Open 187- Silence of the Yams! Over!

[Kdub]

OK, I've read the thread and am caught up.

Unvote
Vote: CSL

CSL's play is pretty much the definition of active lurking. His posts for most of the game had no content and were mostly one-liners. When people started calling him on it, he tried to come up with some stuff by iso reading a couple players, but the notes he posted of his iso reads are entirely IIoA. His vote on Parts earlier came out of his read of Badger's case on Parts, yet he was suspicious of Badger at the time and had not done a read of Parts yet. Huh?

That is L-1 on CSL I believe.

I don't like the sentiment from kunkstar, and a bit from Badger, that CSL wouldn't provide info if we lynch him. I think people have shared enough opinions about him, even if they haven't directly questioned him. If we think somebody is more likely to be scum, we should lynch them, period. The value of catching scum outweighs any info we may gain from lynching someone else.

I have a hard time getting into the Starbuck vs. Badger debate. I was liking Ecto and Starbuck's earlier posts, but recently she's been reaching a bit more in trying to make alex look bad and pushing some AtE. If I had to pick, I'd probably say Badger is more likely to be scum, but admittedly that is not a solid read at all and is partially based on his opinion of Parts, who I know was town.

XScorpion really flew under the radar when I read through the game. Nothing really jumped out at me about his play. Most likely I will have to reread him tomorrow, taking the lynch and NK flips into account and reevaluate.

Mixed feelings about kunkstar. He seems to be putting forth a legit effort in scumhunting, but I don't really agree with his opinions about most players. Possible buddying with Badger, though I don't think they would be partners since it would seem a bit too obvious.

alex, can you cut down on the line-by-line analysis? You don't have to respond to every single sentence in its own quote box, it makes it hard to see your main point.

[Starbuck]

Alright CSL, what say you?

[CSL]

Given that I am at L-1, I must say that if you have ever read Open 185, I have made a flaw...a bad one. I have indeed learned my lesson, and will not make a mistake like that again.

Without any further ado, I now claim my role,

Doctor

.

[Starbuck]

/sigh

Any counterclaims out there?

[alexhans]

/sigh

Any counterclaims out there?

sigh? You were the one who wanted claims at the first sec of L-1... Now you have them...

CSL

... Why on earth would you claim? No one was gonna insta hammer without being lynched.

I have only skimmed a little at work so I'll post later but this wasn't really necessary.

[Starbuck]

Yeah, I did, but I expected VT claims, not the doctor to claim.

[ElectricBadger]

Yeah, I did, but I expected VT claims, not the doctor to claim.

I'm confused by this...why wouldn't you expect such?

[Starbuck]

Because I would hope that our town wasn't stupid enough to put our doctor at L-1. And noticed that no one has unvoted yet.

[ElectricBadger]

Because I would hope that our town wasn't stupid enough to put our doctor at L-1. And noticed that no one has unvoted yet.

Still confused. Obviously it's not ideal to put a townie at L-1, but that doesn't seem to disturb you; you're calling town out for threatening a

doctor

which assumes we somehow know roles. Seems rather strange to insult people for this. What are you trying to accomplish? Distancing yourself from your demand for a claim, attempting a subtle town claim for your buddy on the wagon or just trying to piss people off?

[WIFOM] (but want to show my reasoning): I'm liking my Starbuck vote a lot more now. 3 competing bandwagons, mine didn't work out so given the choice between Star and CSL at least one scum chose against Starbuck, who - if town - is much more likely to actually out scum just based on activity. Assuming the scum are holding to the one on, one off bandwagon norm Starbuck is scum unless I'm off on my Kunkstar read. [/WIFOM]

Inclined towards Kdub as well. Joined the easy lynch on town at a critical juncture for scum and his reads are just fence sitting on every other player - manages to distance without actually calling anyone out.

[Kdub]

Unvote

while we wait for a counterclaim. I'm assuming the players who have posted since the claim are not planning to counterclaim. If nobody else does, then we can assume CSL is telling the truth.

Because I would hope that our town wasn't stupid enough to put our doctor at L-1. And noticed that no one has unvoted yet.

Just because he claimed doctor does not mean he actually is the doctor. Your attitude here seems to presume that his claim automatically confirms him, but why? Also, your "no one has unvoted yet" comment, I assume is directed at alex, since he was the only one voting CSL who had posted in the thread after the claim. Are you indirectly accusing alex of something here?

Inclined towards Kdub as well.

Joined the easy lynch on town

at a critical juncture for scum and his reads are just fence sitting on every other player - manages to distance without actually calling anyone out.

Bolded is mine. Like Starbuck, you seem to be assuming that CSL is town just because of his claim, which is hypocritical because you just attacked Starbuck for doing basically the same thing.

[Starbuck]

I'd never assume, unless a flip actually occurs, that anyone is who they say they are.

I was a bit perturbed that a whole like 6 hours went by without an unvote, thus could have left that open for scum to hammer.

[ElectricBadger]

Bolded is mine. Like Starbuck, you seem to be assuming that CSL is town just because of his claim, which is hypocritical because you just attacked Starbuck for doing basically the same thing.

No counterclaim yet, so I'm assuming it's a valid claim. Nor, frankly, does CSL seem particularly tricksy. If there's a counterclaim my opinion will surely change.

I assumed CSL was a doctor

after

the claim. Starbuck assumes we should know he was a doctor

before

the claim, and thus should never have forced it. Needing things announced in thread before knowing them is a pretty significant difference.

Her claim is also revisionist, as she didn't attempt anything to defuse the building wagon as she claims others should have. If she picked up a doctor-tell, she never acted on it: actually, despite avoiding the lynch she countered my main argument against killing CSL.

Your answering for Starbuck is noted, though.

[kunkstar7]

I don't like the sentiment from kunkstar, and a bit from Badger, that CSL wouldn't provide info if we lynch him. I think people have shared enough opinions about him, even if they haven't directly questioned him. If we think somebody is more likely to be scum, we should lynch them, period. The value of catching scum outweighs any info we may gain from lynching someone else.

I agree that if they were more likely scum yes they should be the lynch. Yet most of his case as a lynch candidate was because of his bad play. This is not inherently scumplay, it can also be done by town. If no one counterclaims CSL and he does turn out to be doctor, then that proves this point.

Nice contradiction Starbuck, calling out alex earlier for subtly hinting that he knew alignments and now saying that we should know who is the doctor and not put them at L-1. If you only expected VT claims then what was the point of asking for a claim?

[Starbuck]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa...

Reaching much there kunk?

[XScorpion]

Yeah, I did, but I expected VT claims, not the doctor to claim.

You've been pretty aggressive with asking people to claim...did you seriously expect that everyone was going to claim VT?

Unvote
Vote:Starbuck

Really not liking how you've been so eager to get claims, and now the doc has (supposedly) been revealed thanks to your demands for everyone to claim at L-1.

If you only expected VT claims then what was the point of asking for a claim?

I also would like to know your answer to this.

[ElectricBadger]

Really not liking how you've been so eager to get claims, and now the doc has (supposedly) been revealed thanks to your demands for everyone to claim at L-1.

This has been brought up by others and challenged by Starbuck a couple times before, but you've never commented until now. Any reason for that?

[CSL]

Starbuck is at L-1.

Please claim, as well as defend yourself, as I might hammer.

[CSL]

EBWOP: "...as I am willing to hammer."

[Starbuck]

I am a Vanilla Townie. I've been defending myself all game, what else would you like me to defend?

If you only expected VT claims then what was the point of asking for a claim?

In my eyes, only scum would refuse to claim. Since two people have already refused to claim, they are most suspicious in my eyes.

[Starbuck]

If you feel the need to hammer me, CSL, go ahead, but longer days are better for the town.

[CSL]

While I know it is town to have longer discussions, if you say you have been defending yourself all game, then there really is no need to wait.

If that is the best you can do, then I'm not satisfied. I'm giving you one last chance to prove yourself.

Hell, I'll be dead in the night, so this'll be the only hammer I will get this game.

[Starbuck]

And I'm asking you, the end all be all lurker, what would you like me to defend?

Do you have questions for me? Do you have a case on me that you need me to respond to?

[CSL]

Yes, I have a question.

Vote: Starbuck

Are you scum?

[CSL]

Thanks for playing, Starbuck. I'll be dead tonight anyways.

[XScorpion]

Whoa, talk about quickhammer.
@Badger: Check post 188.