Open 170 - Bird C9 (Game Over)

[Toro]

Back from work, and might i just say that since neither of you can talk outside the topic that it is likely that neither of you wanted to take the chance of voting for Netlava on the off chance that the other was offline and give away your scumminess. There is no way you could have known that the other was online, plus Snix was online to unvote and that could have just been a trick of his. There is several reasons why you wouldnt vote for Netlava right after Snix did.

Also, i dont feel it is worth my energy to defend myself to Toro or EL, so i am saying this to you Snix. I have nothing to hide, anything you want to ask of me that you think may show my innocence please do. I will not hesitate to answer (although i am not as active as EL claims to be so you might have to wait a bit for my reply). I truely have nothing to hide and am not scared of "slipping up" because there is nothing to slip up on for me. But right now i feel it is useless to argue with toro and/or EL because they just take my words and twist it to their benefit and omit parts that make sense, so i am done with that. But go ahead and ask away snix, i will hopefully be online most of tonight and all of tomorrow (no work, yay!)

Coincidentally, I'm about to be off to work for 4hrs.

And I have nothing to hide as well either, to anyone. And how am I twisting your words when you and Netlava are twisting mine and EL's words to make it seem that we're scumbuddies!?

[Eldritch Lord]

That certainty is unerring Yankee, what makes you so positive that I'm scum?

You have not investigated me, the only way you could be sure I was scum is if you were scum or had investigated me.

I still don't see how your case against me is so strong. I essentially share Snix's reasoning, that one should hold off and wait on voting to make this day a little longer.

I also share Snix's sentiment that Toro is more likely to be cop based on your claims (and their circumstances). So what exactly incriminates me so much more than Snix?

You claim I was buddying up on Day 1, by voting hohum when he votes for Toro. That's not why I voted for him though, his town play was terrible, another fact that SNIX AGREED UPON.

So what exactly do you have that makes me more incriminated than Snix, who voted for your confirmed townie? Absolutely nothing, I'm calling this epic buddying up to town.

You tell me I was buddying up for FoSing him yet you're voting me over him for no reason. That buddying up part that you claim to have seen? I said it because we're friends in real life.

As for my relationship with Toro at the moment, he was the only person to make a legitimate attempt at scumhunting on Day 1, of course I was hesitant to question him. And now I believe he's cop because his claim makes sense over yours, why would I accuse him?

Now its possible that Snix's town play is better than mine, in fact, highly likely since he's worlds more experienced and introduced me to this game.

Still, I wouldn't know if that were the case because you haven't posted any case on me.

@ NETLAVA
You use the reasoning:

Also, EL was accusing me of "pushing" the hohum case. Funny thing is, EL was the one pushing the case.

Except you were and so was Snix...Hohum's play was terrible. You were pushing it from the outside, Yankee (the cop you believe) even said he investigated you and you even made a disclaimer about not forcing tunnelvision.

Yeah, I don't think scum would bother coming out and clearing me, plus Toro + EL makes the most sense.

Except that you accuse me of buddying up to Snix, how is that not a legitimate scum tactic if you think I'm scum for doing it?

It was a safe cop claim move on his part, the doc is dead and if he were scum he'd know you were town. Unless you're his partner, then it does him even more good because if people believed his claim then you'd be good to go and win.

I'm done holding off if you feel ready to accuse me with that much certainty without even posting a legitimate case Yankee.

Vote: Yankee

[Yankee]

i have posted a legitimate reason already, and repeated it when someone else said the same thing. The reason that you have to be Toro's scum buddy is because if you were a townie, toro would not have claimed to be a cop to save you when i came out as the cop and voted for you. You see, if you were a townie, Toro would have just set back and waited for me to guide the town into a mislynch. The only reason he would claim to be a cop is because he is trying to save his scumbuddy. But you are right, i should stop focusing on scumbuddies and just focus on 100% confirmed scum (in my eyes). Like i said, i cant see a way to convince you otherwise, but Toro is the mafia and that is for sure. And sorry if i come across rude, its just when i know something i know it, and its just frustrating when people dont believe you...

[Eldritch Lord]

I understand your anger Yankee, I'm a little worked up right now too.

WIFOM, maybe thats what he wanted you to think, maybe he thought the case on me would go nowhere fast and it would be faster to claim against you since your initial claim was a really bad play to begin with (no offense, its hard claiming cop for the first time, I just got killed as cop in Mini 848 -- but even noobiness considered, I don't think you would've claimed if you were really cop).

Beyond this, you have to keep in mind, you were PRETTY SURE I was scum

before

Toro claimed, and used hohum as part of your backup.

(This is worthless because Hohum's Day 1 play is worthless and he called EL+Snix, which you seem to be conceding is wrong today.)

Claiming when you only have a confirmed innocent nowhere near a lynch is just not a good play, Yankee -- it seems a lot like buddying up. Toro could've thought the same thing.

I mean, we're even left with a very unlikely theoretical here, it might be that neither of you are cop and Toro is trying to save the real cop from claiming. (Note I don't think this is likely AT ALL, I'm fairly certain Toro is the real cop just from claim timing and play)

I see distancing between Netlava and you on Day 1 and buddying up on Day 2. Since it won't apply to either of you if you're really both scum, this point is really @ Snix. Netlava doesn't join the wagon and you don't vote, but neither of you does anything to discourage it or call legitimate cases on anyone else (between a jab at Netlava from you, which isn't followed up by a vote) and Netlava actually encourages it.

Also, Netlava set me at L-1 on Day 1 and pulled off when it was mentioned, I think this is relevant now.

[Yankee]

how was i distancing From netlava on day 1? I think you should go back and reread. Dont you remember that i investigated him because he was scummy to me. I even mentioned it to him how i thought he was trying to tunnel vision with you and Hohum and asked him his opinion on everyone else. And i already explained why i was suspicious of you before toro claimed. And now it finally looks like your starting to defend Toro.

(Note I don't think this is likely AT ALL, I'm fairly certain Toro is the real cop just from claim timing and play)

Claim timing? He claimed right after i claimed. It is something the mafia would do if they were experienced, and I am fairly certain Toro is an experienced player which is why it is difficult to explain my case. That and apparently Snix and EL are friends or know each other from another game so i think that may be clouding Snix's judgement, although i hope not. Also, think about it, why would i claim to be a cop anyways if i were a scum that early, and of all things involve my scumbuddy with me? It makes no sense. I would have no motive, and if i were mafia i would just sit back and try to blend in....

[Netlava]

Only 2 possible scumteams from Snix's perspective: Toro & EL or me & Yankee.

First of all, it wouldn't be my side vs. someone else's. I know you're more experienced than me and I would lose. I would probably try to kill you.

This is WIFOM, though, maybe thats what I want you to think, etc.

WIFOM, indeed.

And @Netlava: Has the mere thought of Yankee being scum ever popped up into your head?

Notice how Toro is still trying to convince me. On the other hand, a townie wouldn't bother trying to convince scum.

I still don't see how your case against me is so strong. I essentially share Snix's reasoning, that one should hold off and wait on voting to make this day a little longer.

I also share Snix's sentiment that Toro is more likely to be cop based on your claims (and their circumstances). So what exactly incriminates me so much more than Snix?

...


Now its possible that Snix's town play is better than mine, in fact, highly likely since he's worlds more experienced and introduced me to this game. Still, I wouldn't know if that were the case because you haven't posted any case on me.

More buddying up to Snix.

I mean, we're even left with a very unlikely theoretical here, it might be that neither of you are cop and Toro is trying to save the real cop from claiming. (Note I don't think this is likely AT ALL, I'm fairly certain Toro is the real cop just from claim timing and play)

Random theory meant to confuse people.

---

Lastly, let's end with this gem from Toro:

Eldritch by not voting you're also saying that you're not hammering your scumbuddy.

Hmm... what could that possibly mean?

[Kdub]

Vote Count

Yankee (2)

- Toro, Eldritch Lord

Snix (0)

-

Netlava (0)

-

Toro (2)

- Yankee, Netlava

Eldritch Lord (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (1)

- Snix

5 players alive, 3 votes needed to lynch

Deadline: October 21, ~9:00 pm Pacific

[Eldritch Lord]

Lastly, let's end with this gem from Toro:

Eldritch by not voting you're also saying that you're not hammering your scumbuddy.

Hmm... what could that possibly mean?

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing. Easy point for you to manipulate.

[Toro]

Has the mere thought of Yankee being scum ever popped up into your head?

Notice how Toro is still trying to convince me. On the other hand, a townie wouldn't bother trying to convince scum.

Please explain to me how that's me trying to convince you. I just asked a simple question Netlava.

i have posted a legitimate reason already, and repeated it when someone else said the same thing. The reason that you have to be Toro's scum buddy is because if you were a townie, toro would not have claimed to be a cop to save you when i came out as the cop and voted for you. You see, if you were a townie, Toro would have just set back and waited for me to guide the town into a mislynch.

From my POV, Eldritch so far is town and you and Netlava are scum team. It's absolutely stupid for me to just idle my time and not counter-claim against you and watch Eldritch Lord get lynched. You want to know why Yankee?

IT'S LYNCH OR LOSE!!!

[Netlava]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing. Easy point for you to manipulate.

If you were voting for him, it'd be bussing. So by not voting for him, you're not bussing. Either way, both statements imply that you are Toro's scumpartner.

[Toro]

i have posted a legitimate reason already, and repeated it when someone else said the same thing. The reason that you have to be Toro's scum buddy is because if you were a townie, toro would not have claimed to be a cop to save you when i came out as the cop and voted for you. You see, if you were a townie, Toro would have just set back and waited for me to guide the town into a mislynch.

From my POV, Eldritch so far is town and you and Netlava are scum team. It's absolutely stupid for me to just idle my time and not counter-claim against you and watch Eldritch Lord get lynched. You want to know why Yankee?

IT'S LYNCH OR LOSE!!!

Netlava, can you please offer your opinion on this quote.

[Toro]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing. Easy point for you to manipulate.

If you were voting for him, it'd be bussing. So by not voting for him, you're not bussing. Either way, both statements imply that you are Toro's scumpartner.

Using this logic you're saying that anyone could've been a scumpartner to me, logic fail.

[Netlava]

Your quote was directed at EL.

[Eldritch Lord]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing. Easy point for you to manipulate.

If you were voting for him, it'd be bussing. So by not voting for him, you're not bussing. Either way, both statements imply that you are Toro's scumpartner.

Translation: I can twist the situation either way.

That's exactly what I was saying.

[Netlava]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing.

If you were voting for him, you would normally be either voting scum or mislynching town. However, your quote suggests that you are Toro's scumpartner because you call it "bussing."

[Toro]

Your quote was directed at EL.

No it's not, offer your opinion on the quote.

[Toro]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing.

If you were voting for him, you would normally be either voting scum or mislynching town. However, your quote suggests that you are Toro's scumpartner because you call it "bussing."

I think he used bussing in a hypothetical way.

[Netlava]

The quote, directed at EL, says:

[quote="Toro"]Eldritch by not voting you're also saying that you're not hammering your scumbuddy.[quote]

It assumes EL has a scumbuddy, and that by him not voting, he's not going to hammer him. At that time, the only player in a position to be hammered was Toro. So, the quote is saying that EL chose not to hammer Toro, his scumbuddy.

[Eldritch Lord]

Pointless, if I were voting for him then I'd just be bussing.

If you were voting for him, you would normally be either voting scum or mislynching town. However, your quote suggests that you are Toro's scumpartner because you call it "bussing."

Are you daft? I'm saying that you would call it bussing. Not that I would.

If I voted for Toro, it'd 99% likely be voting for Cop.

[Eldritch Lord]

The quote, directed at EL, says:

Eldritch by not voting you're also saying that you're not hammering your scumbuddy.

It assumes EL has a scumbuddy, and that by him not voting, he's not going to hammer him. At that time, the only player in a position to be hammered was Toro. So, the quote is saying that EL chose not to hammer Toro, his scumbuddy.

I believe this is from the perspective that he were scum. You aren't very good at managing perspectives, are you?

[Toro]

The quote, directed at EL, says:

Eldritch by not voting you're also saying that you're not hammering your scumbuddy.

It assumes EL has a scumbuddy, and that by him not voting, he's not going to hammer him. At that time, the only player in a position to be hammered was Toro. So, the quote is saying that EL chose not to hammer Toro, his scumbuddy.

No I just took something from his post (forgot which one) and used his logic against him. I'm not entirely ruling out a possible Yankee-EL scum connection, though I think that's a very slim chance that exists.

[Eldritch Lord]

Perspective continuity seems to be a huge issue for your playstyle Netlava. I have yet to see substantial casebuilding on your part, you think you can afford to be lazy because you're "confirmed" vanilla?

Think again.

[Netlava]

Lol, why bother with 2 confirmed scum trying to twist my words.

If any townies have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Toro]

Perspective continuity seems to be a huge issue for your playstyle Netlava. I have yet to see substantial casebuilding on your part, you think you can afford to be lazy because you're "confirmed" vanilla?

Think again.

Oh snap crackle pop rice crispies!

[Eldritch Lord]

Lol, why bother with 2 confirmed scum trying to twist my words.

If any townies have any questions, feel free to ask.

Confirmed scum, you haven't a case, how ON EARTH, am I confirmed scum?

You haven't even posted why you believe Yankee's claim over Toro's.