Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Quoted for reference, I got to go watch Pirates 3 nowMastermind of Sin wrote:Spectrumvoid:
Early in the game you said you felt Harry_Potter was suspicious, but I'm not seeing a reasoning for it. Would you care to extrapolate on why you felt H_P (not Quagmire) was suspicious? The only thing I've found so far is lurking, but that reasoning came well after you originally said you felt he was scummy.
Later you defend MMoD (not ThAdmiral) by saying that you think lurking is possibly scummy, but not definitely, and FoS the people who are voting him for lurking. What caused your change in stance between H_P's lurking and MMoD's lurking?
Then a few posts later you say that you're going after Pooky for lurking. Why did you change your mind once again?
You claimed Roleblocker and having blocked Mathcam. You then voted for him, but unvoted, saying you believed his claim. However, a few posts later you put him at lynch -1 saying "Since I'm the roleblocker who first brought it up, I'll follow this wagon." Can you explain your actions regarding this? Also, why did you say that you blocked Coron for pushing the Mathcam wagon? Considering that you yourself gave evidence against Mathcam and supported his lynch, I don't see why you claimed suspicion of Coron. Please explain this.Permanent V/LA.-
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You are avoiding the question. You have not answered why you suspected Harry_Potter, before he was replaced by Quagmire.spectrumvoid wrote:I was suspecting Quagmire, hence I switched him out and asked STD to verify his office. Well, but I was also suspecting STD at that time.
Indeed.On may 02, I first voted quagmire. I also repeated it on may 12 and june 5 though I admit with little explanation.
I see...please try.I really cannot remember what I was thinking about lurking. That sounds like a cop-out answer, but it's true. I will attempt to jog my memory by looking through my notes on monday, but I don't think I noted anything.
Understandable, but why did you unvote him in the first place?Because I felt it would be hypocritical of me to have brought the issue up and not vote him for it. An analogy: Say I claim cop with a guilty investigation on someone. Someone claims he's a (some role that is guilty to investigations even though he's innocent that I can't remember now). I will still vote for him.
(you were referring to the Miller role, by the way)
Why are you most suspicious of a person who pushed a bandwagon you agreed with? If Quagmire had come up town, would you have attacked Thok and I over everyone else? This doesn't make a lot of sense. Just because he was protown doesn't mean that he wasn't scummy or that the wagon wasn't justified. If you yourself agreed with the wagon at the time, I don't see how you can block him for pushing the bandwagon you thought was on scum until after the fact.I blocked Coron because he pushed the wagon on an innocent. I'm naturally suspicious of the biggest wagoner when the person who gets lynched turned out innocent.Permanent V/LA.-
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It doesn't make sense for those who strongly agreed with the wagon to be suspicious of the wagon pusher. You could arguably have been as much of a wagon pusher as Coron, considering that you gave evidence against Mathcam to help get him lynched. It makes no sense for you to have suspected Coron based on the fact that he helped lynch Mathcam.spectrumvoid wrote:I found my notes, and I took a quick skim over the thread.
I was first suspicious of Harry_Potter because he posted directly after someone had called him a lurker (uraj). I thought that was suspicious because he was obviously trying to evade the lurker suspicion. Also, he had posted in other games. This was different from other people who were inactive at that time, who were not posting generallly on the site.
When I unvoted mathcam, I did say that it was an 'unvote for now' because I wanted to give myself time to read 55 pages. I also did mention that while I believed his claim, it doesn't mean I believe his town.
If I push a wagon on an innocent, suspicion will naturally fall on me tomorrow. Basically, when an innocent gets lynched, suspicion falls on the biggest pushers of the wagon. I'm not getting why you think I shouldn't have blocked the wagon pusher.Permanent V/LA.-
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Says the guy who has lurked half the game. Coron, I've actually been contributing to this game, so I deserve to get a few short posts in now. I'm long overdue compared to most of us. I'm waiting for STD to chip in while I think about whether ThAdmiral or SV is scummier. What areyoudoing?Permanent V/LA.-
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You're avoiding the question.Coron wrote:My point MoS, is that if you're not doing anything how does it make sense to say "I can't do this alone"? The last content at that point was actually not by you at all.
In fact on this page I think you are maybe the third to top in total content, maybe 4th or 5th depending on spectrum and whether you count the mod.Permanent V/LA.-
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I still don't know what to make of the fact that SVadmitsthat she had very little reasoning behind her Quagmire vote. ThAdmiral has seemed like the "obvious" choice to me, and I'm always wary of that. However, he's still probably my second best guess as to who Quag's partner was. Coron's questioning of everything seems relatively protown, though I'm going to reread ThAdmiral's arguments against him. I seem to recall that STD answered my questions about him rather well, so he's in my protown camp at the moment.Permanent V/LA.-
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I'm going to back and try to figure out why I asked you this question.Save The Dragons wrote:
MMoD is done.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I'd like to hear what STD has to say about Coron, Quagmire, MMoD, and Pooky (those four in particular).
Pooky's like a blip that appears every once in a while. My gut says that he's not scum, but I don't trust my gut too much.
I like Coron as well. I think his scumhunting, although it might not be accurate, is not completely baseless, even if he does not give his reasons. I could still just as well see him as scum, but right now I'm not leaning that way.
Quagmire just wants to kill you. That's all there is to him. I'm not particularly liking that at the moment.Permanent V/LA.-
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Oh yeah, that's why. I think they were the living people left on your "kill" list, and I wanted to see how you felt about them.Save The Dragons wrote:Half of it is vibey, half of it is fact. Usually the kill lists include dead weight and such.
Kill:
armlx = worthless
Uraj45 = interesting posts as of late
Coron = lurking
Fuldu = i'm voting you
Harry_Potter = not posting much
MrBuddyLee = could possibly be scum
mystery meat of doom = not helpful
PookyTheMagicalBear = not particularly helpful, appeals to emotion bothersome
mathcam = gettin' bad vibes on this one, dudes.
Oberon = not helpful
No kill:
ibaesha = seems sincere
Mastermind of Sin = seems sincere
Save The Dragons = trust me
spectrumvoid = the whole PM thing
Yosarian2 = signs point to townPermanent V/LA.-
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I don't think that is entirely correct. Coron did not post for about 5 days after SV said she found me protown for trying to bring up activity. However, since then, your theory does hold, and I believe part of the reason he did not post was because of MoS-Faire. The only anomaly is the 3 days between his return from MoS-Faire and his return to posting after being prodded.Permanent V/LA.-
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This is a point in favor of ThAdmiral being town.mystery meat of doom wrote:I totally missed my tuesday deadline by 45 minutes, but let's just ignore that shall we.
About Ibby and MBL: I'm taking the side of Ibby. 'Nuf said.
I had an early suspicion of Yos in day 1, where it seemed like he was trying to derail viper wagon for mlaker. I also liked someone else's argument about when Yos voiced his question about items. Some said it was weak, but I find that a very interesting fact that works against him, since he claimed 'nilla town.
I really don't see why people aren't running up H_P since I think it was MOS, who brought up good points against him yesterday.
I need to collect my thoughts some more before placing a vote, but I'm most suspicious of HP, MBL and Yos atm, from what I remember from my read-through.
What led you to believe there were 5 total scum again? I forget the reasoning behind this.ThAdmiral wrote:@MoS: Logically I think quagmire's scumbuddy's are coron and thok, since they haven't voted him yet.
Quite simply if quagmire was town and there was a scum yet to vote they would just do it, right? (This would mean mafia win I believe)
That is unless all three mafia have already voted him, but I find that hard to believe since two of the people I most trust to be town (MoS, and STD) are ones voting.
More likely is that quagmire is scum and the people not voting yet are his scum-partners (except me, cause I'm ready to drop the hammer).
It is possible, however, that a mafiate jumped on the wagon thinking it was a lost cause, ready to throw their partner under a bus to look more pro-town. If this is the case I believe SV is scum and thok is town.
This post seems kinda suspect. Like he's trying to make sure that he's not leading the suspicion list, so he can make sure the others get lynched first or something.ThAdmiral wrote:Oh, right!
Sorry, I just got confused when I saw he only had two votes on him, but then I remembered mos unvoted him.
@Thok: seeing as you are trying to deduce who quagmire's scum partner is, do you have any lead suspects?
You made this post without ever presenting any case against Coron, so I don't see what *obvious* reasons you had...ThAdmiral wrote:Well I'm fairly suspicious of coron for fairly obvious reasons. I'm going to go do a read through to a) see if I can dig up any more dirt on coron and b) to look at how players interacted with quagmire through the game.
I'm going to call you on this, ThAdmiral. It's critical that we hit scum today, so I'm going to have to ask you to give me an in-depth case on Coron. Coron, the same goes for you. I want to see a case lined out in a single post, please. I'm doing the same as well.ThAdmiral wrote:Well I'm going to go ahead avote: coron.
Save the dragons: if you believe me and coron are scum then you have nothing to lose by putting your money where your mouth is and voting him as well. Just saying.
(And before anyone asks, no I haven't done the read through yet to dig up dirt on coron, but I will if you feel I absolutely have to. I was planning to then I remembered it was 79 pages...)
I'm assuming your new role has no abilities?ThAdmiral wrote:Mystery Meat of Doom night targets
Night 1: Switches ibaesha (Jack Johnson) with SpamWise (Jack Quinn)
Night 2: Switches MrBuddyLee (Jack Nelson) with the silent speaker (Jack Fox)
Night 3: No choice submitted
Night 4: Switches Yosarian2 (officeless) into the empty office of Jack Gallagher
Night 5: Switches spectrumvoid (Jack Irving) into the empty office of Jack Kay
On night 5, MMOD was switched into a new office with a new role: Jack zimmerman
I'm not going to comment on today's posts unless something really jumps out at me, because I could see you both making those posts as town or scum, and it's hard to differentiate at this point, since there's nothing else going on except talking about which one of us three is scum. I did notice that ThAdmiral both set himself up to make an argument against me and then turned around in the next post and said that if I was scum I've played an excellent game, which is basically the same as saying that I'm protown. That post is a possible attempt to butter me up and get me on his side.Permanent V/LA.-
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I'm continuing from my last analysis of Coron, since I asked him questions based on his play so far at that time. I feel that he answered all the questions adequately, but I do want to focus on this last one for a sec.
Why was ThAdmiral scum whether or not Quag was scum? Obviously, Quag WAS scum, but if he'd been town, what made you think ThAdmiral would still be scum?Coron wrote:
I dunno how I feel about the quag wagon, but it seems to me either way ThAdmiral is probably scum.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Who do you think is scum right now? Do you approve of the Quagmire-wagon?
I agree very much with this post. ThAdmiral thinking that being on the Quag wagon makes you less scummy doesn't really work (I think I actually missed this in my TA analysis). Quag's been scummy for quite some time, and he probably would've been lynched the day before had people not lurked until NL, so it's not like he wasn't pretty much condemned already. I'd been pushing him for something like 3 or 4 days by then, and as suspects dwindled, people were agreeing.Coron wrote:
How do we know we have 3 scum left? Do you know something we don't?ThAdmiral wrote: Quite simply if quagmire was town and there was a scum yet to vote they would just do it, right? (This would mean mafia win I believe)
That is unless all three mafia have already voted him, but I find that hard to believe since two of the people I most trust to be town (MoS, and STD) are ones voting.
you act like jumping on a bandwagon of someone who it looks like is going to die anyway makes you less likely to be scum. This is a reasonably common thing to be done by scum.ThAdmiral wrote:More likely is that quagmire is scum and the people not voting yet are his scum-partners (except me, cause I'm ready to drop the hammer).
This feels protown to me.Coron wrote:
:goodposting:Save The Dragons wrote:
No.ThAdmiral wrote: Save the dragons: if you believe me and coron are scum then you have nothing to lose by putting your money where your mouth is and voting him as well. Just saying.
ThAdmiral, there is no reason to rush through the day, that is unless you're scum trying to minimize the information town has.
Point against. Coron kept saying that ThAdmiral was ridiculously scummy and couldn't understand why people didn't agree, but he never explained *why* ThAdmiral was scummy up to that point.Coron wrote:I didn't vote quagmire yesterday because ThAdmiral was/is ridiculous scummy. I'm going after him because he's ridiculous scummy, and I'm going after him because he's ridiculous scummy.
Got it?
I think after that I asked Coron to explain it, though since he soon posted some reasoning.
I'm not really sure I agree that density > total #, but I don't really have a counterargument. I'm not sure what the problem I have with this argument is, bah. >_< Also, point in favor of CoronTown, since he actually voiced suspicion of someone *other* than ThAdmiral, whereas ThAdmiral has pretty much gone solely after Coron after Quag's death.Coron wrote:Ok, SV might have a few more scum tells on him, however look at it this way, what we want here is a density of scummy actions not a total of scummy actions, as ThAdmiral has many fewer posts in which to be scummy, and a lot of scumminess in these posts, he has an extremely high scuminess density.
Also, now MoS is acting shady again -_-
Coron's argument with me is pretty much a null tell, because I believe he would've taken issue with that regardless of alignment.Permanent V/LA.-
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ThAdmiral wrote:I assume there would be 5 mafia due to the size of the game. Is that unreasonable?
On the people I think are scum and the people I think are town: these are based on my overall feeling after reading through the game.
ThAdmiral, obviously there was not a 5-person mafia, or the game would be over. That's not the point, though. Do you now contend that there was simply a 4-person mafia instead of 2 2-person mafias? That is the only way that votes in relation to Fuldu and bluemonick can possibly mean anything.Thok wrote:ThAdmiral's comments are making me consider the idea of us starting with 2 mafias of size 2 each and one SK, all of those groups having some nightkill protection (necessary to explain the relative lack of kills night 1). One of those mafias would be bluemonick-Fuldu, fairly obviously.
In such a scenario, my reasons for thinking MMod (now ThAdmiral) are protown are basically null and void.Permanent V/LA.-
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gah, forgot to address the last point, and I got distracted. I agree that the Coron lurking thing is bad, but he was inactive for a long time and was really lazy. However, that point is probably the only major thing that's keeping me from voting ThAdmiral (other than waiting for everyone to present cases).Permanent V/LA.-
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Actually, I think Fuldu/bluemonick were a 2-person mafia, because we never had three kills anymore after Fuldu died. It's possible that Fuldu had a vig office, but as Thok was discussing before, it seems far more likely that it's just two mafias. This makes more sense balance-wise, because if there was a 4-person mafia, they could all get power roles and really unbalance the game. With 2 2-person mafias, if the scum got power roles, they wouldn't be coordinating the actions of all 4 of them, which balances out the fact that they have power roles.Permanent V/LA.-
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