to know it was Eddie, unless he was faking it

UNVOTE:

Yeah, I agree with your thoughts. It's either Tbone is telling the truth, didn't see the claim, and blocked me because he was scumreading me, or, he is scum with Reck, they saw the claim, they understood it's dayaction from mollie's message, and so he fakeclaimed safely.

This means that Tbone scum is dependent on Reck scum.

[Wisdom]

Or... third option... T-Bone is scum who fakeclaimed without reading mollie's claim?

Or, T-Bone is scum who actually is a roleblocker and actually did block the mollie slot.

First makes no sense because at least one person on his team would have seen it.
Second makes no sense because scum don't block a mailman.

[Wisdom]

That's not what was argued, read again

[Wisdom]

Even if they saw mollie's claim they didn't know it was a day action. Mailman usually acts at night.

You received a message from mollie D1, therefore they learned it's day action, making it safe for Tbone to claim he blocked Eddie

[Wisdom]

They have daychat, so

[Wisdom]

ok. That's not the meaning of "outted himself as scum". You just find it scummy.

[Wisdom]

you do have to look at how safe and ineffective Grey's choices were, as well.

Why were they safe and ineffective? LLD supposedly targeted Tbone on N1, before he had claimed. As for targetting ns, having claimed hated meant nothing, we had a whole discussion about whether he is hated scum or town.

[Wisdom]

I fucking hate this game, this bullshit and Reck's support on this bullshit makes me think they are scum again

[Wisdom]

what? you said you blocked eddie

[Wisdom]

You don't fucking make any sense

[Wisdom]

VOTE: tbone

ill listen to my team

[Wisdom]

so shos doesnt control his vote

Anyone care to explain how this happened?

[Wisdom]

oh nevermind. Apparently he controls notscience's. They switched votes.

what's the point of this

[Wisdom]

also holy fuck what just happened with the scores

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

probably but like I don't see any use for that. shos can still vote, ns can still vote, their votes just have the wrong names

[Wisdom]

Cabd's would still be more useful than this

No idea what Katsuki's did

[Wisdom]

@Reck ns is controlling shos's vote and shos is controlling ns's

[Wisdom]

neither of them seemed to know about it, so probably ceph or iecerint

[Wisdom]

you control notscience's vote and he controls yours

[Wisdom]

you were the only one who hadn't expressed their surprise at it other than ceph

[Wisdom]

why not?

[Wisdom]

"he hasn't done shit all game" (which is demonstrably untrue, he just hasn't done shit on his VLA)

What the fuck has he done?

[Wisdom]

VOTE: ceph

[Wisdom]

He has done nothing beyond the purpose of looking town. Everything was half hearted. There's nowhere town motivation.

People have been calling him scummy left and right yet nobody is voting him.

He is the only person I am completely confident is flipping scum in this game.

And you are increasingly becoming his most likely scumbuddy.

[Wisdom]

Cleared two players and outed you as scum.

you didnt clear shit. Ceph is still scum.

And ffs you didnt out anyone as scum.

Why the fuck are you playing like you want to get lynched?

[Wisdom]

Then fucking get lynched

VOTE: tbone

[Wisdom]

i knew i shouldnt have replaced in this fucking playerlist

[Wisdom]

im sick of reading your posts, i hope we lynch you asap

and i hope you flip town so i can blacklist you

[Wisdom]

I have a terrible approach to the game? You are playing against wincon by asking to be lynched

[Wisdom]

This way of thinking makes no fucking sense. We should be aiming to lynch scum today, tomorrow, fucking always.

And you supposedly have a blocking power that can stop scum.

[Wisdom]

Bullshit. Every fucking townie, even newbies, know that defending themselves from a lynch is better than sacrificing themselves so they are not lynched in lylo. Especially when they hold a PR capable of making a difference.

I do not believe you are this bad. I can only interpret this as you being scum and putting an act so we are moved and not lynch you.

[Wisdom]

haha yeah I can't even consider that I am wrong, that's why I've changed my mind on who scum are about 3 zillion times the last 24 hours

[Wisdom]

Sure. Who is scum?

[Wisdom]

id happily lynch iecerint right now

[Wisdom]

cleared

Why the fuck does this word keep appearing? Nobody is cleared, it is proven there are day actions, I have one, Cabd had one, there are passive actions like notscience's. Ceph can be scum without using a night action.

[Wisdom]

Speaking of the amnesiac tracker, where is his result today?

[Wisdom]

He keeps saying he cleared two slots.

[Wisdom]

Reck, you received a message from mollie right? What was the subject of the message (if you can state).

I already said what the subject of the message was.

Why are you even asking this anyway?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

liking shos less for these pointless questions

[Wisdom]

pointless and loaded, rather.

[Wisdom]

tbone is probably town

Now care to explain why ns is still in your "scum block" after grey cleared him?

[Wisdom]

After you KNEW supposedly that there is a tracker in the game, you were afraid to have been tracked, so you claimed to have targetted the person who you truly targetted, in case you were. BUT, you didn't block him - you killed him. it's really that easy

yeah because scum would totally have tbone, the most suspected person, carry out the kill

[Wisdom]

shos you are scum, im a fool to have believed otherwise. This aint a town tunnel.

[Wisdom]

either way he's NOT today's lynch, no fucking way.

yeah because he's your fucking buddy.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: ceph

im lynching nobody else.

[Wisdom]

Loud

[Wisdom]

So, considering that, sending him to make the kill makes sense. There are lots of other possibilities, btw - but I think what I said is most likely.

No, what you said makes no sense. Scum don't send their most suspicious to carry out the kill. Bussing is irrelevant, what's important is the kill to succeed.

[Wisdom]

Your tunnel on Tbone (and ns, but you are forced to drop that now) is way too fucking shallow. You are better than this.

[Wisdom]

why would it not succeed? will he roleblock himself? lol

The town can have its own roleblocker, or a jailkeeper, or anything.

Also: You are arguing that scum want to bus Tbone - then why the fuck does Tbone care about getting tracked to Rhinox? Since scum would WANT that, in your twisted logic?

[Wisdom]

You are forcing conclusions that make no sense left and right.

[Wisdom]

I have read everything, shos.

[Wisdom]

And I don't care about seeing a case on Tbone. Everything will be confbias like it has been until now. You don't stop for a moment to realize that Tbone's play doesn't fucking make sense for scum.

[Wisdom]

You don't reevaluate shit, your reads have been sticky as hell since forever.. Yeah, you are scum.

[Wisdom]

It makes more sense as town than it makes as scum.

[Wisdom]

Because I do not understand why scum would ask to be lynched. Also I do not understand why scum would claim something as scummy as blocking the dead.

Yes, all those are scummy things, but it makes far more sense to me that they came from a townie who's playing terribly than scum.

[Wisdom]

Liek, I would totally be offended if I were him. You are basically basing your read on the assumption that he sucks. I don't make that assumption.

He said it himself he's having a terrible towngame so

[Wisdom]

if himscum makes sense to do these actions, ok.

It doesn't.

[Wisdom]

what town player wants to be lynched? what town *PR* wants that?

What scum player wants to be lynched?

[Wisdom]

No, it makes perfect sense. Paranoid of the most obvtown. If he was scum, he would be the one scum would send to do the kill.

[Wisdom]

Nobody wanted tbone lynched other than you, that's another forced conclusion.

[Wisdom]

who makes choices like that without being sure?!?!?

Lots of people.

[Wisdom]

Every lynch was just as viable

[Wisdom]

And still is, other than ns

[Wisdom]

You, ceph and iecerint

[Wisdom]

bullcrap. We're lynching ceph and you right after

[Wisdom]

They're not, shos is, tbone isnt

[Wisdom]

Iece already made it evident he thinks tbone is scum. He will help pushing his mislynch.

[Wisdom]

i didnt understand "subject of the message" as literally the Subject field of the PM, rather what the message was about

[Wisdom]

cool, vote ceph

[Wisdom]

We don't need him to claim.

[Wisdom]

We proceed by lynching Ceph

[Wisdom]

What convincing do you guys need? The sole fact people have been calling him scummy left and right yet nobody is voting him is enough. He is flipping scum.

[Wisdom]

Except that's not the only reason. The simplest reason is he has done absolutely nothing town. Every other player has done things that I can call town. Ceph? Nothing.

[Wisdom]

Such as?

[Wisdom]

He has done nothing other than making town-appearing posts. I can make them too as scum.

[Wisdom]

Both town seems the most likely to me. Grey had no reason to claim an inno on ns-scumbuddy in these circumstances, neither of them were in danger. Doing it as tired town just because someone is expressing suspicion on ns feels more realistic.

[Wisdom]

They're both town, and so is tbone

[Wisdom]

T-Bone (2): GreyICE, notscience
GreyICE (2): shos, T-Bone
Cephrir (2): Wisdom, xRECKONERx

Not Voting (3): Cephrir, Iecerint, TierShift

ns = shos and shos = ns

[Wisdom]

How can scum give tbone a fake track result?

[Wisdom]

So you're suggesting they also have a mailman?

[Wisdom]

Didn't mollie's message say that it's a message from another player?

[Wisdom]

I know, I'm asking you. Does it or does it not?

[Wisdom]

My role PM says that it is noted as not being from the mod.

[Wisdom]

Meaning, there's no way the tracker result is a message. Can we abandon this silly theory now? The tracker exists.

[Wisdom]

Which we know it is, so..?

[Wisdom]

Like, we know there was for example a miller who was also a thread unlocker
So why wouldn't a hated have whatever other role?

[Wisdom]

Anyhow, Tier is correct that it would be a risk to claim ns doesn't have a night action basing it just on the hated claim.

[Wisdom]

The tracker could be scum I guess

[Wisdom]

Then vote Ceph

[Wisdom]

Why was Rhinox killed last night over the claimed roleblocker?

Because he was obvtown and because scum would be incredibly stupid to kill a lynchbait like Tbone

[Wisdom]

I think T-Bone and Cephrir are scum together. I am not sure on the 3rd.

If this is the case, then the third would be Reck or shos. One of them would have to tell him my mailman is day action.

[Wisdom]

you misspelled cephrir

[Wisdom]

Why don't you say something instead of whining about it?

[Wisdom]

Then you also have nothing to say, making you a hypocrite.

[Wisdom]

Yeah I wanna lynch T-bone and be through with this day if NS isn't going to be here and respond

VOTE: tbone

yeah lets lynch more town cabd wasnt enough

[Wisdom]

My "load" is that exactly one of T-Bone and GreyICE is scum.

Or they're both town.

[Wisdom]

but she's scum if T-Bone is town.

bullshit

[Wisdom]

I should reread the start of the day keeping in mind that one of Grey and T-Bone is definitely scum.

more bullshit

Did I mention Iecerint is scum?

yeah.

Ceph/Iecerint/shos it is

[Wisdom]

No, what is going on? Entertain me.

[Wisdom]

The only thing that is happening is that you have somehow forced a conclusion that there has to be one scum in Tbone/Grey so that you can force a Grey mislynch after you mislynch Tbone. It also serves as preparation for you to hop on Tbone.

That is all but I will be ignored as always and people will continue mislynching Tbone.

[Wisdom]

I don't buy that the tracker is town and I don't care about roles to begin with. This is role madness. We won't scumhunt off roles.

[Wisdom]

which he is

[Wisdom]

I was against the Cabd wagon and I am against the Tbone wagon. I have a thing for when a wagon is scumpushed and I'm always right. It's that simple.

[Wisdom]

Bullshit. There's nothing broken about all those roles being town, even if the tracker is also town. We don't know what scum have.

The one fact is that we're not going to be basing reads or lynches on roles. You are just doing it because it's convenient to push your mislynches.

[Wisdom]

The presence of weak town roles (Cabd's flip) indicates that scum have at least one crappier role as well

Says who?

More forced conclusions.

[Wisdom]

Dude, you were for the Cabd wagon before you were against it (less clear memories here), and you were for the Tbone wagon before you were against it.

You were also for the LLD/GreyICE wagon yesterday before you were against it.

Who the fuck cares? I change my mind a lot, the point is I was right at the end.

Is there a point to this other than trying to lower my credibility?

[Wisdom]

but Wisdom, yeah, you were ON the cabd wagon before you let it go and let it through; and same goes for the T-bone wagon. if Tbone flips town, that's actually pointing at you and Iece both -_-;

nothing is ever going to point at me because both me and my predecessors have been hilariously obvtown

[Wisdom]

But it's funny how you and your scumbuddy try to change the discussion to one about my credibility. You know that's my weakness, and you hope people won't listen to me.

[Wisdom]

it looks like you're building steam on townwagons and then leave to not be on a mislynch.

Yeah it's not like you've played with me a thousand times and you know how I play

[Wisdom]

Ok, this is fucking stopping here.

Tier, Grey, ns, Tbone: Get the fuck off Tbone and Grey and lynch Ceph with me. I'll follow you on shos or Iecerint if I must.

[Wisdom]

Cabd flipping functionally VT means scum almost certainly have at least (probably exactly) one role that is analogously benign. This is another feature of how games are designed.

No, it isn't. This is just a forced conclusion.

[Wisdom]

The wagon exists because people listen to you and give you attention.

No, the wagon exists because shos and Grey are pushing it.

[Wisdom]

without ACTUAL REASONING like here

WISDOM PLEAZ TELL ME WHY THE FUCK YOU THINK CEPH IS SCUM

Because read the fucking game.

[Wisdom]

no man stay, iece needs help discrediting me

[Wisdom]

No and I still don't understand it because it's bullshit. All of those roles can be town roles. Nobody fucking cares about roles.